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Britain and the EU.

Did anybody on here vote remain. ?

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Male
Michaelt  Male  Devon 28-Jul-2019 14:04 Message #4746632
Britain and the EU.

The EU is the bastion of “real” democracy on this planet with Proportional Representation as its voting system. Britain’s so called democracy is a farce because it’s totally undemocratic, with First Past the Post as our voting system. Just 37 per cent of a 66 per cent turn- out put these bastards back in power at the last general election.

Britain has benefited from being part of the biggest single market in the world, but not part of Europe because we have never shared in Europe’s Social or Economic culture.

The EU has a population of around 500 million citizens and the single market has mean’t that British businesses have been able to import and export goods without facing trade tariffs. Almost half of the UK’s trade and foreign investment comes from the EU, supporting an estimated 3.5 million British jobs.

A report by the Centre for Economics and Business Research, released in October 2015, suggested 3.5 million British jobs were linked to the UK’s exports to the EU.
The UK referendum on continued membership of the EU was held on 23 June 2016, and the result was 52% to 48% in favour of leaving. But the story is not yet over. The referendum was advisory, there was never plan regarding what the UK outside the EU would look like, the negotiations on leaving have not yet begun, it is clear that many of the unheeded warnings about the costs of leaving are coming home to roost, and polls indicate a high level of regret among those who voted to leave.
Since the outcome was always going to determine not just the place of the UK in Europe and the world, but the very future of a united kingdom, its importance cannot be over-emphasized. Those of us who support continued membership must continue to make a positive and progressive case for continued membership.
This page is designed as a resource for anyone looking for information on the benefits and achievements of UK membership of the EU, and of the EU in general.
Here are some good places to start:
The EU: What’s in it for me? From the EU
CBI Factsheet From the Confederation of British Industry
50 Reasons to Love the European Union From The Independent, March 2007
Ten things the EU has done for us From The Guardian, October 2012
What’s the EU ever done for us? This lot. Letter to The Guardian, February 2013
So what has Europe ever done for you? From The Independent, January 2014
What has the European Parliament ever done for us? From the BBC, February 2014
The Benefits of Scotland’s EU Membership, March 2015
An EU explainer for the easily bored: what has Europe ever done for me? From New Statesman, March 2015
What has the European Union ever done for us? From The Independent, February 2016
What has the EU ever done for us? From Huffington Post, February 2016
What has the EU done for the UK? From The Financial Times, February 2016
Here is a quick Top Ten list:
Top Ten list reasons to like the EU
1. Helping bring a lasting peace to Europe. (Not a negative peace of the kind brought by military force.)
2. Promoting prosperity, innovation, opportunity and choice.
3. Raising standards and expectations.
4. Helping Europeans understand their shared values.
5. Reducing – yes, reducing – regulation and red tape.
6. Replacing self-interest with shared interests, and exclusion with inclusion.
7. Promoting democracy and free markets at home and abroad.
8. Allowing Europe and its individual states to speak with a louder voice.
9. Offering a benchmark model of civilian power.
10. Encouraging a rules-based approach to international affairs.
Male
fosy  Male  Leicestershire 28-Jul-2019 15:54 Message #4746649
careful peeps, could be another political trap for the unsuspecting...
Male
Withgoodintent  Male  North Yorkshire 28-Jul-2019 15:57 Message #4746650
He’s just caught you so not too clever.
Male
fosy  Male  Leicestershire 28-Jul-2019 16:05 Message #4746653
i replied to his question ? well i never...

but dont beat yourself up, its just another day on good old mse...
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 28-Jul-2019 16:20 Message #4746655
Michaelt - 28-Jul-2019 14:04

Not a reply, just a correction:-

The EU is the bastion of “real” democracy on this planet with Proportional Representation ...

Completely inaccurate. The EU as an institution allows the elected representatives (MEPs) no real power at all, the appointed bureaucrats who wield all the power have no electorally binding constraints on their actions within the EU juggernaut. In that respect the 'First Past The Post' system is superior although undeniably unsuitable for the modern UK.

I didn't read the remainder of the post as inaccurate assumptions cannot be used as the basis of a sensible debate.

SQL
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 28-Jul-2019 16:45 Message #4746656
Did he use the b word?
Some good golf today, its raining here now.
Male
Witheflow  Male  North Yorkshire 28-Jul-2019 17:07 Message #4746658
SQL - 28-July 16:20

Correction of false information.

(MEPs) no real power at all, the appointed bureaucrats who wield all the power have no electorally binding constraints on their actions within the EU juggernaut

Wrong! The bureaucrats are appointed to enact the agreed manifesto and mandates of the MEPs. The MEPs run the show and the bureaucrats do as commanded from the policy legislation.

The 'First Past The Post' system is superior

The First Past The Post system is a failed undemocratic dinosaur. It allows grossly unfair representation of the UK population. By allowing minority governments to ignore the vast majority of the populations wishes. Think of it in simple terms, a UK City population of 2000, allows a party to win a seat on 17% of that populations vote. Now times that by 600 seat/constituencies and you have a governing party enacting policies that represent 20 to 30% on average of the UK electorate. That's 3/4 of the populus being ignored and unrepresented. Superior maybe to a bully or someone who likes to ignore other people. But inferior to true democracy.
Male
Witheflow  Male  North Yorkshire 28-Jul-2019 17:08 Message #4746659
SQL - 28-July 16:20

Correction of false information.

(MEPs) no real power at all, the appointed bureaucrats who wield all the power have no electorally binding constraints on their actions within the EU juggernaut

Wrong! The bureaucrats are appointed to enact the agreed manifesto and mandates of the MEPs. The MEPs run the show and the bureaucrats do as commanded from the policy legislation.

The 'First Past The Post' system is superior

The First Past The Post system is a failed undemocratic dinosaur. It allows grossly unfair representation of the UK population. By allowing minority governments to ignore the vast majority of the populations wishes. Think of it in simple terms, a UK City population of 2000, allows a party to win a seat on 17% of that populations vote. Now times that by 600 seat/constituencies and you have a governing party enacting policies that represent 20 to 30% on average of the UK electorate. That's 3/4 of the populus being ignored and unrepresented. Superior maybe to a bully or someone who likes to ignore other people. But inferior to true democracy.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 28-Jul-2019 17:32 Message #4746662
A tip if I may - you really need to shorten your posts, I would guess most people are like me and stop reading after a few lines, if they bother reading at all.
Why is it all of you "I know best" types need a 10,000 word dissertation to ram your point of view down everybody's throats?
Always remember, less is more...
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset 28-Jul-2019 17:36 Message #4746667
I'm just going to double block this individual straight away this time, before engaging this third embodiment of Mr Troll. (I wonder if I'll get some Green Shield stamps, a free glass tumbler or some world cup commemorative coins for double blocking the complete trio?)
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 28-Jul-2019 18:03 Message #4746669
Michaelt - 28-Jul-2019 14:04

Not a reply, just a correction:-

The EU is the bastion of “real” democracy on this planet with Proportional Representation ...

Completely inaccurate. The EU as an institution allows the elected representatives (MEPs) no real power at all, the appointed bureaucrats who wield all the power have no electorally binding constraints on their actions within the EU juggernaut. In that respect the 'First Past The Post' system is superior although undeniably unsuitable for the modern UK.

I didn't read the remainder of the post as inaccurate assumptions cannot be used as the basis of a sensible debate.

SQL


Correct.
Male
Witheflow  Male  North Yorkshire 28-Jul-2019 20:25 Message #4746685
Hieroplant. Thank you for your unbiased criticism. I dont doubt you wont read the full posts, especially going by your negative diatribes on the previous conversations. But I will decline your advice and thank you again.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 28-Jul-2019 20:41 Message #4746686
Hieroplant. Thank you for your unbiased criticism

A fine accolade indeed. Well done Hierophant.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 28-Jul-2019 21:23 Message #4746688
Well I'm lost because the OP hasn't responded to my advice yet I'm being praised.
Oh, I guess it's one of my blockees...

Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 28-Jul-2019 21:34 Message #4746689
I voted to remain, however the leavers supposedly had more votes so as far as I'm concerned remain lost. I'll just laugh at them when everything they thought they'd gain goes down the pan. The sooner we're out the better to put an end to all the arguing
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 28-Jul-2019 21:52 Message #4746691
Witheflow -28-Jul-2019 17:07

Wrong! The bureaucrats are appointed to enact the agreed manifesto and mandates of the MEPs. The MEPs run the show and the bureaucrats do as commanded from the policy legislation.

I don't honestly know how you could be alive and so completely and utterly wrong. Just read the EU Parliament webpages. EU legislation is initiated by the EU Commission or the EU Council of Ministers (both appointed - not elected or accountable). The EU Parliament is allowed to debate the proposed legislation and can refer it back to the initiating source with request(s) for modification but - except in very unusual circumstances - the EU Parliament is a 'rubber stamp' outfit. That's why the UK's 'The 'First Past The Post' system is superior but still not ideal.

You obviously need to be guided through the functioning of the EU juggernaut, for a start try learning about the difference between 'directives' and 'regulations' to ease yourself in slowly.

SQL
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 28-Jul-2019 22:02 Message #4746692
I notice that someone double-posted on 28-Jul-2019 at 17:07 and again at 17:08 and each time they got 1 (yes a solitary 1) vote of excellence. Does that seem a bit odd to anyone else here?

SQL
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 28-Jul-2019 22:05 Message #4746695
From Witheflow

But inferior to true democracy.

Tell me then Witheflow what is "true democracy".

SQL
Male
Michaelt  Male  Devon 29-Jul-2019 08:18 Message #4746701
terry , I also voted remain, but im inclined to agree with you, experience is not only a great teacher, it is for many, the only teacher.

Please tell me why you voted remain, im interested ?
Female
Cautious1954  Female  Berkshire 29-Jul-2019 08:25 Message #4746703
I don't think you need experience to learn or know about something. Most things can be studied in depth or through the help of others. I voted remain because I don't think leaving has any advantages and most of the complaints about the EU are as valid as the Boris kipper.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 29-Jul-2019 08:44 Message #4746704
I would prefer my grandkids to not have to fight a war, and whilst the EU is far from perfect, within it's boundaries we've had relative peace.
Whilst many decry health and safety laws, they have improved safety for workers and users. Left to our own devices and a profit driven society these will slowly decline.
I would like all workers to get a fair day's wage for a fair day's work, this country on it's own is reverting to before the Tolpuddle Martyrs.
I would like my grandkids to grow up respecting other people, other cultures, other beliefs, as is seen so often on these threads that isn't likely in this country standing alone.
I don't want to see a return to workhouses, though it seems many do.
Greed and the pursuit of power will always be within man, some more than others, standing together we may not completely get rid of it, but together we may be better able to control it.

That's just a few of the reasons.
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 29-Jul-2019 08:50 Message #4746705
The talk of workhouses is as much of a red herring as Boris' kipper. All very fishy but better than real arguments.
Female
Blue-Poppy  Female  East Yorkshire 29-Jul-2019 09:02 Message #4746707
Excellent posting Terry and I totally agree with your reasoning. There is absolutely nothing that will bring back the days before the EU and it's the grandchildren and beyond we should be thinking of instead of the fairytale days of our youth. Too much has happened since.
Male
zodiac1  Male  Flintshire 29-Jul-2019 09:47 Message #4746710
Gone_fishing

Did you forget about pink stamps?
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 29-Jul-2019 10:04 Message #4746711
My mention of workhouses wasn't a belief they would return, it was that some people don't see anything wrong with them, in fact, some people see them as a good thing. We should look to improve life, not reverse it, and whatever we think of the young of today this world is theirs now, not ours...

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