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Vigilante Groups

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Chris2mates  Male  Lancashire 18-Nov-2018 18:47 Message #4728792
I've read reports in the past two weeks that indicate Vigilante Groups are increasing in number from anti-peado groups to local patrols.

The report includes a Police recommendation to crack down on these groups but it's not really clear why this action is sought?

Would you feel safer if local Vigilante Groups were more visible?
Female
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire 18-Nov-2018 19:47 Message #4728794
Certainly not. Every British subject has the legal right to a fair trial.

Especially when the average numpty doesn't know the difference between a paedophile and a paediatrician.

If this is true, and not just a Daily Mail wind up, it just reinforces my sense that this country is descending into complete moral collapse.
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Cautious1954  Female  Berkshire 18-Nov-2018 20:00 Message #4728795
I don’t think there is any place in society for vigilantes. Most of the time they seem to target the wrong person and they rely on creating a hatred for their victim and then abuse that victim or put the victims life in danger without any evidence or trial.
I don’t think they are the brave warriors they attempt to portray but rather law breaking bullies justifying their own violence.
I have seen this first hand when a local lad I knew very well killed himself due to false accusations by so called vigilantes.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 19-Nov-2018 10:32 Message #4728825
I agree with Minnie, but there are some paedophile hunters who do try very hard to work with police and give them evidence to take to the CPS, the police seem to have very mixed feelings about this, some forces seek more co-operation and engagement and offer some training whilst others see them as a nuisance. I hate the idea of mob justice, its no different to bullying and just as destructive.

But maybe if we had a better funded police service people would be less likely to try and take the law into their own hands, its been slowly happening for years now, you get burgaled and you phone the police and all you get is a crime number for your insurance claim. We need a better funded NHS so as when people are in a mental health crisis they don't end up being dealt with by police or in the criminal justice system. We need properly funded refuges for victims of domestic violence of both sexes so as they have somewhere safe to go and not have to stay in an abusive situation.
Female
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire 19-Nov-2018 10:50 Message #4728831
No, I think vigilante groups are terrible, terrible things. We need to invest more funds in the police force & justice system to enforce law & order in the correct way, and to make people fully aware of whats right & wrong and enforce the penalites for breaking the law, not giving out ASBO's and suspended sentences.

We need more money for all these things and the only way I can see to get this is a crackdown on the benefit system to knock out all those who are abusing it.

Years ago, the police were a force to be reckoned with, and people respected them, along with teachers & parents, and authority in general. Respect has gone out of the window .

I am often amazed at the way children speak to their parents in public, and the way the parents act as well. We have so many different cultures here now no one seems to respect anyone else's culture.
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Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 19-Nov-2018 11:14 Message #4728834
I don't think vigilantes are a new thing and if the police, NHS and everything else had all the funding they need (whatever that might be), you'd still have them.
To me, it's on par with a paedophile getting seriously beaten up in prison by an armed robber or a murderer and people being OK with it - as if the robber/murderer somehow holds the moral high ground, I have never understood that way of thinking.

Given that it's overwhelmingly men we are talking about here, maybe on this "International men's day" it's about time society took a long hard look at itself and how men actually fit in, or don't, as the case may be.
It is "World Toilet Day" too so maybe it would be best to not get our hopes up too much...
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tumbleweed  Male  Gloucestershire 19-Nov-2018 11:56 Message #4728839
I must have misread the last thread about World toilet day, and have been celebrating it since, thinking that it was already happening. I wondered why I was getting funny looks. Now I have got to celebrate it all over again.

With regards to vigilante groups. there are plenty of mixed feelings.

If it is all done a 'proper' way, with 100% evidence, no violence, calling the police to the scene for arrests to be made, and then a court case deciding the punishment etc, then that can be acceptable, and also much needed in times of lack of police at the scene.

If it is a real 'taking the law into your own hands' vigilante group, with no evidence, lots of violence, no police etc, then that seems to be really unacceptable, especially on an innocent person, but even on 'guilty' people.

I understand how people want to react to certain situations, especially if there is a lack of police interest, and I can honestly say that I don't know how I would react if I found out any of my family had been abused and raped etc. I would like to think I would hand it all to the police, but then again...

I also don't understand 'Citizens arrest' and what you are allowed to do, or in what circumstances you are allowed to do it. In some of the videos I have seen, the groups use Citizens arrest on the criminal, until the police arrive, but they then say they can use 'reasonable force' to restrain them. This 'reasonable force' is then used when the 'arrested' tries to wriggle free. The more they try to get free, the more 'reasonable force' is used.

I saw one video, where the 'captured' person bit off one of the 'vigilantes' fingers.
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Chris2mates  Male  Lancashire 19-Nov-2018 12:56 Message #4728844
The report I read in the news (not the Mail) said "Hundreds of residents have formed a 'vigilante' neighbourhood watch group following a failed campaign to increase the number of police officers on the streets.

The community watchdog group, known as 'We Stand Determined', stage twice-weekly patrols across Birmingham since it was set up on social media three weeks ago.

Members say they are working together to report any dangers the community may face across Britain's second largest city amid fears crime is spiralling out of control.

The group originally was an unsuccessful petition to get more police in the area."

For the past 4 nights, I have been targeted with local youths banging on the windows to the house. It's very unnerving. On Saturday they started before it got dark and when my daughter went 'to have a word' they retreated and started to wave and cheer etc. The effect is very unsettling when you don't feel safe in your own home. This is clearly happening in other areas (according to the news) and to be honest in the absence of more Police presence, I can see this increasing.

There are those who will take the law into their hands in the absence of any official response and in those circumstances (and whilst I don't endorse any physical contact) I understand how they feel.

What is the best answer to anti-social behavior?
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tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 19-Nov-2018 13:49 Message #4728847
In most instances a good neighbourhood watch system could be more use than bands of marauding nutters indulging themselves.
If the so-called vigilantes were to gather evidence and work with police then they might be useful but that generally is not the case.
Male
BlackMark1  Male  Leicestershire 25-Nov-2018 22:37 Message #4729488
Vigilante groups in the U.K. have not become the norm as they have in other countries I have lived in. Sometimes the groups are started by those who genuinely care but they are very quickly joined or infiltrated by the criminal fraternity who want power or an excuse for violence. Very soon the groups become a law unto themselves and have nothing to do with justice.
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NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 25-Nov-2018 23:48 Message #4729489
You mean like playing cowboys?
We used to do that when we were kids, but we had to stop.
One lad saw a film where a cowboy jumps off a cliff, straight on to his horse and rides away.
He wanted to do it, but he did not have a horse or a cliff, so he improvised.
He went on a garage roof and jumped on to his bicycle, he did not play out again for weeks?
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TheSarcasticOne  Male  Essex 26-Nov-2018 01:17 Message #4729494
In most cases, it is not a lack of police that is the root of the problem.

In most cases, the problem can be tracked to a lack of prison places and too much luxury in those that we have.

Sentences halved by default.

Suspended sentences.

Cautions and warnings.

Prisoners have too many rights.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 26-Nov-2018 16:56 Message #4729540
Have you been to the big house TS1?.
Can't be very pleasant in there.
Did you get plenty of Sex?
Male
Nigel_In_Devon  Male  Devon 27-Nov-2018 05:28 Message #4729580
Chris2mates..."Would you feel safer if local Vigilante Groups were more visible?"

On the contrary, I'd feel less safe.

Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 27-Nov-2018 22:32 Message #4729633
Vigilantes create more danger and problems to the community and don’t make anything safer.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 19-Jan-2019 08:53 Message #4733599
I don't know the answer. Having seen/heard of success and failure of such groups I can't make my mind up. As a society aren't we supposed to watch out for each other? give help when needed? etc.etc. is it a societal thing and not a governmental thing?

What I am sure about is that prison isn't this picture some people think it is, yes, some will talk about how easy it is, many won't...and imagine if you were put in a room for hours on end and unable to open the door or look out of the window, all to often we forget the simplicity of being able to move from one room to another without having to have the door unlocked!

Would I feel safer if more local vigilante groups were visible? no, because as in so many other areas of life those with the loudest voice, bullies, greedy and manipulative people, the selfish, judgemental and those with money, power and influence eventually end up running the show.

What next, a private police force?
Female
Clocky  Female  the West Midlands 19-Jan-2019 11:34 Message #4733605
I live in the area that Chris is referring to. Just to put the record very straight ...these are NOT vigilanties they are neighbours that have clubbed together to hire proffessional security to patrol the area. Any incidents are reported to the police.
The police hold regular community meetings literally down the end of my street ...at 3:45 on a weekday! Most of the residents around here are at work during the meeting times ...it beggars belief!

In the last year we have had numerous hit n runs resulting in deaths. Numerous stabbings by gangs from outside the area targetting teenage boys on their way home from school. Attacks on pensioners for no reason. Cars stolen from drives on a regular basis ... usually top end cars. Tradesmen have their vans broken into regularly, sometimes resulting in the closure of their small businesses. The list is endless ... the local police stations were deemed unneeded because the crime here was too low to warrent the expense. Since then rhe crime rate has soared . People here want a pilice presece now that they cant have police stations.

Chris ... not everything you read, wherever you read it, is true. Whoever writes for a living needs to sell their work and have to dramatise it for it to sell.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 19-Jan-2019 11:41 Message #4733606
Maybe I should amend my previous comment about vigilante groups being more visible...that might be better than having them as they are now, generally clandestine groups of people with very little oversight. Maybe it would be better to know who they are and where they are?

Does this allow the conversation to extend to Human Rights and the current concerns?
Female
Clocky  Female  the West Midlands 19-Jan-2019 19:48 Message #4733646
Terry ... i dont see why the discussion cant go that way, as long as it covers everyones human rights. .. even those causing the problems.


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