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Is this the beginning of the end of the war in Ukraine?

Has Putin cowed down to Chinese and Indian pressure?

On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
4 months ago
I've not seen this angle broadcast or written about anywhere in the media or online but could Putin have rushed to hold a referendum and absorb 4 regions of Ukraine as some desperate, (or wishful thinking) idea that he can claim to have ejected the Nazis and rescued a grateful population from that (mostly fictional) Nazi threat?

OK. Of course most reasonable folk understand that the referendum, its fake result and the whole war has all manifest from the fantasies of one very disturbed and misinformed individual but threats of Putin using his newly claimed and absorbed areas of Russia as a reason to start a nuclear war if those regions were now attacked, could we seeing an end to further Russian encroachment on remaining Ukrainian territory? For now, ar least?

Of course Ukraine and the West should not stop attacking the invaders, especially in the regions now claimed to be Russian territory by a desperately cornered (and losing) Putin BUT ... well ... do you think Putin is desperately trying to backtrack and retreat without losing more face than he already has?

His Chinese and Indian friends recently made it very, very clear that they are less than enthusiastic with Mr Putin's war so are we seeing him attempting to please the few friends of Russia that he still has?
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
4 months ago
Which friends are those OTB, even Iran has said he's gone to far, I suppose North Korea could be said to still be his friend, I think if I were him I'd be more worried about my so called friends than my known enemies!
NoneOfTheAbove
NoneOfTheAbove Male
4 months ago
Sounds to me like the fake referendums in the 4 regions of the Ukraine with a near 100% result in favour to become Russian has escalated the chance that the war in Ukraine is going to become very much more dangerous. As now Putin has publicly said that Russia will defend with everything in it's power to protect their lands and people, which now include those regions. Whether the rest of the world accepts it or not from what we're led to believe as far as Russians are concerned he can do no wrong.    Now on the back of that Ukraine is now seeking fast track membership of NATO which brings a whole new level of tension to the table.And as we've seen this week they're not even averse to cutting off their nose to spite their face, by sabotaging the Nord Stream 1 & 2 gas pipelines.      
Maglorian
Maglorian Male
4 months ago
Listen without prejudice, if you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0scsGQqkdbI&ab_channel=iEarlGrey
Maglorian
Maglorian Male
4 months ago
Bump!
Pixiefluff
Pixiefluff Female
4 months ago
9 minutes to go.. 
Pixiefluff
Pixiefluff Female
4 months ago
It's suggested in The Independent that the responsibility of the sabotage on the gas pipes are the responsibility of the U.S not Russia.https://www.independent.co.uk/img/shortcut-icons/icon-192x192.png
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
4 months ago
Sounds to me like the fake referendums in the 4 regions of the Ukraine with a near 100% result in favour to become Russian has escalated the chance that the war in Ukraine is going to become very much more dangerous. As now Putin has publicly said that Russia will defend with everything in it's power to protect their lands and people, which now include those regions. Whether the rest of the world accepts it or not from what we're led to believe as far as Russians are concerned he can do no wrong. Now on the back of that Ukraine is now seeking fast track membership of NATO which brings a whole new level of tension to the table.And as we've seen this week they're not even averse to cutting off their nose to spite their face, by sabotaging the Nord Stream 1 & 2 gas pipelines.

Sounds the same to me.
Maglorian
Maglorian Male
4 months ago
"It's suggested in The Independent that the responsibility of the sabotage on the gas pipes are the responsibility of the U.S not Russia.https://www.independent.co.uk/img/shortcut-icons/icon-192x192.png" (Pixiefluff)

Who gains to lose is the answer. Destroying Europe's supply of energy and enslaving us to American energy, is the goal of our overlords. Geo political games by a failing and dying neo liberal system. Russia is defending itself from hegemonic pillaging kleptomaniacs. The next agreement signed should be the New Minsk agreement. To end the hurting and killing games, funded by us, the tax payers.

It's a shame good people can be fooled into carrying hate and blowing the bugle for the greedy.
Molly
Molly Female
4 months ago
I've not seen this angle broadcast or written about anywhere in the media or online but could Putin have rushed to hold a referendum and absorb 4 regions of Ukraine as some desperate, (or wishful thinking) idea that he can claim to have ejected the Nazis and rescued a grateful population from that (mostly fictional) Nazi threat?

OK. Of course most reasonable folk understand that the referendum, its fake result and the whole war has all manifest from the fantasies of one very disturbed and misinformed individual but threats of Putin using his newly claimed and absorbed areas of Russia as a reason to start a nuclear war if those regions were now attacked, could we seeing an end to further Russian encroachment on remaining Ukrainian territory? For now, ar least?

Of course Ukraine and the West should not stop attacking the invaders, especially in the regions now claimed to be Russian territory by a desperately cornered (and losing) Putin BUT ... well ... do you think Putin is desperately trying to backtrack and retreat without losing more face than he already has?

His Chinese and Indian friends recently made it very, very clear that they are less than enthusiastic with Mr Putin's war so are we seeing him attempting to please the few friends of Russia that he still has?


Putin wants to reverse his extermination of Ukrainians but for his own survival not through any though of ending the senseless slaughter of the innocent.
Pixiefluff
Pixiefluff Female
4 months ago
Finland have closed the borders to Russian families trying to flee to safety.
Molly
Molly Female
4 months ago
Hasn't Finland closed its borders to Russian tourists in keeping with neighbouring countries.
Pixiefluff
Pixiefluff Female
4 months ago
Refusing anyone who doesn't have a visa, that's hardly fair if families are fleeing war.
Molly
Molly Female
4 months ago
I don't think it is wrong for countries around Russia to stop tourists travelling. It's another problem created by Putin when he invaded Ukraine and began killing off innocent people.
Maglorian
Maglorian Male
4 months ago
Poor Molly thinks with blame and limited understanding. Problems are created by indifference. Ukrainian Nazis slaughtering 14000 "innocent" Russian citizens living in the Donbas region of Ukraine from 2014, was the problem and the West disallowing negotiation was the cause.

As Pixie said, "Russian families trying to flee to safety." Human people escaping an orchestrated conflict by our ruling elites, but alas; through the eyes of the ignorant, some people are less equal than others.
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
4 months ago
I can't see in who's interest it is to sabotage the gas pipelines, I can't see that its in Russias interest to do so, but stories about America doing it seem equally ridiculous. Russia has cut its gas supplies to Europe, so there should be as much gas flowing through the pipelines anyway.


Has anyone thought of a mechanical explaination for the escaping gas? If not a mechanical failure, then what about seismic problems on the sea bed?

But I see Mags is talking his usual load of old wallop.
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
4 months ago
"I can't see in who's interest it is to sabotage the gas pipelines, I can't see that its in Russias interest to do so, but stories about America doing it seem equally ridiculous."

There have been a series of attacks at several points along the pipeline so we can dismiss any random mechanical or seismic failure as being responsible.

Why attack the piplelines anyway?

It is a psychological attack very similar to the last initiative of announcing that the pipelines were first, being closed for maintainance and second, eventually shut down permanently. Last time, that shut down threat was designed to spook the markets just as they had started to recover a little bit and this time, the attack on the pipelines was to deliver a psychological blow to the countries of Europe in the lead up to winter and the already percieved shortages of energy likely to be on their way.

The explosions are designed to pressurise individual countries to try to break the resolve of the pact of European countries still all firmly sticking together against Putin and Russia.

Putin wants to devide and conquer so spooking the West with these incidents suits him perfectly.
Samx
Samx Male
4 months ago
It seems that the deliberate (and of course, illegal) annexation of the four parts of Ukraine by Russia is extremely dangerous! If the Ukraine attempts to reintegrates these areas, Putin will claim that the fatherland is, with the help of the west, being attacked and he might well use ABC weapons in revenge. (A = atomic, B = biological and C = chemical). He is now trust so much into a corner, that he is losing mental control, and as a despot, he seems to have free rain to even press the red button = WWIIII, because the Americans will respond in kind. It is not uncommon for dictators (In the past) to use the burnt earth principles (Hitler, Stalin, etc.)
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
3 months ago
Ukraine have retaken another city today in the Donbas.

You could be right OTB, but it just seems an incredibly pointless thing to do.
Pixiefluff
Pixiefluff Female
3 months ago
https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/88062I found this link from the Carnegie Endowment For International Peace site. It gives a very good non bias viewpoint here on the attacks on the Nord Stream pipelines, there is no evidence at all as yet of who's responsible for these attacks, but pipeline attacks are not uncommon, even cyber attacks on pipelines happen and have happened in America by hackers demanding money. January 2022 pipelines in Turkey were also attacked. And an outside group admitted responsibility for that. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/19/turkey-pipeline-operational-after-fire-extinguished


Western governments have not made a formal finding of responsibility for this week’s sabotage attacks on two Russian underwater pipelines carrying natural gas to Europe. While all of the evidence is being carefully reviewed, it seems reasonable to expect that some of it will soon be declassified. In the meantime, NATO, the European Union, and key figures like International Energy Agency director Fatih Birol are not holding back about the identity of the culprit. “It is very obvious (…) who was behind this issue,” the latter said on September 29. At the same time, Russian officials are unsurprisingly placing the blame on the West and have convened a UN Security Council session to discuss the matter.
Pixiefluff
Pixiefluff Female
3 months ago
The elimination of Nord Stream’s gas supply capacity from the European energy equation also strengthens the Ukrainian hand. Ukraine’s fear ever since 2014 has been that if forced to choose between Russian gas and support for Ukraine, Europe might choose the former and abandon Ukraine, and as long as non-Ukrainian supply routes existed, Ukraine would not be able to stop Russia from supplying Europe. This was one of the reasons why Ukraine opposed the construction of Nord Stream 2.





https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/88062
Pixiefluff
Pixiefluff Female
3 months ago
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/02/23/statement-by-president-biden-on-nord-stream-2/This statement by Biden was given February 23rd 2022, its on the Whitehouse website... 

Since Russia began deploying troops to the Ukrainian border, the United States has worked closely with our Allies and partners to deliver a strong, unified response. As I said when I met with Chancellor Scholz earlier this month, Germany has been a leader in that effort, and we have closely coordinated our efforts to stop the Nord Stream 2 pipeline if Russia further invaded Ukraine.
NeverSayNever
NeverSayNever Female
3 months ago
"I can't see in who's interest it is to sabotage the gas pipelines, I can't see that its in Russias interest to do so, but stories about America doing it seem equally ridiculous."

There have been a series of attacks at several points along the pipeline so we can dismiss any random mechanical or seismic failure as being responsible.

Why attack the piplelines anyway?

It is a psychological attack very similar to the last initiative of announcing that the pipelines were first, being closed for maintainance and second, eventually shut down permanently. Last time, that shut down threat was designed to spook the markets just as they had started to recover a little bit and this time, the attack on the pipelines was to deliver a psychological blow to the countries of Europe in the lead up to winter and the already percieved shortages of energy likely to be on their way.

The explosions are designed to pressurise individual countries to try to break the resolve of the pact of European countries still all firmly sticking together against Putin and Russia.

Putin wants to devide and conquer so spooking the West with these incidents suits him perfectly.


You're one of the free who can see right through Putinnand his murderous plans
NeverSayNever
NeverSayNever Female
3 months ago
Putin wants to reverse his extermination of Ukrainians but for his own survival not through any though of ending the senseless slaughter of the innocent

Putin and his apologists have been embarrassed by the scam referendums which fool nobody. Putin's slaughter of the innocents in Ukraine have proven he is not sane!
Maglorian
Maglorian Male
3 months ago
Michael Parenti explains nearly everything America does in one sentence:

"It is the heart of US policy, ladies and gentlemen, to use fascism to preserve capitalism while claiming to be saving democracy from communism."

Parenti is a master of cutting through the chaotic complexity of history to find the simple truth at the core of it. Recorded in 1986 but completely relevant today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14&ab_channel=JamesThompson


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