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Do you have long and meaningful conversations

Youthful_Yosef
Youthful_Yosef Male
22 days ago
With your friends or colleagues.
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
22 days ago
No and its something I do miss a bit, I've learned to do without them, the nearest I come is on here.
eurostar
eurostar Female
22 days ago
Goodness yes, both work colleagues and friends
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
22 days ago
Daily ... and it is quite common for a stranger to walk down the passage with a PC related issue ... and to still be chatting with me 10 - 20 - 30 minutes later about something deep and meaningful or entirely different ... and some folk, (male or female) wander down as strangers and, after one visit, morph into new friends who wander down again a week or a month later just to see how I'm doing.

Having been 'abandoned' by my ex wife Jackie and my now grown up children, (since getting the prostate cancer), my whole outlook to my biz has shifted, and I now welcome customers (new and old) and even tourists and visitors just wandering down to take a photo (or being nosey), as welcome distractions that add positively to my day.

And I have even been known to give folks a tour, showing them the 16th century flagstones, the old workshops, (my outhouses) and the extremely long garden - pointing out that all such ancient dwellings in the town are designed to be very long and narrow buildings and gardens purely to facilitate the historical making of nets and ropes; with such an architectural footprint aiding in allowing really long fishing nets and rope to be stretched all the way down the gardens, throughout the length of the buildings or even across the streets and pavements - which are also extremely wide for that same reason ... with my town having had a royal charter to exclusively produce such nets and ropes for royalty for its ships, buildings and armies for several hundred years. (Over the years, the Delorean car, the space shuttle, Wimbledon, Lords, The Crucible, camoflage netting for the army and just about any net of worth in any sport or pastime has been contracted from the netmaking companies of this town.

Today, the making of fishing nets is secondary to the making of safety nets for the construction industry but ... the best nets in all the world or anything?

They'll probably have been manufactured here!

I never used to be this accomodating but today, instead of cursing 'grockle' holiday makers for tresspassing, I laugh, chat and show them round!
Jeff
Jeff Male
22 days ago
Here are extracts from some of my emails to my maths & physics teacher. He disagrees for me, but generally his responses were verbal and I don't give them here. Some members of MSE know some physics and they might like to answer my points.

01-Jul-22:-
Thank you for your email, especially as I have been concerned about my example of indistinguishability of twins and wondered whether to contact you.

I agree that the number of combinations of letters in TAT (or EMMA) is reduced by the letters T (or M) being indistinguishable, so there are only 3 combinations ATT & TAT & TTA, rather than 6 combinations if the Ts were distinguishable. But that is by definition of a letter. It is not the same as the physical situation of two twins which are identical in every way, in a room, having a macrostate of one standing and one sitting. You can clearly see the two twins in a room, one standing and one sitting, and it is a simple classical situation.
It is not a quantum situation in which you need high-power equipment, and uncertainties prevail, observation changes the state, and everything is weird anyway.
So even though you can’t tell which twin is standing and which one is sitting, it isn’t advanced philosophy to say that 2 microstates exist. (You can even watch them change from one microstate to the other as the standing one sits and the sitting one stands.) To deny that is like saying that the moon doesn’t exist when we don’t look at it – something like that might apply at the quantum level but (ignoring huge improbability) it doesn’t apply to the classical level of twins in a room.

01-Jul-22:-
Even at the molecular level, (but not as small as quantum particles), if 100 molecules are in a microstate in which 1 has non-zero energy E and 99 have energy 0, (ignoring zero point energy), I think that it is correct to say that there are 100 microstates because any 1 of them can have the E. Even if all the molecules looked the same and were indistinguishable, I wouldn’t say that there is only 1 microstate. Do you agree?

08-Jul-22:-
Thank you for the maths/physics session today. But I still think that one different molecule added to a lot of identical molecules (without an explosion etc) shouldn’t make much difference. There is confusion between potential states and actual states - when you say that 10 identical ping-pong balls have 1 microstate, you don’t consider what they could be doing instead. We’ll see in later pages of Schroeder.

You may like “Olympiad level counting: How many subsets of {1,…,2000} have a sum divisible by 5?” https://youtu.be/bOXCLR3Wric which includes combinatorics & generating functions & complex numbers to solve a problem involving a finite number of integers.
Jeff
Jeff Male
22 days ago
10-Jul-22:-
I don’t want to spend more of your valuable time on the issue if you don’t want to, but in a tennis match with identical twins having identical names, so the scoreboard doesn’t distinguish between them, there are still 2 possible results as to which one wins that match: i.e. the person on the left of a photo and the person on the right.

10-Jul-22:-
There are two microstates for identical twins having identical names, one having higher energy (or whatever it took to win that match) than the other, not one microstate.

I was wrong that the scoreboard doesn’t distinguish them. Their positions are distinct, and the scoreboard has their names as “on the left of that photo” and “on the right of that photo”. But even without a scoreboard or a referee or an audience or a photo, the twins know which one won. There are 2 possibilities.

10-Jul-22:-
Thank you for spending so much time on this.

Throughout our correspondence on identical twins or large (non-quantum) molecules, I have been saying that there are 2 microstates for that 1 macrostate, but you seem to have been saying that there was only 1 microstate. Schroeder pages 69 to 71 shows Planck’s constant so considers quantum mechanics, which involves many kinds of weirdness, whereas I wanted to restrict it to classical considerations to clarify the ideas.

Although on 8 July you and Ian seemed to say that to resolve Gibbs’ Paradox etc imply that one must go into QM. But I doubt that some problems about entropy of classical molecules lead to Schrödinger’s equation & Heisenberg uncertainties etc of smaller “particles”.

Also you avoided answering my “common sense” saying that different 1 molecule suddenly added (without an explosion) to 100 (or 10 to power 23) identical molecules shouldn’t suddenly drastically alter the statistical properties such as entropy of them. The number of microstates shouldn’t suddenly jump from 1 to 100 (or 10 to power 23), with possibly great consequences just because of 1 different molecule.

Incidentally, in the tennis players example, I was going to say that in the absence of external observers “the universe knows” that there are 2 microstates, (or a theist might say “God knows”!), but I felt that was too abstract. And I don’t think that the properties of classical objects depend on someone having the consciousness to know about them. (I must look up Kant’s “ding an sich”!)

Without getting into philosophy that is too deep for my little brain, this reminds me of the age old question of whether a tree falling in a deserted forest makes a sound, to which my answer is:-
- If you define sound as a creature hearing it, then it doesn’t make a sound;
- If you define sound as air vibrations, then it does make a sound, (or more cautiously I have no reason to believe that the air doesn’t vibrate).
Even if there is no observer to see the identical twins or the identical large molecules, I think that the number of their microstates is not equal to 1.
Jeff
Jeff Male
22 days ago
27-Jul-22:-
I hope that you can talk a bit about gases made of very large molecules that microscopes can easily see and track, so they are distinguishable.

28-Jul-22:-
I would like us to consider whether coloured ping-pong balls bouncing around have different thermodynamics from identically coloured ping-pong balls. They could be compared in 2 bingo machines. I would think that they produce the same properties of pressure & temperature etc. This is because classically I think that even identical ping-pong balls are distinguishable, and identifiable by their position at a certain time as shown in a photo, and trackable.

For very small particles, quantum mechanical distinguishability is not so simple. But I would like to clarify classical concepts.

Do big molecules obey classical laws?

28-Aug-22:-
Doubtless you’re right about indistinguishability, because the maths works. But I still don’t understand the logic.
Minnie-the-Minx
Minnie-the-Minx Female
22 days ago
I have neither.  I talk to myself most of the time.  At least no-one argues with me then.
eurostar
eurostar Female
22 days ago
So we talking conversations or emails here? 
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
22 days ago
"So we talking conversations or emails here?"

Exactly, Euro.

Jeff. You're disqualified. :-)

Email communication is no different to "chatting" on Midsummer in the examples you've provided.

For all we know, in real life, you could be a basketcase incapable of stringing two sentences together in a social or intimate conversation.

All you've done by including your correspondence is what you already do here; that is, work your hardest to try to appear 'clever'.

I don't think I've ever witnessed the 'Jeff' persona appear warm and natural or vulnerable or show any emotion or an emotive side.

I think chatting in a deep and meaningful way involves a degree of passion and enthusiasm; two extremely attractive traits.

When I earth with another human a bit like me, we just erupt into a gatling gun series of comments that end up being an amazing experience; a bit like the spaceship in the Close Encounters of the Third Kind movie that engages in that extra-ordinary musical exchange with the scientists. :-)
tsunamiwarrior
tsunamiwarrior Male
22 days ago
I talk a lot to the homeless guys living on the streets and they often thank me for taking the time to talk to them but I do it for my own satisfaction as much as theirs. I like nothing more than hearing genuine life stories and when I'm not with them I tend to be quite busy and don't get time to sit around chatting.
Pboro Trevor
Pboro Trevor Male
21 days ago
Someone once said a long and meaningful discussion with your wife is an argument
Minnie-the-Minx
Minnie-the-Minx Female
21 days ago
That's really sad.
JustKatie
JustKatie Female
21 days ago
There are a lot of people who rarely have an opportunity to talk or discuss things and conversations can mean a lot to them.
RAACH84
RAACH84 Female
21 days ago
I do talk a lot and I think my daughters will be the same. We often get into conversations at home and talk into the early hours about everything. Often starting on one subject and ending on something completely unrelated. I talk to strangers and clients at work but they seem to like the friendly chatty approach.
Jeff
Jeff Male
21 days ago
Correction: "He disagrees for me" should be "He disagrees with me". He goes along with the textbooks.

Eurostar: "So we talking conversations or emails here?"
Many millions of people, including me, have conversations by email.

On-The-Beach: "All you've done by including your correspondence is what you already do here; that is, work your hardest to try to appear 'clever'."
In numerous MSE posts I have written "I don't know ...".
My posts of 12-Sep-22 include "Some members of MSE know some physics and they might like to answer my points. ... the maths works. But I still don’t understand the logic."
You have sometimes complained that MSE threads aren't deep enough for you. This thread is called "Do you have long and meaningful conversations With your friends or colleagues" and rather than just answer "Yes I do", I gave an example with my teacher whom I regard as a friend and a colleague, (although without showing his responses), and invited MSE members to explain where I'm wrong. Some interested non-physicicsts can also follow the arguments.
I have very often contributed to lighter threads.

In Blackjack's thread "Critical Thinking The dangers thinking can cause" midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=195229&page=1 (started by Blackjack), which MSE Admin recently deleted with many other uncontroversial threads, my 20-Feb-21 post includes (rest of post on request) "Critical thinking is essential for progress in science, where ideas are challenged, the Royal Institution motto is "Nullius in verba" ("Take nobody's word for it"), and Nobel Prizes are awarded for disproving what was previously thought. Most religions discourage critical thinking, (although I admire preachers such as Mike Winger who address difficult questions, while I disagree with their answers), and cults try to prevent their members from looking at opposing views. I have many questions and friendly arguments with my maths and physics teacher about what he teaches (e.g. 2 days ago where a book includes "The effective potential energy is the real potential energy, together with a contribution from the angular kinetic energy") - sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong".

On-The-Beach: "I don't think I've ever witnessed the 'Jeff' persona appear warm and natural or vulnerable or show any emotion or an emotive side."
I just looked in my notes for the word "upset" and here are 2 examples:-
In Blackjack's thread (now deleted) "Can you please help Looking for evidence" midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=195116&page=1 on 05-Feb-22 after V... posted "Two of my very best friends died from CV19 in the last 14 days....... it was horrible...", I posted "That's very sad and must be extremely upsetting."
In thread "On the subject of bullying, gaslighting etc." midsummerseve.com/thread/199999/6/on_the_subject_of_bullying_ _gaslighting_etc on 25-May-22 I posted including "Pixiefluff falsely called me a troll, which (believe it or not) upset me."

On-The-Beach: "I think chatting in a deep and meaningful way involves a degree of passion and enthusiasm; two extremely attractive traits."
Scientific chat can also involve passion and enthusiasm, and a preparedness to admit one is wrong.
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
21 days ago
This thread has certainly cheered me up. I can't stop laughing.
eurostar
eurostar Female
21 days ago
Oh Jeff we,ll agree to differ on that  lolOr we could discuss it long and meaningfully ? Lol 

I actually cleass emails as emails messages as messages, texts as texts but conversations as face to face real time no zoom, teams etc 

But I do appreciate that to many people Internet communication is their way of conversation, and that's OK lol
Greencare
Greencare Female
21 days ago
A conversation is talking verbally face to face.
G-O-W
G-O-W Female
21 days ago
It has been known!
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
20 days ago
Is it Greencare, so  you can't discuss things over the phone, or via zoom or in letters? I used to love recieving chatty letters from friends, a written conversation or discussion is often more thoughtful and unless you want to write a novel shorter, all these means of conversing are far more than a mere passing of information.
Greencare
Greencare Female
20 days ago
Yes lots of ways to discuss and communicate. Generally speaking when referring to a conversation I would be talking about a face to face chat. Definitely not text or letters. Even other methods of communication I may refer to a telephone conversation or a zoom conversation but to me a conversation would be face to face.
HotOrWot
HotOrWot Male
19 days ago
I don't often have long and meaningful conversations.
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
19 days ago
LOL
HotOrWot
HotOrWot Male
17 days ago
I have my longest conversations when friends drop in for coffee and a chat.


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