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Of The Herd Kind

OTB  Male  Dorset 29-Sep-2018 22:15 Message #4726164
You humans regard yourself as being at the top of the food chain, describing yourselves as a sentient, self aware, technological species holding dominion across all of planet Earth … and your whole culture is built, (has always been built), on exploiting, just about, every other life form, (flora and fauna), that you have ever discovered or encountered.

You claim to be an inquisitive, adventurous race and, further, claim to hold aspirations of exploration that will, one day, lead you to discover the entire physical, scientific and philosophical purpose of existence itself.

Such big questions are, (you claim), connected, intimately, with what it is to be human … and you boast and crow of the wondrous things you intend to learn and unravel regarding the universe you inhabit.

You ponder such huge questions from the misguided perspective that you represent the pinnacle of existence, the culmination of all there has ever been.

So … what happens when alien ships amass over all the human cities of the world … and alien visitors and Humanity prepare to meet for the very first time?

Such a day, such a moment, such a historic period in time will, surely, represent the most profound event in Human history … won't it?

The alien ships would descend and, as 8 billion intelligent hominid apes awaited such an historic event, the ramps of the leviathan interplanetary ships would be lowered to allow their alien occupant to make their grand arrival.

But, with absolute horror, humanity would recoil … with guilt, shame, incredulity … and absolute terror.

The superior, technologically advanced, alien visitors are … Bovine!

What humans have always described as … cattle.


How, in the name of God, would Humanity even begin to get themselves out of that kind of a situation?

How could Mankind talk its way out of a reality that denied the, abhorrent, treatment involving the culture, management, global exploitation and mass mechanization of bovine slaughter that had permeated human existence for thousands of years?

(It would be exactly the same nightmare if the alien visitors were Avian … or Feline … or Canine).

Sure, this sounds like a science fiction tale I’ve manifest from my own fertile imagination but, seriously, does it not also highlight the true, cruel, nature of a species that has treated, just about, every other species with absolute contempt?

Perhaps it would take such a scenario for Humanity to see itself through one of Victoriana’s mirrors!
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 29-Sep-2018 23:02 Message #4726165
We would be more worried about the new grass burgers at Macdonalds.
While looking at pigs and teddy bears flying in the sky.
See your point though, why would we expect Aliens to treat us any better?
If we are 2nd in the food chain to Bovines we would be ok, unless they have changed diet.
TheSarcasticOne  Male  Essex 29-Sep-2018 23:08 Message #4726166
What or Who is God?

What happens when those Aliens are us, form the past, present or future?
OTB  Male  Dorset 30-Sep-2018 01:47 Message #4726172
I'm not sure diet would be the issue. I mean. Imagine the wrath such aliens would deliver in reparation of the way we had butchered their kind on an industrial scale. (A scale that mimics or exceeds even the depravation humans delivered via the holocaust).

And yes, S1, I did use the term 'God' but only because it would have been bizarre to have listed a whole gamut of, apparent, dieties or belief systems simply to cover all bases.

And we might ask ...

In a universe, (thanks to the Kepler space laboratory), believed to contain more planets than stars, I wonder how other intelligent alien beings would rate us on some moral scale when it came to being the custodians of a localised, star based, planetary system?

Mmmh. Could there be some, universal, moral law of the universe?

Aside from all our Earth based crimes against Gaia, I also have concerns with the likes of Elon Musk, (CEO of Space X), holding plans to nuke a pristine, untouched Martian atmosphere, (and terrain), with the idea of terraforming such a body of real estate to force or encourage Mars to, eventually, grow an atmosphere suitable, (according to him), for humans to live on Mars without self contained life support apparatus.

Alien Technology

One fascinating aside from the obvious implications of humans meeting, alien based, life forms involves technology in general.

I mean, in a universe like ours, (though other universes are available), is it likely that E=MC2 has also been discovered? And is it a given that devices such as the wheel, the Archimedes screw or the law of the lever have manifest themselves in parallel alien cultures?

It remains likely that any intelligent or sentient life forms out there in the universe are more likely to be machine intelligence based, (and, therefore, immune from death / time / extinction events), and it is highly likely that any device or being capable of traversing the vast distances of space would, probably, be so far advanced as to view humanity as little more than insects anyway.

So ... going back to the thrust of the post, I'm merely asking others to contemplate WHY humans, as a species, should think they should feel so comfortable in believing that they are the bestest things since sliced bread!?!
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 30-Sep-2018 10:57 Message #4726180
I think sliced bread is part of the answer, I think the advent of farming and city living and hieracrchies has removed us further and further from our sources of sustanence and our dependence on the natural world. To link farming to this might sound strange, but we have made many of the creatures we share the planet with into commodities, especially our food animals. We actually eat fewer types of food now than we did as hunter gatherers, we're less healthy too, of course the other side of the equation is what have these species gained from alignment with us? They've been hugely successfull they've spread across the globe along with humans, there are more cows, sheep, dogs and cats than humans, plants too have benefitted, apples, maize, wheat, potatoes, tomatoes have all come on a global journey with humans. You could turn the question around and ask who's contolling who, are we blindly using are technological arrogance to transport other life forms around the planet and eventually to new planets.

It is part of the Gaia Hypothesis that Gaia wants to reproduce and to do this she needs a species to be technologically able enough to get to other planets and seed them with life from this one.

I think monotheism is partly to blame too, when we stopped believing that the Gods were there for animals too and not just humans and that animals were put on the planet to service our needs.

But instead of sitting there wondering if you should feel guilty about being a human, do positive stuff for your human and non human community, pick up litter, make your garden a bit more wildlife friendly, don't buy shit you don't need. If you couldn't bring yourself to kill it, don't eat it.
justfem  Female  Cambridgeshire 30-Sep-2018 14:43 Message #4726199
I blame McDonalds ;-)
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire 30-Sep-2018 18:05 Message #4726205
Mumsie  Female  Warwickshire 30-Sep-2018 18:50 Message #4726209
blimey this is all above me , this great thinking and discussion
TheSarcasticOne  Male  Essex 30-Sep-2018 19:52 Message #4726219
Humans are the problem with Gaia Theory.

We keep making people live when they should not.

We keep enabling over population.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 3-Oct-2018 11:05 Message #4726344
Which is part of what could drive us to colonise other planets.
Timmee  Male  Hampshire 4-Oct-2018 12:40 Message #4726407
If we ever were to be visited by 'aliens' then the very fact of their arrival would suggest overwhelming technological superiority. We'd have to hope they were Mr. Spock/David Attenborough types, and NOT colonisers! What they looked like would be a relatively unimportant for us.
Timmee  Male  Hampshire 4-Oct-2018 12:44 Message #4726408
An extra thought:
My last point about the aliens is one that our current race and identity obsessed activists might to well to consider.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 4-Oct-2018 18:55 Message #4726417
I'm not sure what they looked like would be that unimportant to us, especially if they were friendly, or at least not into enslaving and conquering us. I've been doing a lot of reading into human genetics and prehistory, we are such a mix of different human species, most humans have neanderthal genes, with western Europeans having between 1 and 5% neaderthat DNA, then theres the Denisovans, we still don't know much about them yet, but we do have their genome and can find some genes of theirs in modern human populations, particularly Tibetans. It seems that Denisovan DNA gives Tibetans the ability to live at such high altitudes, theres tantilising hints of other contributors too far back in our history, I think humans being what they are, somebody would try and have sex with an alien species, we may or may not find ways to breed with them, but sex and breeding are two totally different things, so providing they didn't look totally to our eyes weird then I think looks would be important.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 8-Oct-2018 08:34 Message #4726592

Your posts reminded me of Stsrtrek and aliens the introduced.

Since Startrek brought the delights of Spock, the Data (and his intrigue on his pet cat) we had The Borg and their assimulation of technology and body parts. I loved a "good guy" Hugh episode where he was stranded on The Enterprise starship and his humanness and individuality began to extract itself.

What we need in our real world is the Startrek Directive where humanity had learned to respect difference and not mine off other living creatures or drop our rubbish on them.

OTB  Male  Dorset 9-Oct-2018 23:50 Message #4726740

The Gaia principle infers that living organisms interact with their inorganic surroundings on Earth to form a self-regulating, synergic, system that helps to maintain and perpetuate the conditions for life on earth.

I’m not sure such a principle would encourage evolution or advancement upon the earth to include making life on earth redundant … in search of encouraging life on earth to emigrate to other systems … though, I accept, that nature, (using a remit BEYOND the Gaia principle), might, (painting a bigger picture), pursue such an option.

Just saying … “The Gaia principle”, or our current interpretation of such a principle, has, so far, been interpreted as being a ‘local’ earth bound hypothesis.

If nature holds some remit to expand life from some localised planetary system to another, that process should be labelled accordingly … perhaps being renamed as some Exo-Gaia principle.

As to the synergy or ‘working together’ that humans have employed with regards to genetically changing existing life on earth, those changes have been clearly documented and, yes, genetic modification is not a new technology.

From the tinkering with wolf genes, (to create hundreds of new, human friendly, dog species), to the creation of staple crops like corn, (an entirely alien and artificially man made genre of crops), we have been messing with nature for hundreds of thousands of years, BUT … while such manipulation has served us well over time, we have, ultimately, been violating the general rules of nature and now, in the 21st century we inhabit, such actions have brought us to a point where our earth, and our space around the earth, has been turned into a cesspit on a scale that makes our whole earth environment little more than a latrine.
OTB  Male  Dorset 9-Oct-2018 23:56 Message #4726741
Justfem, Victoriana, Mumsie,

Your pathetic utterances represent the millions or billions of humans who refuse to acknowledge the peril humanity has placed upon its own future existence … though, thankfully, Gaia, (Earth), will recover easily the moment humans no longer blight her surface.
OTB  Male  Dorset 10-Oct-2018 00:01 Message #4726742

Whatever percentage of humanity we were ... Well, It just wouldn't matter.

Just admit it ...

We've broken our planet!

Sure. It'll recover ...

But only after we have ceased to be a guest on its surface.
warmundeft  Male  Wrexham 10-Oct-2018 00:51 Message #4726745
Perhaps Abraham Lincoln could throw some light here:
"You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today."

A blockage necessitated digging out drains to find a portion clogged with roots and everything else which, usually, conveniently disappears.
My 6-year-old granddaughter came round to see what I was working on. She had supposed that when a toilet was flushed the contents just 'went away'. The evidence of our own eyes shows that there are a great many folk who have a similar outlook: 'Just throw it away.' But perhaps, Earthpeople, we are learning, and hopefully in time.

Paraphrasing Abe Lincoln again (although I might need correcting)
"If you consider the people insufficiently well-informed, then it is your responsibility to inform them." But not necessarily by ramming down their throat. Sir David Attenborough deserves all the acclaim going for his 'Blue Planet II'.
warmundeft  Male  Wrexham 10-Oct-2018 20:27 Message #4726807
Thought I was mistaken on the source - bit of cut & paste from General Knowledge 101:
"I know of no safe repository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education."
-Thomas Jefferson
And 'shh' I've missed an 'it' after ramming.

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