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What should we do about people who refuse to get vaccinated

or who continue to deny that Covid is real?

On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
one year ago
As of last week, The Times reported that about a quarter of all NHS intensive care beds were occupied by unvaccinated people. (825 of 3,480).

Unless exempt for medical reasons, should unvaccinated people be made to pay for their NHS bed or, perhaps more radically, not be accepted into the NHS system at all?

Are unvaccinated people a liability to everyone else and are unvaccinated people taking up beds that could be used to accommodate some of the 6 million people waiting to be treated in hospital?

Should people who refused to be vaccinated "on principle", be treated differently than other patients?

Should unvaccinated people and C19 deniers be forced to take an IQ test to see if low intelligence contributes to their poor decision making processes?

Should all people, vaccinated or otherwise, be included in a future plan to make vaccine take up mandatory?

These are not intended to be questions relating to political decisions. Rather, I'm just interested in your general views or feelings in relation to individuals who some might describe as irresponsible, selfish, misinformed, ignorant or just plain stupid by not taking this current global pandemic seriously.
-
Whether you support or reject the views associated with the principles or actions of the unvaccinated, please share your thoughts here.
wonderoushen
wonderoushen Female
one year ago
Its a difficult one Strand, I don't like the idea of forcing people to be vaccinated, nor refusing to treat them or take IQ tests. IQ tests don't really tell you that much someone can have a fairly low IQ score but if they're using all of thier IQ, then they're better off and probably more thoughtful thann someone with a high IQ who only uses half of it, I'm sure we're all met people who are so intelligent they're incapicitated by it.

Refusing to treat someone because they don't do something the rest of us or those in the medical profession think is common sense is the start of a slippery slope towards eugenics. Who decides who's worth treating an who's not, what if someone has medical reasons for not being vaccinated, will someone decide against treating them and it only found out they're exempt from being vaccinated when its to late?

I do support the idea of people in certain professions having to be vaccinated, such as medical and care workers, to me it seems negligent that they arn't vaccinated. Like I say I fundamentally don't like the idea of forced vaccination, but I could see situations where it could need to happen, but I don't think we're there yet and hopefully won't be.
Blackjack
Blackjack Male
one year ago
You appear to a patron of the Church of TOTAL TRUTH that our resident fanatic Jeff regard himself sole leader - where the truth is massaged to create social division in order to victimise part of the nation. Them and us does not do you credit, or is the sadism hard to suppress at times?

Your figures although accurately reported were distorted in order to fit a particular narrative, below might help

According to the UK’s Health Security Agency data (page 31 of this document) 6639 patients were admitted to hospital “with Covid” in the weeks 44-47 of this year. Of those 6639, 2355 were unvaccinated.

So unvaccinated people do not even make up the majority of Covid cases, let alone the majority of ICU admissions in general.

So why not state that the vaccinated are the biggest threat to the NHS stopping important procedures - condemning people to premature death???? Not only do the vaccinated spread the virus like crazy but they carry - thanks to the vaccine - a greater load of it because the fake vaccine allows this to happen - the vaccinated are in effect potentially not just dangerous to the Unvaccinated but also to their Experimental Petri Dishes peers that they have been turned into -

Fools rush in where more sensible people just want to watch and see what happens - the vaccinated are the EXPERIMENT - Geddit!!!

Check a bit deeper next time otherwise you could turn into another JEFF - mabe that is what the virus is about - a monoculture of mindless zombied repeating the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT TRUTH without understanding it, while singing and dribbling?
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
one year ago
I'm fascinated by the numptys, Hen. Darwin award holders who, by their own actions, choose to pursue antics likely to remove themselves from the gene pool. Shouldn't we be rounding them up and taking them away for interrogation and psychological reprogramming?
On-The-Beach
On-The-Beach Male
one year ago
I cast this thread to attract my quarry, Blackjack, but was hoping for more exotic prey than yourself.

That said, it has been encouraging to see you posting (and commenting) in a far more thoughtful manner of late because unlike Jeff, (who requires 3rd party links as a crutch to exist here), you can think for yourself and contribute positively when you wish to. :)
BOYDEL
BOYDEL Male
one year ago
"So unvaccinated people do not even make up the majority of Covid cases, let alone the majority of ICU admissions in general."

To make any valid extrapolations from the above - we would also need to know whether the unvaccinated cohort are leading more careful lives and avoiding exposure as far as they can.
Wandering4fun
Wandering4fun Male
one year ago
Blackjack you are the man. You have Strand and Jeff wriggling like minnows on your hook as you reel them in. Their inferior minds are no match. Will STRAND turn into JEFF or JEFF turn into STRAND. They could almost be two peas in the proverbial pond.

Speaking words of wisdom
Let it be

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom
Let it be

And when the broken-hearted people
Living in the world agree
There will be an answer
Let it be

For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer
Let it be

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Yeah, there will be an answer
Let it be

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom
Let it be .........
Hierophant
Hierophant Male
one year ago
This pathetic government reckons there are about 5 million completely unvaccinated, others estimate the true figure is double or even three times that amount.
If people haven't had a jab now, they aren't ever going to and treating them like Jews in Nazi Germany is not going to end well.

The vaccinated need to have faith in the jollop they've taken, don't blame the unvaccinated for it not working, that's just a cop out.
Have the courage of your convictions, trust in the choice you made and let others do the same, life will be so much easier.
Anyway, in any trial you need a control group so the anti-vaxxers are providing a service. In a few years time we'll be able to see who made the right choice.

I know a few double-jabbed who don't want to have the booster, they are now in a quandary because they will soon be the unclean.
When all the vaccine lovers are called for jab number 6 or 7 and the novelty has worn off, what will they do, they can't go to the dark side can they?......
NoSaint
NoSaint Female
one year ago
If those choosing not to vaccinate had done so privately we would not have the present problem. Instead of doing that they dug up any old false news, scare stories, lies and misinformation which has frightened many away from becoming vaccinated when they would otherwise have done so.
This is what might bring about mandatory vaccinations and caused by the scaremongering.
Hierophant
Hierophant Male
one year ago
If those getting vaccinated had done so privately then life would have been much simpler.
Instead, we had little stickers and even online dating sites gave you the chance to tell the world.
Now, if I'm asked my jab status I either say "mind your business, it's private" or I lie.....
NoSaint
NoSaint Female
one year ago
Twist it any way you like but you know I'm right.
Hierophant
Hierophant Male
one year ago
This is what might bring about mandatory vaccinations and caused by the scaremongering.

Why are you moaning about that, I thought you'd be chuffed?
Anyway it's a naff argument - people should be encouraged to get a jab and if they still don't then we'll make them mandatory. Great choice! lolol
NoSaint
NoSaint Female
one year ago
Twist it any way you like but you know I'm right.
Hierophant
Hierophant Male
one year ago
Why worry what others are doing?
Stand by the choice you made, have faith in what you've done.
Don't be envious of others who have chosen a different path - you might both turn out to be right, imagine that.....
NoSaint
NoSaint Female
one year ago
Twist it any way you like but you know I'm right.
Blackjack
Blackjack Male
one year ago
A Lancet study comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated people in Sweden was conducted among 1.6 million individuals over nine months. It showed that protection against symptomatic COVID-19 declined with time, such that by six months, some of the more vulnerable vaccinated groups were at greater risk than their unvaccinated peers.

Doctors are calling this phenomena in the repeatedly vaccinated “immune erosion” or “acquired immune deficiency”, accounting for post-vaccine illnesses that either affect them more rapidly, resulting in death, or more slowly, resulting in chronic illness.

COVID vaccines are not traditional vaccines. Rather, they cause cells to reproduce one portion of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, the spike protein. The vaccines thus induce the body to create spike proteins. A person only creates antibodies against this one limited portion (the spike protein) of the virus. This has several longterm deleterious effects.

First, these vaccines “mis-train” the immune system to recognize only a small part of the virus (the spike protein). Variants that differ, even slightly, in this protein are able to escape the narrow spectrum of antibodies created by the vaccines.

Second, the vaccines create “vaccine addicts,” meaning persons become dependent upon regular booster shots, because they have been “vaccinated” only against a tiny portion of a mutating virus. Australian Health Minister Dr. Kerry Chant has stated that COVID will be with us forever and people will “have to get used to” taking endless vaccines. “This will be a regular cycle of vaccination and revaccination.”

Third, the vaccines do not prevent infection in the nose and upper airways, and vaccinated individuals have been shown to have much higher viral loads in these regions. This leads to the vaccinated becoming “super-spreaders” as they carry extremely high viral loads.

In addition, the vaccinated become more clinically ill than the unvaccinated. Scotland reported that the infection fatality rate in the vaccinated is 3.3 times the unvaccinated, and the risk of death if hospitalized is 2.15 times the unvaccinated.

A June report on Israel’s Channel 12 News revealed that in the months since the vaccines were rolled out, 6,765 people who received both shots had contracted coronavirus, while epidemiological tracing revealed an additional 3,133 people contracted COVID-19 from those vaccinated individuals.

Meanwhile, New England Journal of Medicine researchers have found that autoimmune response to the coronavirus spike protein may last indefinitely: having the potential to mediate profound effects on the cell that could result in pathologic changes, particularly in the long term — long after the original antigen itself has disappeared.” These antibodies produced against the coronavirus spike protein could be responsible for the current unprecedented wave of myocarditis and neurological illnesses, and even more problems in the future.

Indefinite uncontrolled autoimmune response to the coronavirus spike protein may produce a wave of antibodies called anti-idiotype antibodies or Ab2s that continue to damage human bodies long after clearing either Sars-Cov-2 itself or those spike proteins that the shots cause the body’s cells to produce, explained former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson.

Spike protein antibodies may themselves produce a second wave of antibodies, called anti-idiotype antibodies or Ab2s. Those Ab2s may modulate the immune system’s initial response by binding with and destroying the first wave of antibodies.

“Our immune systems produce these antibodies in response to both vaccination and natural infection with COVID,” wrote Berenson. “However – though the researchers do not say so explicitly, spike protein antibody levels are MUCH higher following vaccination than infection. Thus the downstream response to vaccination may be more severe.”

“ In most countries now, high fractions of the population have been vaccinated. If the S
Blackjack
Blackjack Male
one year ago
The U.K. government has already said that the fourth injection is to take place a mere three months after the third. It’s utter madness. Yet such is the hermetic control of media that nothing much emerges into the public consciousness.”
Samx
Samx Male
one year ago
I said this before. People who refused to be vaccinated should have to pay if need to attend the hospital because of that illness. People who refuse or can’t pay should not be admitted, like in the American system.

This should apply to people who are getting drunk, drug addicts and other form of self induced illnesses.

The NHS has been introduced to give free BASIC treatment for illnesses. It has never been designed to help infertility, more than basic replacement limbs and other procedures to alleviate basic results from treatment. If this would be implemented, it would survive. In its present state it’s bound to be overburdened and eventually divided or die.

All foreigners should have to pay for the treatment or not be admitted.
Hierophant
Hierophant Male
one year ago
Blimey, covid seems to have turned people into raging capitalists.
Suddenly our precious NHS should ban certain people and not treat them at all.
Sounds good to me, let's draw up a list of "bad" people who do "bad" things and make sure we don't treat them.
Smokers, drinkers, fat people, hypochondriacs...please feel free to add others.....
Sea
Sea Female
one year ago
Strand, so a quarter of those in internsive care wards are unvaccinanted? Which means that three quarters of those taking up all these beds are vaccinated. Clearly the majority of the bed hogging is by those who are vaccinated. The vaccinated are the biggest spreaders as they seem to have a false sence of security that they are protected, yet many double and triple jabbed are catching and passing covid on. And it is now known that the first two jabs fail very quickly as the govermnet are pushing for many to have a booster after only three months. Where will it end. there are also many who have lost their lives after being vaccinated, blood clost, sudden heart attacks (many young athletes amongst them) strokes etc. etc. It should be a personal choice for everyone to weigh up the odds of the risk if they catch covid or the risk nad long term effects of the vaccine. This new Omicrom is meant to be much milder and contains a lot of the cold virus. Most catching it have had no more than a cold. too much scaremongering by the meadia as big money for all the pharma companies.
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
one year ago
As of last week, The Times reported that about a quarter of all NHS intensive care beds were occupied by unvaccinated people. (825 of 3,480).

Unless exempt for medical reasons, should unvaccinated people be made to pay for their NHS bed or, perhaps more radically, not be accepted into the NHS system at all?

Are unvaccinated people a liability to everyone else and are unvaccinated people taking up beds that could be used to accommodate some of the 6 million people waiting to be treated in hospital?

Should people who refused to be vaccinated "on principle", be treated differently than other patients?

Should unvaccinated people and C19 deniers be forced to take an IQ test to see if low intelligence contributes to their poor decision making processes?

Should all people, vaccinated or otherwise, be included in a future plan to make vaccine take up mandatory?

These are not intended to be questions relating to political decisions. Rather, I'm just interested in your general views or feelings in relation to individuals who some might describe as irresponsible, selfish, misinformed, ignorant or just plain stupid by not taking this current global pandemic seriously.
-
Whether you support or reject the views associated with the principles or actions of the unvaccinated, please share your thoughts here.


I think the government should continue to use the present rules for the time being. Mandatory vaccinations for certain occupations make sense but I don't think we are ready to see it rolled out for everyone even though it would make everyone much safer.
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
one year ago
As of last week, The Times reported that about a quarter of all NHS intensive care beds were occupied by unvaccinated people. (825 of 3,480).

Unless exempt for medical reasons, should unvaccinated people be made to pay for their NHS bed or, perhaps more radically, not be accepted into the NHS system at all?

Are unvaccinated people a liability to everyone else and are unvaccinated people taking up beds that could be used to accommodate some of the 6 million people waiting to be treated in hospital?

Should people who refused to be vaccinated "on principle", be treated differently than other patients?

Should unvaccinated people and C19 deniers be forced to take an IQ test to see if low intelligence contributes to their poor decision making processes?

Should all people, vaccinated or otherwise, be included in a future plan to make vaccine take up mandatory?

These are not intended to be questions relating to political decisions. Rather, I'm just interested in your general views or feelings in relation to individuals who some might describe as irresponsible, selfish, misinformed, ignorant or just plain stupid by not taking this current global pandemic seriously.
-
Whether you support or reject the views associated with the principles or actions of the unvaccinated, please share your thoughts here.


I think the government should continue to use the present rules for the time being. Mandatory vaccinations for certain occupations make sense but I don't think we are ready to see it rolled out for everyone even though it would make everyone much safer.
Hierophant
Hierophant Male
one year ago
What concerns me is how so many people are willing to throw away freedom (usually others' freedom) without batting an eyelid.
Whatever we do (or let them do) now, we're stuck with.
Precedents will be set and the next government or the one after that may not be to your liking but they will build on the foundations put in place now.

Mandatory jabs sound like the silver bullet right now, but try thinking long-term. How will you feel in 3 or 5 years time?
What else could be bolted-on to the covid vaccine as a requirement to live? Other treatments, organ donation all controlled by the state. Mandatory basically means you have no choice, remember that.
What will they link it to, your pension, your benefits, loan applications, insurance and life assurance, all these things could be determined by your vaccine status.

I find it astonishing that people baulk at the idea of needing ID to vote, and yet vaccine passports and mandatory jabs are all the rage....
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
one year ago
I find it astonishing that people baulk at the idea of needing ID to vote

Do they baulk?
MrQuiet
MrQuiet Male
one year ago
We need safety measures and not many will deny that but we cannot go too far.

Mandatory wearing of seat belts and motorcycle helmets makes sense but taking cars and bikes off the roads does not make sense.


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