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The UK a partnership

of equals?

wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
3 days ago
Well apparently not after the supreme courts ruling yesterday, Westminster has to give permission for a referendum on independence.

Regardless of whether you think Scottish independence a good thing or not, is it right that they should not be allowed to have one? Westminster seems to have all the angles sewn up so tightly that a freedom given in one act is cancelled by another. That is despite many senior politicans, believing that Scottish independence should happen when its obious that its the settled will of the Scottish people, only the Scots arn't allowed to have a referendum to show what thier will is.

It all feels a bit colonial to me, what do you lot think?
lindy
lindy Female
2 days ago
D&D

Domination and dictatorship!!
Colonel_Blink
Colonel_Blink Male
2 days ago
If the Scottish gain independence then they will be free to vote on independence.
HotOrWot
HotOrWot Male
2 days ago
The irony.
Minnie-the-Minx
Minnie-the-Minx Female
2 days ago
Can it be colonialism when it was a Scottish king who took over England in the first place?
Pboro Trevor
Pboro Trevor Male
2 days ago
The Scots and Welsh receive more money per head from our government. So give them both independence then more money for us.
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
2 days ago
Do the Welsh seriously want independence?
Minnie-the-Minx
Minnie-the-Minx Female
2 days ago
I think they always wanted it, didn't they?  
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
2 days ago
Theres a growing independence movement in Wales currently about 20% support for independence.

The royal families of Europe were and still are pretty much related, but the political union of England and Scotland didn't take place until 100 years after James IV and I, Wales and Ireland were conquered which is why they have the same laws as England, Scotland kept its own education and legal systems after the Union which Wales and Ireland were not allowed to do.

There have been other acts between the Act of Union of course, but all have kept a level of independence and speration for Scotland not seen in other devolved nations. The main point for me is that it is now clear that the union is not voluntary, but enforced from Westminster.
Greencare
Greencare Female
2 days ago
What would Wales gain from independence?
Samx
Samx Male
2 days ago
This is a leftover from the imperialism of the British. The last/first referendum in Scotland was stitched up by the Westminster politicians, by promising bribes which, in the end, never materialised. More and more people realise the con of Brexit, leading to Scotland, Wales and Ireland leaving England eventually, which will end up as a third world country.
Andromeda
Andromeda Female
2 days ago
Top post!
Top post!
What would Wales gain from independence?

Whatever else is discussed that it the one question which counts. Wales doesn't want to break away from the rest of the UK as the UK did with the EU which happens when you only look at the negaives and ignore the positives.
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
Yesterday
As I said previously I started this thread in hope of talking about how the Union does not appear to be legally voluntary.
Minnie-the-Minx
Minnie-the-Minx Female
Yesterday
I don't know enough about it to comment in a productive manner.  
Templar2013
Templar2013 Male
Yesterday
The UK Parliament retains parliamentary sovereignty over the United Kingdom as a whole.

So Scotland can't declare itself independent but UK Parliament could declare Scotland independent if it so wished?

The people of Scotland held a referendum in 2014 and voted to stay as part of the United Kingdom.
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
Yesterday
Thanks for the statement of the obvious Templar.
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
Yesterday
If you think it was an obvious statement wonderoushen that will not be the case for everyone.
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
6 minutes ago
What would Wales gain from Independence, is a good question and not one easily answered, I think its about much, much more than money, yes there would be financial consquenses of course there would be. But I think what would be gained is a sense of being a nation in its own right, with the ability to take descisions on the world stage as well as at home. I suspect that if indpendence ever did happen, there would be a period of excitement followed by a bit of a flop as there wouldn't be England to blame for everything.

I think just as interesting a question is what would England do if the UK broke up, in one sense it would just go on as normal, but psychologically I think it would be big thing, England hasn't been just England for 800 hundred odd years now, so much of Englishness seems to have been based on being conquerers of other smaller and sometimes bigger nations. If that was taken out of the equations, what would Englishness be?

As it is right now, only about 20% of Welsh people support independence, but lots more support more devolution. I wonder if more devolution was genuinely offered in Scotland would they still want independence? If you only give people a choice of the status quo or independence then for many independence will be the default option, because the status quo isn't working.


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