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Interested in your opinion on undertaking.

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JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 4-Jan-2019 17:04 Message #4732769
Following on from the driving thread and seeing a near miss coming home from work one evening, in the dark, just before the Christmas Break.

There are a lot of new cycling lanes being introduced in Manchester at the moment and that, in my opinion, is a great idea. In the past, it was maybe more straightforward as cyclists and drivers shared the same space and going in the same direction. But now cyclists have their own kind of runway with a barrier between the cars and the cyclists, who in your opinion (I'm not sure the Highway Code goes that far) has right of way of the car in front of your is turning left at traffic lights, but as they slow down, with indicator blinking, to make that manoeuvre, the cyclist speeds on up the INSIDE of the turning car?

The car in front of me had to stop as the driver had luckily seen the cyclist approaching on his/her near side. Not only that, but a whole stream of cyclists followed through, leaving the driver stranded in the middle of the left manoeuvre.

As a cyclist and driver, had I been the cyclist, I would have felt I should have stopped for the driver to come across, but with the arrogance of many cyclists now, and changes in law, perhaps we should have 360 degree vision to see them coming from all directions and give way. I KNOW we should do this anyway, and I do, but it is getting scary for what some speeding cyclists who don't seem to reciprocate the same level of caution to others. It's why my car now has a dash cam, driving to and from work through Manchester.

What do you think?
The_Snow_Covered_Fool  Male  Cheshire 4-Jan-2019 18:50 Message #4732771
I think they should follow the rules of the road.
When one road crosses another you give way.

wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 4-Jan-2019 18:55 Message #4732772
In summer we're plagued with cyclists, its better here than where I used to live, at least here they can't pretend its a cycling lane. Some of them are really dangerous, they've got headphones on, heads down, legs pumping, its like the rest of the world dosen't exist. I've been caught in a similar situation to what you describe, although it was only one cyclist, this wasn't on a cycle lane, but a main road and he gave no indication of his intent. Its very confusing for a non cyclist to try and read the body language of a cyclist, especially a lycra warrior, I try my hardest to be a considerate driver, but often that consideration isn't reciprocated by the people you're trying to consider, which just makes me cross. It annoys me that cyclists seem to be able to freely ignore roads signs and speed limits, many have bikes that don't have proper lights or reflectors and yet if I hit them its automatically my fault, they could damage my car, or me when I'm a pedestrian and because they have no insurance theres no comeback to encourage them to better behaviour.

At one local beauty spot theres been several people, dogs and horses hurt by cyclists, it seems its ok for a cyclist to ride into a horse and then shout at the rider, I wonder how ok it would be if the horse kicked the cyclist? To make it even worse the worst offenders are a cycling club from the mainland and they ignore any attempts by other forest users to engage with them to find a constructive solution.
barney  Male  Surrey 4-Jan-2019 19:13 Message #4732776
One morning on my way to work I was stuck behind a cyclist on a narrow road for ages. When I eventually overtook giving him plenty of clearance he banged on the side of my Jeep. I jammed on the brakes and got out and read him his fortune and told him he was lucky I didn't put the bike where the sun don't shine.
By then I had about 30 cars stacked up behind us lol.

Just a bunch of lycra clad louts.
eurostar  Female  Merseyside 4-Jan-2019 19:21 Message #4732777
cyclists or lycra clad louts???.really?

anyway away from the cyclist haters...each cyclist at each junction should stop and assess whats going on with cars thoughts are the car is a murder weapon to a cyclist who isn't watching whats going on...… constantly crash into each other so all cyclists beware the car.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 4-Jan-2019 19:42 Message #4732778

These were cyclists and cars going along the same road, but where the driver was turning left, technically, the cyclist could claim right of way going straight on.

The point I am trying to make is that the cycling lane kind of gives the cyclist his own additional rights as if it is another road, as the cycle lane is separated. Had the cycle lane not been there, driving rules would mean he would be undertaking.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 4-Jan-2019 19:46 Message #4732779

A cyclist isn't obliged to follow a written code. OK, many are drivers, but maybe some don't actually know the driving rules and there is nothing to oblige them to adhere to what most of us consider is "watching what's going on".

Crikey, even some cats have learned road sense.

I'm not a cyclist hater, I am a cyclist, but some cyclists, usually in Lycra, do push their luck more than the anorak plodder.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 4-Jan-2019 19:54 Message #4732780

I was on Lymm Railway, now a walkway /cycle /horse /dog walk with my daughter's collies. We've trained them to sit and wait if we see a cyclist and mostly it works. However, one went speeding past and the younger dog just wandered near him, not chasing, and it looked as if he did a deliberate somersault and landed on the ground. Even IF the dog was after him, in which case she wouldn't be a dog off the lead, he was going so fast and didn't think to slow down.

Perhaps I am wrong to judge by my own rules, because if cycling in that situation I go at walking speed and I don't even like to ring my bell as I feel as if I am being presumptive that my bike has priority over those holding me up.


Yes, it's frustrating. It happened to me, but we just waited. I was disgusted but didn't do anything because the cyclists had no qualms keeping a stream of traffic for what seemed like several miles. Even decent HGV and tractor drivers pull over to let the stream pass.
eurostar  Female  Merseyside 4-Jan-2019 19:54 Message #4732781
er I always assumed there was a written code for cyclists with fines of up too £1000 for bad cycling, no lights, drink/drug cycling etc...
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire 4-Jan-2019 20:11 Message #4732784
I would have thought that the person in charge of the lethal weapon would take the responsible and cautious approach on realising that the cyclist had either made a mistake or was not aware that they were intending to turn across their path.
Accidents don't happen. They are caused. Even if someone has made a contributory mistake, it is not necessary for the other person to compound it by being bloody minded.
Anecdotally, from what other people tell me about collisions that they have been involved in, it seems to me that the vast majority of accidents are caused by people asserting what they perceive to be their right of way.
As for who has priority in the example you give. If the cyclist is meant to dismount and give way, the signage and cycle way markings usually make it pretty clear.
But the thing that you have to remember when you are driving is that non motorised road users, including pedestrians, have a different perception of speed and distance and the decisions that they make will differ accordingly from how someone perceives it when driving. Also, they also do not fully predict the outcome on other traffic of a decision they make, simply because they are moving much more slowly. If you don't want someone else's death on your conscience, it may be aswell to drive carefully, take those things into account and be much kinder to non
motorised transport.
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire 4-Jan-2019 20:16 Message #4732785
I don't many cyclists with arms that are over a metre long. If you passed close enough for him to bang on the side of your car, you didn't give him plenty of clearance. You were damn close.
The_Snow_Covered_Fool  Male  Cheshire 4-Jan-2019 20:32 Message #4732788
" These were cyclists and cars going along the same road, but where the driver was turning left, technically, the cyclist could claim right of way going straight on.
The point I am trying to make is that the cycling lane kind of gives the cyclist his own additional rights as if it is another road, as the cycle lane is separated. Had the cycle lane not been there, driving rules would mean he would be undertaking. "

Think you may have answered your own question there JustLyn...' as if it is another road '

Surely as well as additional rights it also means they have additional responsabilties for their own sakes as well as other peoples ?

JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 4-Jan-2019 20:37 Message #4732789

Yep, but they have no number plates to report them.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 4-Jan-2019 20:42 Message #4732790

I was asking opinions.

I agree with Minnie that caution is needed at all times.
But my opinion is some cycling should have more regulation such as in the driver in front of me situation, if a passing vehicle is indicating left, then they should hold back since the car is likely to travel faster, be heavier, have a less clear vision backwards, have blind spots is relying on rear view mirrors, and that if a cycle lane is busy, it could mean zero cars actually get through the green light when going straight on.

eurostar  Female  Merseyside 4-Jan-2019 20:49 Message #4732793
justlyn, you have dash cam...………..better than a fake number plate...……… what cars
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 4-Jan-2019 20:49 Message #4732794
I’m a regular cyclist and I think it’s time that cyclists had compulsary training and some test before being allowed in roads. So many accidents are cyclists being crushed under lorry wheels when the lorry turns left.
Even the most stupid cyclist should be holding back and not creeping alongside other vehicles in these instances. A mixture of arrogance, naivety and stupidly.
OnlineMSE  Male  Essex 4-Jan-2019 21:46 Message #4732796
I remember seeing signs on the back of a lorry once.
The one on the right said -Off side
The one in the middle said - Back side
The one on the left said - Sui cide!!

And what is it now with cyclists. I'm seeing more and more with no lights on their bikes. With the dark nights and gloomy days it makes them so difficult to see especially when the bike might be black and they're also dressed in dark colours.
I appreciate that drivers have to be careful when it comes to sharing road space with other users but other users should bear some responsibility too.
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 4-Jan-2019 21:52 Message #4732797
I saw a sign on the back of a lorry, it was above the tow bar.
There was a big arrow pointing towards the tow bar, and the sign said.

barney  Male  Surrey 4-Jan-2019 22:28 Message #4732799

On the farm I drove tractors either pulling trailers or wide implements and then lorries including the giant dump trumps in the quarry so I am pretty good at judging distances.
Plus when overtaking I use my wing and interior mirror so know when I am clear.
Around this area banging on the side of cars has become a habit both from cyclists and joggers and its uncalled for.
Most get away with it because nobody does anything about it but I am not prepared to put up with it.
fosy  Male  Leicestershire 4-Jan-2019 22:44 Message #4732800
im sorry barney but i have to agree with minnie on this one, being close enough for the cyclist to be able to touch your vehicle.

i know when im cycling i am hoping vehicles give me enough clearance so if i suddenly see a defect in the road [eg, sunken drain cover] i have enough room to take slight evasive action.

i will add that if you were that close to a cyclist whilst on a driving test you would have been marked down for it.
TheSarcasticOne  Male  Essex 5-Jan-2019 04:41 Message #4732805
There are two things here for me.

First, the difference between undertaking and travelling with the flow of the traffic.

The act of overtaking or in this case undertaking involves changing lanes, passing a vehicle and returning to the original lane.

Remaining in a single lane but moving faster than the lane to the right is not the same.

Second, like it or not, cyclists are road users and should be allowed room on the road. How many car drivers would be happy about huge lorries passing within a mirrors width?
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 5-Jan-2019 08:36 Message #4732807

If you are referring to cyclists, if not in an existing cycle lane. I can't think of a sensible situation where a cyclist is going faster than the car, and if they are, without a cycle lane, often overtake just like a car, and as you say, return to the nearside position, but my point was that a car ahead of them was turning and indicating left, but the cyclists just kept going onwards, undertaking the left turning car.

If you are referring to cars undertaking, or even a cyclist going at speed, travelling in the same direction, we should always default to the nearside lane and other road users should not undertake on the assumption the car they are undertaking is not moving back.

The addition problem is seeing in adding confusion is where there is a defined cycling lane where users often don't think or know they should give way to left turning vehicles because they possibly don't see it as undertaking.

I agree with HotOrWot that road cyclists should have to pass a basic test. I was reading a cycling publication last evening where it had been suggested all road cyclists should have some 3rd party liability. I also happen to comes across a series of instances where cyclists have killed or seriously maimed pedestrians by cycling through pelican crossings, thinking they have priority over those as well.

Eurostar, I don't have a cam on my bike, not yet anyway. I made sure I had one installed in my (new to me) 2015 Auris Hybrid last May because travelling into Manchester there are several "carving up" episodes from certain types of road users, not all cyclists. I haven't bothered so far, but the police now have special uploading websites to help them identify culprits. One favourite spot is a certain junction near White City Retail Park where van or taxi drivers choose the offside lane to go straight on, then make a left turn right across the front of nearside traffic who are also in the lane for going straight on. It's not because they have accidentally gone the wrong way, which doesn't justify that behaviour anyway, but to jump the queue which is rarely that much to bother about. I did ring the police a couple of weeks ago in case they wanted my dashcam because it captured one man being accosted by another with an iron bar.
tumbleweed  Male  Gloucestershire 5-Jan-2019 09:14 Message #4732808
Some cyclists do seem a bit gung ho in all sorts of situations. How they haven't been killed yet remains a mystery, but they will continue to do it until they are.

The ones that annoy me are the ones that come hurtling past pedestrians, on the pavements and alleyways etc. Usually immature dickbrains. It's a game to them. Arseholes!

There is a funny incident in an episode of Peter Kays Car share. A cyclist comes alongside at traffic lights, and plonks his water bottle on top of Peter Kays characters car. An incident then occurs, which ends up on youtube by the cyclist. Funny, but what a cheek. When is it ok to put your stuff on the roof of the car next door? I'm sure some must do it in real life, and think they are entitled.
Judance  Female  Berkshire 5-Jan-2019 11:09 Message #4732812
Being a car driver and a pedestrian with a grandson who cycles to and from school, I am often appalled at the actions of both cyclists and car drivers who simply do not allow for other road users.

My grandson has taken the safer cycling course that is essential if he is to be allowed to take his bike to school. He tells me that car drivers constantly pip their horns as he cycles along (I'm assured he is on the inside of the road) and he has also been knocked off his bike by a car driver turning left at a mini roundabout and overtaking him doing the same thing. He fell on to the pavement and his bike into the road. No-one from the cars waiting at the roundabout thought it a good idea to check if he was OK and the car was long gone by the time he picked himself up!
His friend had a similar experience but managed to stay on his bike but was forced into the kerb.

In the town centre, it is pedestrianised from 10-5pm but cycles are allowed. However there is a one-way system that is completely ignored during those times(and often when the road is open!) and you are not expecting them to come from the 'wrong' direction.
… and what is it with bells, or lack of?
Walking along the canal here (where it is signposted for cyclists to give way to pedestrians) and on shared footpaths they creep up behind you and force their way through without any warning. I nearly knocked a man off his bike a few days ago as I took a side-step to avoid a muddy patch and he was trying to come past. I hadn't heard the bike, no bell, no shout … what happens if you are deaf?
Nigel_In_Devon  Male  Devon 5-Jan-2019 11:21 Message #4732817
Just Lyn..."These were cyclists and cars going along the same road, but where the driver was turning left, technically, the cyclist could claim right of way going straight on."

The Highway code gives no one a right of way over another. It does suggest when others should give way to others though. In Driver or cycle training we don't talk about rights of way - there is no such thing, priority perhaps but not a right of way...unless you're feeling suicidal!

In the case of a cyclist waiting to go straight on and a car on the cyclists right waiting to turn left.

If the cyclist arrived first why on earth would the cyclist leave enough space for a car to fit alongside? If the lane is a left only lane he shouldn't be in it, if the lane is ahead or left then the cyclist should be in the middle of that lane preventing a car from pulling up alongside.
If the car arrived first then I cannot understand why a cyclist would pull up on the cars left! Wait behind the car in the middle of the lane!

Defensive cycling!

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