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Gay Marriage

Cof E is

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wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 12-Jun-2012 19:07 Message #4152711
getting its panties in a bunch again over the whole thing. its argument seems to be that marriage is for procreation, and as gay people can't procreate they can't be married. The government has said that no church will be forced to marry anyone

I know we've discussed this before, but its become topical again, I really can't see what all the fuss is about.

How will gay people being allowed to marry ruin marriage?

If marriage acts as social glue, then why do only males and females need to be glued together?

Whats the big deal about marriage anyway, its only a piece of paper, surely how you live day to day is what makes a relationship a sucess?
Trotter  Male  Devon 12-Jun-2012 19:27 Message #4152728
'Marriage' and 'Civil Partnership' seem to me to be the same thing - two people wanting to express their commitment to each other. If a gay couple wish their commitment to be deemed a marriage I cannot see what the fuss is about. Why do we need two lables for the same product? If the Church (or some of them) hold on to their theolgical definitions that is a matter for them - but it does not say much for the 'inclusivness' that they are always spouting. The old legal definition of marriage' being the voluntary union for life of one man to one women to the exclusion of all others' has been dead for donkeys years and most churches have come around to recognising this in other aspects ot the definition. Why not in the case of gay marriage.
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire 12-Jun-2012 19:30 Message #4152732
It seems like there is a basic misunderstanding by the church about what it means to be gay. It's like they think that a homosexual couple are depriving two hetero singles the possibility of a partner. It's laughable really.
Why shouldn't a couple who just happen to be homosexual have the same protection that a heterosexual couple have in law? It's awful to think that one of a couple who have been together for decades dies or becomes seriously ill and the other could be excluded both physically and financially, just because they are not kin.
The (one) trouble with the church is that they want everyone to fit into the nice little niches that they have predetermined because we are easier to control by guilt. Never mind that it might result in unkind or inhumane practices.
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 12-Jun-2012 19:54 Message #4152747
"so does that mean couples who cant (or don't want to) have kids can't get married?"

The Church has certainly been against the marriage of couples who were thought to be unable to be parents-people with learning disabilities weren't allowed to have Christian weddings until quite recently, and even now children with learning disabilities are denied the sacrements of confession, communion and confirmation.
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire 12-Jun-2012 21:13 Message #4152807
But why? Why should that be bad between two consenting adults???
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 12-Jun-2012 21:18 Message #4152816
It's ironic that the Church has closed its eyes to the (often) forced buggery that goes on its ranks, but goggles at a bit of buggery that only plays a small in a loving and stable relationship.
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 12-Jun-2012 21:21 Message #4152821
I know lots of priest and vicars who are great people, but I've also met lots of clerics who are sods.
Infinity67  Female  Cornwall 12-Jun-2012 21:24 Message #4152824
Excellent Scooble. I have another excuse not to get married again
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 12-Jun-2012 21:28 Message #4152828
The Church has always tried to control peoples' sexuality by making the act of sex 'dirty', now the CofE is worried that it will lose a bit more of its power as the established church.
Darcyman  Male  East Yorkshire 12-Jun-2012 22:22 Message #4152863
All religion is steeped in hypocrisy.
fosy  Male  Leicestershire 12-Jun-2012 23:07 Message #4152899
"Why shouldn't a couple who just happen to be homosexual have the same protection that a heterosexual couple have in law? It's awful to think that one of a couple who have been together for decades dies or becomes seriously ill and the other could be excluded both physically and financially, just because they are not kin."

i thought this was solved by the introduction of the "civil partnership"

Pre-civil partnership law means that same-sex couples often suffer severe hardship because tax law does not recognise their relationships. For example, if one partner dies, leaving everything to the survivor, the survivor may have to sell the couple’s home in order to pay the inheritance tax (IHT) bill. This gross unfairness will, happily, soon be a thing of the past! For couples who choose to register a civil partnership, the position will be exactly the same as for married couples. If one dies, leaving everything to the other, the survivor need not pay a penny in inheritance tax, even if he or she inherits millions!
Shamrock14  Female  Berkshire 12-Jun-2012 23:19 Message #4152912
The Catholic church has much the same view!

I find that ironic from an organisation that is riddled with paedos!!

if people love each other enough to want to marry..then so be it..there's enough shoit going on in the world today..who are we to dictate to others..and tell them their love isn't deserving of marriage.

If I could, I'd turn the clock back and let one of the gay couple use my turn at marriage cos I'm sure they are loikely to make a better go of it than I did. I swear we live in a very fcuked up world...where religious parties who profess to being tolerant of actuality are inciting hatred and fear in the population.

"Think for yourself and question everything!"
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Celt  Male  Ceredigion 13-Jun-2012 06:29 Message #4152960
Good morning Steve.

Sometimes, heterosexual couples partake of a bit of bottom love (apparently). Should they be shot, or just not be allowed to get married?

Steve1959  Male  Nottinghamshire 13-Jun-2012 06:35 Message #4152961
Good Morning Celt

Definately shot. That would then negate any marriage
LutonLady  Female  Bedfordshire 13-Jun-2012 07:09 Message #4152965
I would have thought with all the hatred and unhappiness in the world the church would be the first to welcome anyone wanting to express their love for one another. Strange that you can be a murderer or paedophile and be welcomed by the church. that is presuming you're not actually employed by the church of course.
persona_non_grata  Male  North London 13-Jun-2012 07:57 Message #4152975
...and men who engage in anal sex with other men or women? Banished to hell? lol.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 13-Jun-2012 10:58 Message #4153040
Many gay men don't practice anal sex, as they find it uncomfortable or painful.

Nobody is targetting the CofE, the CofE are making the point themselves, being the established church I guess it does have an impact on them as everybody has the right to marry in their parish church, this right has been there since the church was established and there were few or no alternative venues for marriage. I think they fear that somebody might go to the high court and say thier human rights are being breached if gay people can legally marry but churches don't have to agree to marry them. Other religions not being established and so not having obligations enshrined in law don't have the same issues the CofE does, although they may have moral ones.

I guess its one of those issues that adds to the argument for church and state to disestablish.

Whilst the government is going about making marriage legal for gay people, they could do something about non Christian groups being allowed to legally marry in thier own temples and places of worship. My son and DinL had to have civil ceremony as well as the Hindu one to be legally married.
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 13-Jun-2012 12:27 Message #4153084
"Why are Gays just not happy with the Civil Ceremonies alone ?"

Perhaps for the same reason that heterosexual couples want to get married in church GH.

"Why do they wish to take it into a Church atmosphere... if its a controvertial area to begin with ? "

At one time it was controversial to allow black people into churches, now it is not. Surely the Church is strong enough to allow gay people into it.

"Will this have an affect of not respecting Church goers beliefs including the Vicar ... "

Many vicars are gay GH. And if church goers feel that being gay is not respecting their beliefs, why did God make some people gay? Surely in God's eyes, heterosexual humans and gay humans are equal?
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 13-Jun-2012 12:57 Message #4153093
There are lots of homosexual vicars (and at least one bishop) GH.

According to a survey in one of today's papers, over 60% (I think) of Christians feel comfortable with gay marriages. Perhaps, the CofE should be split into two separate churches - one being disestablished (the one that does not allow gay marriages), and the other staying established (and allowing gay marriages), and continuing to receive state hand-outs.
itsnotme  Female  Tyne and Wear 13-Jun-2012 12:59 Message #4153095
Archdeacon Robert is gay.
itsnotme  Female  Tyne and Wear 13-Jun-2012 13:00 Message #4153096
... and tbh, I have my doubts about Nigel too.
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 13-Jun-2012 13:05 Message #4153099
That's two and a probable then Mix.

And how about some of the saints? St. Sebastian comes to mind. And lots of the Popes.
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 13-Jun-2012 13:08 Message #4153102
Ah, I see where you are coming from Mix. But Archdeacon Robert refused to become a bishop because of that, didn't he.
Celt  Male  Ceredigion 13-Jun-2012 13:11 Message #4153103
I think his 'Vicarage' could have secret tendencies too.

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