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The big brexit debate

will you be watching?

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Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 29-Nov-2018 13:00 Message #4729716
You've probably heard by now that it has been confirmed there is going to be a televised brexit debate on Sunday 09th December between Corbyn and May. Although, the "two sides" can't agree on what channel or what format the debate will take.
Amazingly, the BBC are hoping it will beat the viewing figures for "I'm a celebrity get me out of here"
Am I the only one asking why this is happening - has it come to this that the biggest thing to happen to this country in a generation is being debased in such a way? Don't we deserve to crash and burn for taking such a pathetic approach to this country's future?

Brexit is not a left versus right issue, it's not a labour versus conservative issue, so why are we treating it as such?
I am even more worried about the fact that TV news is pushing the agenda, Sky news has been banging on for weeks about forcing debates - their #makedebateshappen campaign has now got 100,000 signatures and Parliament have to debate the issue.
What the hell is happening? Sky news want to host debates, earn money from advertising around it and by plugging this campaign at every opportunity have almost forced Parliament to make it happen.
What's next, Sky news subtly urging viewers to demand a General Election so these debates can take place?
Is it me? Am I missing something?...
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 29-Nov-2018 17:28 Message #4729731
Its called desperation, May is desperate to get the deal through.
Corbyn is desperate to get an election.
Debates like this tend to happen when both sides feel they have nothing to lose.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 29-Nov-2018 17:30 Message #4729732
Its called desperation, May is desperate to get the deal through.
Corbyn is desperate to get an election.
Debates like this tend to happen when both sides feel they have nothing to lose.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 29-Nov-2018 18:57 Message #4729743
When I heard there was a spat about who should host the debate, I thought it just about sums up the whole fiasco that is Brexit. May is a control freak and was never going to let anyone else set the agenda, it would of been far better if it had been a cross party thing, with all parties and devolved governments being able to have a say,I think we should have worked more closely with Ireland to find a solution to the boarder problem. But May is a one nation tory and I don't think she likes the idea of devolved governments either, so we have a "tory" brexit. Not that I think Labour would of been any better, they would of been just as riven by infighting and just as unwilling to listen to anyone but their own reflections in the mirror.

I'm wondering if this is a dry run campaign for a possible second referendum, if May's deal dosen't get through parliament, which I don't think it will and nobody has any plan B then I can't see what choice they will have with a deadlocked parliament. I do think though if there were to be a second referendum then there should be more than two options, we should be able to vote for May's deal, no deal, staying in the EU and maybe joining EFTA or something. If we did decide to remain in the EU, it needn't be forever a properly worked out plan could be put to the people at a later date, either as part of a general election manifesto or as a seperate referendum.
Male
Nigel_In_Devon  Male  Devon 29-Nov-2018 20:05 Message #4729748
Pretty sure I'll be able to find something better to rather than watch this show.
Male
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 29-Nov-2018 20:15 Message #4729749
What could be more entertaining? Staring into space perhaps, or sticking pins in my eyes may be less painful. I don't think this pointless rubbish will grip the nation, just bore the pants off it if anyone bothers to tune in. I won't
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire 29-Nov-2018 20:43 Message #4729752
I don't see what will be gained by a "debate". May will come out with the same platitudes about concentrating on the fudge she has cooked up and Corbyn will restate his 6 "tests" ad nauseum. Corbyn will say her Fudge is poison and May will respond by saying he wants to bankrupt Britain. Back at home if any of the poor bloody public are actually watching they will be either tearing their hair out or contemplating suicide - or politiciancide.
Male
brisinger  Male  Lancashire 29-Nov-2018 21:02 Message #4729754
What's the point of a televised brexit debate? It's not exactly as if there's going to be an election going on where the public vote on it.
Male
brisinger  Male  Lancashire 29-Nov-2018 21:15 Message #4729755
All sides are whinging about whether it is more cost effective to be in/out of the EU. I stand to correct them. It would more cost effective if they stopped bliddy bickering.
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 29-Nov-2018 21:32 Message #4729756
I think it's actually the P.M. putting pressure on her own politicians to agree with her (the only) UK exit deal. She has stated quite clearly that a 'hard' exit is still possible. None of the arguing politicians will want that as they would be tainted forever more with possibly the worst outcome available. Corbyn is a bit of froth that May will use to spread her message - he doesn't have a coherent message of his own (apart from - 'let's have an election') so most of the debate will be May spreading her word to the viewers (who are also the electorate) to drive her Conservative doubters and enemies into lining up to support her.

She doesn't want a no-deal exit but will use it quite deliberately against the enemy within, the SNP, any Labour waverers and the DUP. It may still go badly wrong and the UK leaves without agreeing any deal but she will then be able to say to the country (electorate) "I did my best and got a workable deal but my opponents (SNP, DUP, Labour 'remainers' and Conservative rebels) all conspired to put the boot in and look at the mess they have caused."


I have looked in detail at the figures released recently by the Bank of England and the Chancellor about the impact of Brexit on the economy. The only thing that can be truly said about these figures is that they are a complete fabrication - in both cases the 'experts' have put their own guess of the future GDP, inflation. employment and currency value into a standard prediction formula - and come up with the figures published.

No justification, no reasoning just guesswork (crystal ball gazing). [These may be the same 'experts' who - just over 10 years ago - said "Sub-prime mortgages? A good way to keep the economy growing"]

SQL
Male
fosy  Male  Leicestershire 29-Nov-2018 22:19 Message #4729760
so is corbin a remainer or a leaver ? does anyone know ?

i think it should be May against a true brexiter, eg, Jacob Rees Mogg, to have a chance of a more balanced debate.
Male
barney  Male  Surrey 30-Nov-2018 00:35 Message #4729774
May wants the debate to be on the BBC. Well she would as the BBC are all for remaining in the EU same as May so they will stack it in their favour.
Corbyn wants it on ITV so not a good start.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 30-Nov-2018 07:48 Message #4729775
"so is corbin a remainer or a leaver ? does anyone know ?"

Good question - I always thought he was a staunch anti EU type but it's a job to know with him.
He will keep banging on about an election as the way to solve this - as if that will do any good at all, we leave the EU in three months time. Labour are trying to scare their way into power.
As for the Bank of England's intervention, you can only gawp in wonder - why didn't Carney paint such a gloomy picture two years ago before we all voted? I know he was a bit gloomy then, but now he is talking about 8% drop, recession worse than the "big crash", millions unemployed and the pound worthless.
I'm actually amazed that our economy hasn't crashed and burned in the last two years with all the negativity and in-fighting. Maybe it will actually be like ripping off a plaster, we will wonder what all the fuss was about...
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 30-Nov-2018 11:04 Message #4729790
Corbyn is a Corbyner, he's only interested in getting into power, he's not put forward anything substantive or positive as an alternative just come out with a load of BS about how we can renegoatiate a deal that the EU has said is the final ofereing and there can be no more negoatiations.

For hard brexiteers whatever Mark Carney and the BoE say is wrong what was project fear is now project hysteria.

Male
fosy  Male  Leicestershire 30-Nov-2018 11:16 Message #4729794
"the EU has said is the final ofereing and there can be no more negoatiations. "
do you really believe that ?

i would rather call their bluff than take the deal that may has got.
Male
barney  Male  Surrey 30-Nov-2018 14:51 Message #4729820
Trump called their bluff and the next day they were on a plane to Washington to beg for a deal.

You have to be strong, its the only thing they understand.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 9-Dec-2018 13:30 Message #4730500
Day of Brexit debate has arrived, but like much of the Brexit situation it has been cancelled from lack of … coordination? For want of a better word.

I believe May cancelled it, a decision couldn't be made on where to hold it. Ah shucks if they can't decide that, what chance of anything else. The EU is laughing, perhaps they deserve to win.

So, meaningful vote (the names they come with) will be beaten, and hey ho, they send her back to renegotiate, it makes you wonder why when it's so obvious after 2 years she has come up with a worse deal than actual membership. She refuses to resign, knowing surely, she just isn't getting the job done.

I think walk away with no deal. And watch the EU immediately make an offer, or be crucified by their german car industry.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 9-Dec-2018 13:42 Message #4730501
Well I heard Corbyn was being the difficult one. That seems to be the problem with the whole brexit issue, people are playing politics with it.
I hear the latest from Labour is they will attempt to form a minority Government if May's brexit agreement gets voted down. Are they serious? How do they propose to renegotiate brexit and run the country in such a way?
All they (momentum) are interested in is gaining power at any cost, they couldn't really give a stuff about brexit or what's best for the country...
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 9-Dec-2018 14:01 Message #4730502
Who knows what's best for the country. For trade the EU is doing rather well, if you don't mind all the caveats, politically its a shambles. But a promise is a promise, a political promise, to enact the result of the referendum. They are duty bound to carry it out.

Actually is almost amusing, to watch them pretend that is what they are doing, and think that Joe public is so stupid as to believe them. You can't stay in and be out at the same time, haha!

Jeremy blows with the wind, but he's a leaver for sure. I don't think it's an if for poor old Mrs May.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 9-Dec-2018 17:36 Message #4730512
Del Boy Cameron and Osborne created a situation to defeat Farage.
But Farage is now perfectly placed to return, with a new party.
Normally with EU matters, they just keeping having votes until they win one
Or better still do not let people vote at all. I am hearing talk that we did not understand enough about the EU
in 2016, to vote? The EU have not exactly helped with the deal offered.
Its the ultimate political hot potato, everyone that looks to gain ends up losing.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 9-Dec-2018 19:57 Message #4730517
I have to say TM has to be unique in managing to unite both the Leavers and the Remainers in this, by coming up with a deal which is foremost beneficial to the EU, in a cunning way, and drops the leavers and remainers in limbo!

But, we have to leave in March next year, Article 50 has been triggered. And interestingly it can only be extended if the EU agree to it being extended. And that's not likely unless a deal can be thrashed out, preferably to their advantage. Bad luck, they may just have to go for no deal Brexit.
Male
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 9-Dec-2018 22:53 Message #4730522
This deal of hers could be a ploy to get a WTO no deal. If she had intended a no deal at the outset, remainiacs could have accused her of not attempting a deal. So she got a rubbish deal that will have taken nearly three years, but the time it took has enabled Britain to prepare for Brexit. Logistics, contingency plans, diverting to ports, stockpiling or whatever you can think of.

But although I just thought up that conspiracy theory, it is too ridiculous even for me to contemplate as plausible. I shall stick with my original conspiracy theory, which was that she got a crap deal on purpose to get it voted down, thus getting a second referendum where the choice will be between remain or remain (her deal). This means that those who voted to leave last time won't bother to turn up to the ballot box.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 9-Dec-2018 23:37 Message #4730525
I like the first conspiracy theory. It makes her a good guy.

A second referendum is a Remainers undying dream! I don't think parliament would test it on a Brexiteer public, that is growing more outraged by the day.

She could postpone the vote on Tuesday, she must be aware she could lose her premiership if the result is what they have statistically predicted.

But if she goes ahead and Chequers fails she could then go back to Brussels and insist they change the customs union clause, to an agreed unilateral date for exit. Or we leave with no deal. It could put Brussels on the spot.
Male
TheHermit  Male  Oxfordshire 10-Dec-2018 00:01 Message #4730528
She won't lose her premiership. No one wants the job. That's why Mog couldn't get rid of her. They new no one would want to be a contender for the job, so there was no point in chucking their letters in.

As for your last point, this does seem to be the obstacle preventing MP's giving consent to her deal.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 10-Dec-2018 00:13 Message #4730529
Reece-Mogg jumped the gun. He should have done it after the meaningful vote.

If Chequers fails by more than 100 votes, or half of all conservative backbenchers she would be facing a crisis. I daresay Labour could pick that moment for a vote of no confidence, in the government. Or tories a no confidence vote in May.

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