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The Budget

What a budget!!

jpv
jpv Male
2 months ago
Many changes in one go

Not sure what the impact will be, but I am sure some will benefit in a big way.

Amazing how different the views can be from the same party.

I wonder as they have limited time before the next election, they decided to take a gamble, win or lose?
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
2 months ago
No real help for the poor in the here and now as far as I can make out but Tories and anyone 'at the top' on a proper decent salary or significant renumeration will gain £10,000 - £60,000 a year in tax savings ... and the rest.

I was glad to see that euntrepeneurs and those involved with innovation and prototyping, etc, may benefit but really? Its just a bung to the voters this government wants to come to their rescue by the time the next election comes around.
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
2 months ago
(SP) entrepreneurs
SQL
SQL Male
2 months ago
I'm beginning to think we need to ask for Boris to be reinstated !!

I don't know which lottery these people got their fiscal ideas from but it certainly isn't logical or sensible.

I think Truss may be trying to outdo Thatcher and knows she won't around when the consequences hit.

Reduced stamp duty == increased house price inflation.
Reduced taxes . . . . . == lower income to the treasury (thus greater borrowing).
Greater borrowing at a time of higher base rates == greater cost to the treasury.

They say they are relying on growth to fund all this shortfall. That's similar to telling your mortgage provider you expect to be earning more in 20 years time so you must qualify for a bigger mortgage !!

SQL
Minnie-the-Minx
Minnie-the-Minx Female
2 months ago
I haven't seen the details, but from what you say, is it a sop to the masses, to keep them all on line while they finish off the nasty stuff that they are doing in the background?
G-O-W
G-O-W Female
2 months ago
"The rich get rich and .... " you know the rest!
BOYDEL
BOYDEL Male
2 months ago
As Charles Dickens flagged up a long time ago - there is a tipping point in each household's spending patterns - spend more than earnings and you get poorer - but spend a bit less and you become a saver (and thus slowly get richer).

Humans are of course genetically programmed to procreate - and kids cost money - and limit opportunities to work.

Many young adult couples these days who are aspiring to buy a home - are realising that they often have a stark choice between becoming home owners or starting a family - few can afford to do both.

DCLG say that 75% of FTBs are now couples - often with 2 full time wages and thus able to garner a higher mortgage.

The 2013 MMR also penalises borrowers with kids as they are an obvious ongoing cost - and such borrowers have their loans capped at a lower level than other childless borrowers with same household earnings. Same applies to borrowers with eg car loans etc.

So today's young adults need strict financial self discipline pretty much as soon as they start work - failing which they will end up in Rentals for their adult life - and pay out 3 times as much for housing compared to those buying like for like homes in early adulthood.

Looking at even Social Rents in SE England over past 25 years - a Tenant would have paid more in Rent than it would have cost to buy a like for like property with even a 95% mortgage.

In my location (for illustrative purposes) a 50 year old Social Tenant in an older property at Social Rent level will be paying around £700 pcm rent for a 3 bed property - but based on the 2022 5% rent increase extrapolated over next 30 odd years of likely survival - rents would be £1400 pcm by age 65 and £2800 pcm by age 80. That rent would total around £630,000 over next 30 years with annual 5% pa increases.

That may sound less than credible - but average Social Rents (across whole of UK) have increased by a factor of 20 since 1979!

Tenants ages of course have no bearing on rents charged - but it does show the enormous amount of rent facing a middle aged tenant in the cheapest rental sector - and thus the massive incentive for properly informed young adults to become home owners.

But in most cases genetic programming and brain are pulling in opposite directions.
Mazer
Mazer Male
2 months ago
I think how the budget will be received will depend on whether the masses watch the headlines or give the policies time to work. Truss has certainly taken a big chance and is spending a lot of money to help those disadvantaged but this will probably be swept under the carpet by the headlines about helping the rich.
As a Labour voter I would like to see the Conservative gone from office but I do think Truss has been brave in taking such a different stance to Johnson.
G-O-W
G-O-W Female
2 months ago
I'm not expecting a bonus next year, regardless.  Our loses are of epic proportion! I do consider myself lucky to have a job, working with people I like. 
BOYDEL
BOYDEL Male
2 months ago
For many workers over recent decades - bonuses per se - were a ploy used by Employers to lower the rate of annual baseline pay increases - and in turn to lower FS pension costs.
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
2 months ago
By what mandate is Truss taking us on this fiscal rollercoaster ride? I think its maddness, we know trickle down economics don't work, the rich just get richer and the less well off stay less well off.
BOYDEL
BOYDEL Male
2 months ago
Without the aggregate Govt handouts/grants of recent weeks/months - even the poorest households would be facing £300 pcm energy bills from next week and no costs of living related grants to offset those bigger bills.

Workers would be paying 5% more in Income Tax and 10.4% higher NI contributions.

Many businesses would fold due to energy costs and thousands would end up jobless .

Yes we are borrowing from the future - just as most nations do when facing emergencies such as wars etc to fund.

It was only in 2007 that UK finally repaid the WW2 war debts - and it was 184 years after 1815 end of Napoleonic wars that we repaid those debts.
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
2 months ago
"By what mandate is Truss taking us on this fiscal rollercoaster ride?"

That's exactly what I was wondering.

I mean; wasn't it just 160,000 Tory members who voted in the current PM? And with that done, instead of following the original Tory manifesto as she promised while running for the roll of PM, she borrows ... how many billions of £'s on the tax payers behalf?

Answer? £200 Billion. ($226 billion)

And that £200 billion borrowing spree follows in the heels of the borrowed £10 billion cost of living payouts and the countless billions the UK gov borrowed for the Covid19 crisis. (That was at least £299bn in 2021 alone - the highest level of borrowing since 1946)

I mean, Jeez, even before this latest borrowing spree, the UK was paying up to £8.2 billion a month in interest.
-
And Truss claims to be channeling the spirit of Margaret Thatcher; Margaret Thatcher being a woman who once said, "If you've only got £10 in your purse, you shouldn't be spending £20 on shopping." (I'm paraphrasing in using that example but I'm sure you appreciate the point I am raising).

So ... sure ... How can you get voted into power on 160,000 votes and immediately borrow TWO HUNDRED BILLION £s... not two hundred million £s ... but two hundred billion £s???
Samx
Samx Male
2 months ago
To whom do we owe all the borrowings we make?
If interest rates rise, so is debt. Who is going to repay it? By when is it going to be repaid? Ever?
I suspect that a lot of the promised money it’s just been printed like there is no tomorrow.
Printing money equals inflation, even hyper inflation. This in turn will end in the collapse of the economy.
No matter what happens, huge amounts of enterprises, like shops and restaurants, will be closed by the end of next year.
New enterprises will be unable to takeoff. Some signs are already evident today.
Every Tory government in history has supported the rich at the expense to the poor. The new one is no exception, except for some cosmetics. As they say, a leopard can’t change its spots.
Neros1954
Neros1954 Male
2 months ago
The Tories spending money like a socialist government is not what any one expects. It began during Covid which helped protect us during that crisis but we didn't expect the assistance to continue at such great expense.
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
2 months ago
Borrowing during covid to support the economy and protect people from destitution was the right thing to do and governments around the world did the same, helping people cope with the massive rise in energy and food bills is also a good thing. What isn't a good thing is the way the money borrowed is being spent, where's the investment? How will this bring economic growth?


Borrowing money like this should be used to make a real difference to peoples lives, like helping with home insulation, more efficient heating and hot water systems, etc.

We need a proper industrial and food and farming strategy, we need long term planing and investment, not tax cuts for the wealthy, the poorest tax payers will gain about £100pa from all this tax cutting, mortgage rates going up has put £100pm on bills

We also need investment in skills training, not just for young people but older people too, to many peple in thier 40's and 50's are effectively scrapped because they can't access or afford retraining.

I think we're about to see a strange reversal where Labour become the party of fiscal responsibility and and the Tories the party of fantasy borrow and spend. I think we need a general election and we need it fast.
NeverSayNever
NeverSayNever Female
2 months ago
The Tories spending money like a socialist government is not what any one expects. It began during Covid which helped protect us during that crisis but we didn't expect the assistance to continue at such great expense.

It was a surprise but just as the Labour party has moved to the right the conservative party has moved to the left. This should be good for everyone with both parties on the middle ground fighting for better conditions for the vast majority of us ordinary working class people.
ToBeAdvised
ToBeAdvised Male
2 months ago
Still it all gives "Mr Sit on the Fence" a chance to have different things to say "you don't want to do it like that" about. 
BOYDEL
BOYDEL Male
2 months ago
Most of the UK population would be up in arms if Govt had ignored the cost pf living crisis and offered no financial help.

Likewise if that help was only on offer subject to say cuts in services/benefit levels etc - or massive tax increases which lower incomes further..

So basically if people want their lives to be minimally affected by the cost of living issues - it follows that only Govt borrowing would be acceptable - ie the "least worse" of the available options.
BOYDEL
BOYDEL Male
2 months ago
There are of course many complaining that the higher earners are getting a far bigger benefit from the tax cuts - but only 1% of UK workers earn as much as £150k.

Many people will be unaware - that at such an earnings level those workers get NIL Personal Tax Allowance - so they will be paying 47% Tax/NI on an extra £12700 pa.

Those high earners also get no Child Benefit - that is eradicated where earnings of one parent are at £60k and begins reducing from £50k

Pension contributions which attract Tax Relief are also capped at a far lower percentage of gross earnings.

Plus even at £100k earnings the total Tax/NI is around £33,000 pa
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
2 months ago
The mini budget was definitely a gamble but maybe we needed something to get the country back on track. Listening to a BBC phone in today which involved around a dozen experts who worked in industries relevant to banking, interest rates and economy was interesting. The independent opinions were very split on whether it would work but all could nderstand the intentions.
Kimjongun
Kimjongun Male
2 months ago
I agree with SQL, except for the return of Boris.

Are these idiots trying to crash the economy?
Is it incompetence or deliberate?
Neros1954
Neros1954 Male
2 months ago
The mini budget was definitely a gamble but maybe we needed something to get the country back on track. Listening to a BBC phone in today which involved around a dozen experts who worked in industries relevant to banking, interest rates and economy was interesting. The independent opinions were very split on whether it would work but all could nderstand the intentions.

Time will tell. A chancy strategy at best but as you say expert opinion is divided.


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