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15 years from now.

Britain in the European Union.

TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 6-Dec-2018 14:38 Message #4730311
Now that we know Britain is not leaving the European Union, What will things be like for us in 15 years time?
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 6-Dec-2018 14:40 Message #4730312
I forgot to mention the word uncertainty.
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire 6-Dec-2018 15:18 Message #4730313
Do you know something we dont then Herms cos I havent heard that we are leaving or staying... or have I misunderstood your posting
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 6-Dec-2018 15:24 Message #4730314
I've been following it, watching the stitch up unravel.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 6-Dec-2018 18:53 Message #4730331
15 years from now we will all, including the EU, be in a different place, as for still being in the EU as a remainer it dosent' bother me particularly. But its not a done deal yet, May's still got her talking shop and vote and then theres what parliament come up with as alternatives. You may still get your wish Hermit, but I suspect part of that wish is to feel you've been stitched by the goverenment and no deal they could ever come up with would be good enough for you.
Aely  Female  Hampshire 6-Dec-2018 19:25 Message #4730337
In the unlikely event that Mrs May's Leaving Agreement passes the vote on Tuesday, in 15 years time the Annexation by the EU of the country formerly known as Northern Ireland will be formally recognised by the UK as part of our ongoing negotiations for a decent trade deal and to increase our fishing quota in British waters to 2 fish fingers a year, if there are any fish left.
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 6-Dec-2018 21:14 Message #4730350
A deal WH? Some one said in parliament today, that the the PM saw Brexit as a problem to be managed rather than an opportunity.

The ballot paper never asked if I wanted the government to do a deal to see if we could leave the European Union. It asked me if I wanted to leave the European Union. Therefore I did not vote for a deal. I voted to leave the European Union.
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 6-Dec-2018 22:30 Message #4730354
Well the PM came back with a crap deal on purpose knowing it would be voted down, but what is the reason?

1. It's so she can go back to the EU to do better.
2. It's so parliament can cancel Brexit.
3. It's to get a 2nd referendum where the choice will be between remain or remain, so that those who voted leave won't bother to turn up.
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 6-Dec-2018 22:31 Message #4730355
Stop worrying Hermit and enjoy the pantomime.
The only way out of Brexit would be another vote.
If the government thought they could win another vote, it would already have happened.
It is hilarious, May deal or no deal, but apparently we are not allowed to have no deal.
So we are supposed to have this deal, if not the government will waste more time trying to find another way out.
TheSarcasticOne  Male  Essex 7-Dec-2018 04:28 Message #4730369
Some ignorance on my part here for these high level legal things.

I thought that we were out on 30th March 2019.

I thought that all they were discussing now, was how things work afterwards.

I thought we had a referendum and the people had voted AND that over ruled what MP's wanted.
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 7-Dec-2018 09:19 Message #4730372
Anything could happen , except a no deal WTO. I think they may have already passed a motion on that one. It seems that if the backstop is removed then the deal might go through, but they would have to extend article 50 for another year while May goes back to the EU.

It seems that the PM has wormed her way out of any responsibility because she can now blame parliament for preventing brexit, but we all know what a con that is.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 7-Dec-2018 10:34 Message #4730382
You wanted to "bring back control", well now you have parliament asserting itself to the executive.

I agree that May's deal will fail and that its the only deal available, Norway have said they won't agree to us joining EFTA as they see us as a disruptive influence. I might go along with the idea of some sort of conspiracy theory only I don't think anyone in government has the wit, intelligence or guile for it and nor do I think its some kind of civil service stitch up. I do think there are some in parliament who are clever enough to work a big stitch up, but they're no where near being in actual power.

If we were going to leave on WTO rules, we should have planed for that before triggering Article 50, I think the biggest failure of government and the Tory Party in particular has been its lack of preparedness, Cameron wasn't prepared for Leave to win and he had no plan of what to do, May is a control freak with a poisoned chalice, she is being made to drink down to the dregs and only time will tell if she has some kind of antidote. Given where she started from I think this deal is the best she could of got and its bl00dy awful, the worst of all worlds.

Northern Ireland was always the elephant in the room for Brexiteers, I don't think people like Boris Johnson and David Davis really understood the implication of leaving on the Good Friday Agreement, any mention of it was dismissed as project fear.

I wonder what will happen now to the Unionist cause in Northern Ireland, if they've been effectively sold down the river by the British Governent and a union they wish to remain a part of, how do they protest? Don't forget they have a military wing that was every bit as bad as the IRA, how will they react to what they will undoubtedly see as a betrayal? I think May thinks that because mainland parties don't have a pressence in NI they can do what they like to what is effectively our last remaining collony, for a self proclaimed one nation Tory I think she's doing more damage to the union than all the nationalist parties put together.
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 7-Dec-2018 11:14 Message #4730385
I suppose the option for the DUP would be to withdraw their support for the government which would trigger a general election. But would they want Corbyn?
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 7-Dec-2018 11:30 Message #4730386
"The only way out of Brexit would be another vote.
If the government thought they could win another vote, it would already have happened."

What good would another vote do?
They are talking about three options on the ballot paper if we have another "people's vote" - Leave on May's deal, Leave with no deal or stay in the EU.
Hands up anybody who thinks one of those options will win by a big margin? They would need preference voting as there are more than two options anyway.
Suppose the result is slightly in favour of remaining, are we going to kiss the last result and two years goodbye and pretend it never happened?
A general election is likely to end in a hung parliament, I will be amazed if Corbyn sweeps to power with a Blair like majority...

TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 7-Dec-2018 11:54 Message #4730387
I mentioned the three vote option before, but was informed by someone here that I was spreading fake news. The three vote option is designed to split the leave vote thus ensuring a victory for remain.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 7-Dec-2018 12:13 Message #4730390
That maybe so, but I don't see any surge in support for either leave or remain, so another referendum is unlikely to solve any problems.
If we have another vote, we should accept we are leaving and vote on May's deal or no deal.
Surely though, if we are asking people to vote on a specific deal then everybody should at least have access to the paperwork and be able to read all 500 pages to understand it?
Whether people can be bothered to read it is another matter...
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire 7-Dec-2018 12:19 Message #4730391
Just a thought, we could all be living on another planet in 15 years - yeah, I know some of us already do, but its a possibility isnt it.
tumbleweed  Male  Gloucestershire 7-Dec-2018 12:51 Message #4730395
It would be interesting to see what would happen if there were more options to vote for. But where do you draw the line on how many options, and how hard would they be to implement. Impossible, some of them.

With just the 2 options, leave or remain, it seemed pretty straightforward. Remain was to carry on as you were, Brexit was to get the hell out. Brexit won. But there are many 'added' things that now make it far from straightforward.

If there had been a remain option for instance, that included 'Sort out immigration...oh and while we are at it, we want more control over things, rather than some Brussel sprouts deciding everything, but we are willing to stay in the damn thing', ( some chance of any of that happening!!) then I would think that some brexiters may have voted for that. Immigration and taking back some control were two big issues. Some people won't admit that immigration was an issue, but in my opinion it very much is.

Other issues as well. But there seemed to be no chance at all of sorting any of them out if we remained. In fact, it was going to get worse and worse in my opinion. Brexit was the only option to take, the only option that was hopefully going to start sorting out the many issues.

I haven't a clue where we stand at the moment. I have mentioned before about people throwing spanners in the works, to mess it all up, to be able to say 'oh look, i told you Brexit wouldn't work'. And they will unfortunately continue to do so.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 7-Dec-2018 19:14 Message #4730409
I agree its all a big mess and I can't see any good way out of it, not one that satisfy's hard leavers or remainers, the country will still be split even if we have another referendum with three or four options. A general election would be a disaster, we'd likely end up with another hung parliament, in which case I think we'd have to try and suspend article 50 and have a government of national unity, except I don't think theres enough trust between the parties for that to work.

If there was another referendum and it went remain then, yes I think we'd have to forget the last two years, for at least a while.

That could actually work to our advantage if you look at the wider political situation, the markets are all very jittery and all the indications are that we could well have another depression, we don't want to be touting for trade when no ones got any money to invest. Europe will change, Macron is losing control and Merkel's sucessor will be chosen this weekend, I think the complexion in Europe will be very different in a years time and we could well be in a position to help define new arrangements.
Bewildered  Female  Norfolk 7-Dec-2018 20:09 Message #4730411
It would be interesting to see what the EU would really do, if May said not acceptable , NO DEAL,

I dont believe the EU would not come back with another offer/plan. They want to trade with us as much as we do the EU

There has been so much bias and scare mongering I am fed up with the whole thing.. we will be stitched up . lied to again and again

barney  Male  Surrey 7-Dec-2018 21:21 Message #4730414
In 15 yrs time there won't be a EU. It will have imploded. All the member Countries will have reverted back to their own governance and currencies etc.
In actual fact I don't think its going to take that long as its already started. People are waking up and seeing what a con it is. Except for the remainers here who have the neck to call us brexiteers stupid.
As for now the Government are determined to keep us in the EU.
So prepare yourselves for joining the Euro, paying more money into EU coffers. having the EU decide how much tax we pay, more ECJ rules and regulations, open door immigration.
Oh and don't forget joining the EU army of which we will pay the lions share as most of the other Countries don't pay anything or very little. Just look at NATO.

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