Do you believe in Evolution, or a Creator ?

I believe in Evolution. And i'm an Agnostic. We all got here somehow. ?.

Totally not sure, history says we come from apes, neanderthal man etc bible says we came from Adam and eve who only had two sons???? No proper proof of either so wil stay not sure lol

I think that makes you Agnostic then Euro, same as me.

I think there is enough evidence now, that we came from apes, in fact we still are...apes?

Something like 95% of our DNA is the same as fly???? ...or thereabouts.

Darwin wrote about survival of the fittest and how those species who can't adapt to their environment, just die off.

Apparently, some species of birds have evolved to look out for traffic so the ones with ability to look out for traffic survive to live another day and teach their young.

What are you evolved from, michaelt?

But God created apes. It’s quite obvious.

We came from a chemical reaction and will return to one.

God knew what he was doing when he created a chemical reaction to allow us to evolve from scratch.

We were thrown out of a passing spaceship, on a distant but suitable exoplanet called earth. But 'god' returned feeling remorse for his actions, and in return we crucified him.

Or we are an experiment placed in a very remote part of the galaxy, where we can't cause trouble to other lifeforms.

I came from planet Andromeda...... seriously

Although science doesn't have all the answers, there is plenty of evidence for evolution and that Adam and Eve never existed anything like described in Jewish/Christian/Islamic holy books.

I have watched numerous YouTube videos by creationists, who often confuse evolution with the development of the universe, and with the origin of life (abiogenesis). They ignore much evidence, and very often grossly distort what evolutionists write. They are corrected in many videos by people such as Aron Ra and Paulogia, but I think that biblical fundamentalists aren't interested in seriously considering what disagrees with their beliefs.

Many other religious believers believe that God created us by the process of evolution. But I don't know why He took billions of years with 5 mass extinctions that killed the great majority of species, (and I don't mean the fiction of Noah's flood).


Victoriana, MSE has a member called Andromeda - seriously. She lives in Berkshire, not Bucks as you do. Maybe she is married to a very old Greek hero named Perseus, and she came from the Andromeda galaxy.

I still remember part of the 1961 BBC television serial "A for Andromeda". Signals from the Andromeda galaxy instructed scientists how to construct computer which then created a woman named Andromeda.

It was co-written by Fred Hoyle, whose 1983 book "The Intelligent Universe" is about his theory that life originally came to Earth from outer space, and continues to do so as viruses. For example it has photos of tiny allegedly once-living organisms found within meteorites, and it would explain why in 1948 remote Sardinian shepherds caught flu at the same time as people in towns.


Science fiction writer L.Ron Hubbard made it a sacred teaching of the church of Scientology that we originate from anothe galaxy. The Wikipedia article about Xenu includes:-
"Xenu also called Xemu, was, according to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who brought billions of his people to Earth (then known as "Teegeeack") in DC-8-like spacecraft 75 million years ago, stacked them around volcanoes, and killed them with hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology scriptures hold that the thetans (immortal spirits) of these aliens adhere to humans, causing spiritual harm.
...
Within the Church of Scientology, the Xenu story is part of the church's secret "Advanced Technology", considered a sacred and esoteric teaching,[11] which is normally only revealed to members who have completed a lengthy sequence of courses costing large amounts of money. The church avoids mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story's confidentiality, including legal action on the grounds of copyright and trade secrecy. Officials of the Church of Scientology widely deny or try to hide the Xenu story. Despite this, much material on Xenu has leaked to the public via court documents and copies of Hubbard's notes that have been distributed through the Internet."

Your are right Jeff. God never popped Adam and Eve on this planet.

God provided the universe and the ability for that universe and everything in it to evolve at its own pace for better or worse. Imagine you have ten vast nests of ants and you want them to live. You provide a “universe” for them to live in than leave them to it. You don’t try to command individual ants.

Clever guy this God.

So one wonders when did God do this provisioning?

As far as we know nothing existed before the Big Bang happened an estimated 13.8 billion years ago.
At that point our Universe and the material within it was born in a massive expansion that blew space up like a gigantic balloon and led to the Theory which virtually all cosmologists and theoretical physicists endorse and it was only after its initial expansion, when the universe cooled sufficiently that subatomic particles and later atoms were formed to lead to the 200 billion to maybe 2 trillion galaxies forming.

When did the Big G come on the scene, before or after.

Maybe the ultimate chicken and egg conundrum!!

It proves beyond any reasonable doubt M’lud that God is a very very old geezer.

If nothing existed before the Big Bang, what created the big bang.

The obvious answer I suppose is a collection of volatile gasses. Where did they come from. I don't think the Big Bang theory is altogether plausible. What was the theory before the big bang.

For Seasons-greetings. You sound as if you know about the subject.

The Big Bang was an expansion, and perhaps creation, of space itself, not like a bomb explosion in which matter and energy go into already existing space. There is evidence for several stages of the Big Bang, including a stage before molecules and atoms existed, a stage when some current basic forces were merged, an ultra-fast inflation of space, etc. Less than 1 / 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (10 to the power of minus 34) of a second ago current ideas the ideas become without foundation.

There are various ideas as to what was before the Big Bang. Apart from "God did it", for many years physicists have been juggling many ideas including these:-
(a) Energy/matter has always existed eternally, (like God is supposed to have done).
(b) The laws of Conservation of Energy/Matter might noy always hold.
(c) There were "Big Bounces" of the universe contracting then expanding.
(d) The Big Bang created many universes having different physical laws. (These "multiverses" are different from Hugeh Everett's multiverses that are created with every quantum observation.)
(e) In Quantum Field Theory which is well established, energy is always coming into existence from nothing for a short time, and that was the start of it existing - Laurence Krauss often expounds on AUniverse from Nothing.
(f) Physicists are very aware of the contradictions between the well established theories of Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity gravity, so a new theory is needed.
(g) The energy of creating of matter is counterbalanced by its gravity. (But I don't get that!)
(h) There are mind-bending paradoxes of Black Holes.
(i) If the Big Bang created time as well as space, then "before" that is meaningless, because that is assuming a concept of time but time didn't exist.
(j) If near its creation time was much "slower", then one might never reach its start. Rather like trying to get a finite away if distance keeps getting smaller exponentially. Or like knowing that 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.125 etc to infinity never reaches 1.
and so on.

But the above isn't related to Darwin's Thoery of Evolution by natural selection. (As for the common objection "its name admits that it's only a theory", unfortunately the word "theory" can either mean an idea such as a guess, or what happens as shown by huge amounts of evidence - evolution is the latter.)


A main proponent of the bible's Genesis being literal from abnut 6,000 years ago are Kent Hovind (and his son Eric), which is an anagram of Viced Rhino who is a YouTube regular correcting numerous Kent's misleading statements about science. Another main proponent of literal Genesis is Ken ham of Answers in Genesis (AiG), and Paulogia often refers to "Ham and AiG" (ham & eggs)!

Kent and Ken say that Noah's Flood actually occurred about 4,000 years ago. As that supposedly killed almost all of life, the current huge range of animals must have developed from the relatively few "kinds" (unclearly defined) in a period of time much much shorter than the billions of years of the theory of evolution.

how about daddy lay on mummy, you moron,lol

God creating the volatile gasses is more likely than God creating Adam and Eve which is clearly just a story from the book of many authors.

The question asked of SG. I don't think god's likely to give me an answer.

il assk him for you if you like ?

Gilpin 6-Apr-2020 20:36
You sound as if you know about the subject.

I don't. Just contemplating the numbers involved makes me 'ead 'urt !!
lol
Clearly Jeff seems to have a handle on it though.

Clearly Jeff seems to have a handle on it though.

Jeff is a bit of an expert on the subject.

Thanks for the comments. I have often read about and watched the ideas that I listed (from my thoughts), but I'm not an expert. Re-reading my post of 21:38 the 1st paragraph's, the last sentence should have "ago current ideas become without foundation" should read "after the Big Bang, using current ideas becomes without foundation".
In other words, the laws of physics that we are familiar with become too unreliable.

I recommend my posts in thread "Science and Religion more misunderstandings about creation" https://www.midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=189785&page=1 For example, (and you need to read the posts to see many facts, not just vague statements):-

On 13-Jan-19 at 18:36 including "A common statement by people against evolution is that people weren't there to see it happening. But ..."
Young Earth creationists often lie that evolution is a religion. But here are some differences. ...".

On 15-Jan-19 at 12:01 including "A common statement by people against evolution is that people weren't there to see it happening. But ...
I'm no expert in the subject, but from evidence of reading and viewing, I believe that there is a mountain of evidence from millions of experts indicating that the theory of evolution is true. This can be seen in, for example:- ...
There are arguments against evolution. I raised 10 of them (which I disagree with) in thread "Evolution Questions and Answers" www.midsummerseve.com/thread/176247/1/evolution on 10-Aug-13 at 19:00.".

On 15-Jan-19 at 17:59 including a quote of Jesus and "If Jesus had advised people to wash their hands, he could have avoided a lot of misery. Why didn't God tell Jesus to inform people that bacteria exist and how to make and use effective soap?".
I wonder if Jesus would wash his hands against Coronavirus COVID-19, or whether he would have just prayed that it would disappear. Millions of people are praying for that, and even still going to mass religious services, but it doesn't seem to be working.

On 16-Jan-19 at 20:32 including "There are numerous creation myths. (Look up lists of them.)". Maybe I should have stated explicitly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths and its links from many cultures. Adam and Eve aren't the only religious ideas of our origins.

On 23-Jan-19 at 15:18 including "For most of their history practically all Jews, Christians were taught and believed that Genesis was literally true. Jesus referred to Abel (a son of Adam, Matthew 23:35 & Luke 11:51) and to Noah's flood (Matthew 24:37-39 & Luke 17:26-27). And it is still mainstream Christian theology that sin was passed down from Adam & Eve, which is why Jesus was born of a virgin (fake prophecy) and died to save us from our sins.
Muslime are taught that Adam & Eve/Hawa were the first people, and Adam is in many places in the qur'an. Most Muslims believe in creationism. e.g. in 2007 a study found that only 8% of Egyptians, 11% of Malaysians, 14% of Pakistanis, 16% of Indonesians and 22% of Turks said that Darwin's theory is probably or most certainly true. In 2008 a survey of 5,700 teachers found that Lebanon, Senegal, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria had 62% to 81% as creationists, (similarly among biology teachers). In 2012 the Turkish government blocked internet searches on evolution and Darwin, and in 2017 Turkey proposed to stop teaching evolution below university level. Saudi Arabia and Sudan prohibit teaching evolution in schools.
Although nowadays the Catholic church doesn't commit for or against evolution, the Vatican website still has many references to Adam.
On 03-Dec-08 pope Benedict XVI mentioned just some of St.Paul's New Testament references to Adam (my emphasis): "In today's Catechesis we shall reflect on the relations between Adam and Christ ...".

My posts of 23-Jan-19 at 15:22, and 25-Jan-19 at 21:05, 21:29, 21:30 & 21:33 give many examples of the New Testament confirming myths from the Old Testament.

On 03-Mar-19 at 22:20 including "In 1950 Pope Pius XII allowed enquiry into human evolution but Catholics still had to believe in Adam & Eve. Then mainstream Christianity became more relaxed about whether to take Genesis literally or believe in human evolution. But in 2005 Pope Benedict XVI said that people "are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed,

On 03-Mar-19 at 22:20 including "In 1950 Pope Pius XII allowed enquiry into human evolution but Catholics still had to believe in Adam & Eve. Then mainstream Christianity became more relaxed about whether to take Genesis literally or believe in human evolution. But in 2005 Pope Benedict XVI said that people "are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
In April-May 2018 a Pew Research Center survey of U.S.A. adults asked whether they thought that "Humans have existed in their present form since the beginning of time". Replies yes (against evolution) were: 18% of overall, 38% of White evangelical Protestants, 27% of Black Protestants, 16% of Mainline Protestants, 13% of Catholics and 11% of Unaffiliated. (Previous surveys had much higher percentages against evolution.)".
I also point out Kent Hovind's jail sentence for ""I haven’t filed any income tax in 28 years"". Although Kent still claims he was innocent.


On 03-Mar-19 at 22:27 including some misleading quotes by Jehovah's Witnesses.

In thread " What does the story of Adam and Eve teach us?" http://www.midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=190380&page=3 on 18-Mar-18 at 16:31 I posted about a Jehovah's Witnesses meeting including "At the end of the meeting I asked two leaders whether they believed that Adam and Eve existed, and is so then how long ago they lived. They replied yes, about 6,000 years ago. I asked whether Adam eating the forbidden fruit caused herbivores to become carnivores, and they replied yes. Then I asked how long it took for the animals to change their diet, (for example immediately, or after a few minutes, or after a few years), and they replied that they didn't know, but they will email me.".
But even though in 1 or 2 subsequent meetings I reminded them of my question and email address, they never contacted me.

That’s a lot of stories referenced there Jeff. Stories are all they are.

I don’t think any sane person could deny evolution. We have seen much of it with our own eyes.

Most of us probably accept scientific evidence of a Big Bang kicking things off.

Not everyone accepts what might be the most obvious of all. God created the situation which gave us the Big Bang then left it to evolution to sort itself out.

Clever guy!