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gosh london like a war zone

hackney and lewshisham ,now attacked

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joolsy  Female  Essex 8-Aug-2011 19:18 Message #3846761
omg London is like a war zone ..where is David cameron ..jeez ...
joolsy  Female  Essex 8-Aug-2011 19:27 Message #3846782
its blinking scarey joggins eh ..i have friends and family in hackney ..cant understand why theres no fire engines ..shops and flats just burning ..
-Soulmajik  Female  Dorset 8-Aug-2011 19:37 Message #3846807
Had the looting just half a mile from me last night.

Perhaps there is some copycat about it but perhaps it's also as if the disaffected have been given permission to act out. Around here, libraries are closing, charities have folded, some children's playgrounds are locked, most are locked after 3pm. All this is due to cuts in funds and yet somehow there seems to be money to erect fancy new streetlights lining the routes around the Olympic main site, yet those streetlights were only replaced two years ago. The council has found money to paint and pretty up shop fronts, to replace perfectly good asphalt paving with pretty brick patterned ones, to paint kerbstones white, to remove perfectly healthy and non-obstructive trees from formerly tree lined streets. All this in the name of trying to look good on the international stage next year.

Is it any wonder that the young have no faith in either local or national politicians, in the lack of job opportunities, in not having places where they are allowed to congregate without being viewed as up to no good. They are simmering. When a child isn't listened to, when their needs are ignored, when they feel invisible then be sure that they will act out just to let you know they are still around. They are full of resentment ... "you don't listen to or respect me so have some of this".

On an individual scale, yes we are listening and communicating with each other. As a society, we have lost the plot big time.
joolsy  Female  Essex 8-Aug-2011 19:49 Message #3846835
why doint they bring the army in ..i feel so sad ...the police have lost control imo ..building just left to burn ..were will these people be housed .eh ..they got to do something before people are killed ..
Arbreorapiny  Male  North East London 8-Aug-2011 19:56 Message #3846845
"...The council has found money to paint and pretty up shop fronts..."

"The Council" dont pay for this at all, its done using money from European funding, I know this because I sat as the Finance representative on Economic Development Grant Panels for the London Borough of Waltham Forest for about 8 years.
The owners of the shops pay a fair percentage of the costs too and have to make sure the works wherever possible include things like disabled access etc.

The funding for any other improvements will also be predominantly from non-Local Authority funding.

The funding is provided by EU Financed grants as the area is deemed to be in dire need of improvement and investment and will have fulfilled criteria as a deprived social and economic area.

So yobs doing their current thing is totally self defeating and unjustifiable.
Being dissaffected is no excuse, thee is a big difference between being ot listeed to and willfull destruction (throwing toys out of the pram).
Honey  Female  East Anglia 8-Aug-2011 20:00 Message #3846850
It has been a pot waiting to boil over for a long time.
JollyJules  Female  Surrey 8-Aug-2011 20:06 Message #3846865
Bring in the fire brigade and hose them down with the high power water jet.. . .having added a nice bright and long lasting dye first. Police can then round up the looters/rioters at their leisure :o)

I had originally elsewhere suggested high volocity water on gangs when they congregate so adding the dye to rioter/looters seems a logical step.

I caught a glimpse of the London Metro this morning and Mayor Boris was quoted as saying "there's nothing I can do, I'm staying on holiday".
Arbreorapiny  Male  North East London 8-Aug-2011 20:08 Message #3846870
Anyone would think the Riots were happening where the Conservatives dont have any MP's or something...
romantIcsole  Male  Northumberland 8-Aug-2011 20:14 Message #3846882
Its so sad to hear about the buildings burning, one carpet store had 22 flats above with families losing everything.
Lets hope things calm down as soon as poss.
-Soulmajik  Female  Dorset 8-Aug-2011 20:14 Message #3846885
It may be self defeating, but angry disaffected youths are never logical. I can understand their frustration though. There is fault on both sides and neither side is doing anything but chuck insults, disrespect and accusations at each other.

I see no evidence of our council engaging with these youngsters. There is no effective dialogue.

I see plenty of no go zones being applied for, i.e. no congregating of more than two people in a given area. I see the lack of facilities for the young, and the old, and the disabled. I see plenty of back slapping by the council in their free newspaper they put through our doors, on how much money they are saving, on how they are working so hard to make the area look nice for the Olympics.

Deprived social and economic area? Most likely, but new street lights to replace one's that were only put there two years ago? That's just one example of money wasted since it does nothing to improve the area economically beyond what it might gain from Olympic tourists. International visitors will be coming to see the Olympics, not notice the difference in current and two year old street lights. And padlocks on public parks? How does that help anyone.
Helenuk1963  Female  Gloucestershire 8-Aug-2011 20:17 Message #3846895
It's not just youths though... watching the live coverage it's people of all ages.
Arbreorapiny  Male  North East London 8-Aug-2011 20:30 Message #3846930
Absolute SM, all youth centres were shut 20 years ago and youth services are practically non-existant.

Padlocks on the parks is to do with stopping potential crime (both criminal damage and crime again the person that happens to walk through the park).

I left Local Government when I saw the way it was going, restructue after restructure, more money for the bosses ("Executive Directors") while cutting the people who actually did the work.
It became all about ticking boxes, oh look we have an Investors In People plaque on the wall...rather than having a workforce that actually did their job and provided the services that the people need and want.
Its all posh frocks and no knickers, photos of meaningless awards or local projects while the main problems are not dealt with and are largely ignored.

No lets just spend £1.2 million on Mayoral and Councillors while cutting £40,000 on meals on wheels.
I hate to think what the elected members cost now, no such thing as 'Civic duty' anymore they all wanted new desks, a new computer etc every 4 years, I lost count of the amount of times I heard about staff in IT were called to a Councillors home to load a game on for the Councillors child to play.
Or the thousands wasted on travel for a Councillor who lived rediculously far outside the borough.

MP's expenses was always the tip of the iceberg with regard to wasted money by the leaders of governments (both central and local) and Chief Officers...MP expense for a MOAT...what the hell was that about.

I dont know anything about the streetlighting change but it was probably a case of they were doing lighting for the Olympics so although they were only done 2 years before they were re-done to be inkeeping with the rest. But yes still a blatant waste of money.
Aely  Female  Hampshire 8-Aug-2011 20:38 Message #3846946
We had a community meeting here of various groups including Police and Neighbourhood Watch for which I was a co-ordinator. They were discussing the problem of youths gathering in the local bus shelter and outside the small parade of shops. I suggested building a sturdy shelter on some open space the other side of the road where they could gather, sit, chat, out of the weather and without bothering people..

They looked at me as if I had proposed a shrine to Hitler, Genghis Kahn and Vlad the Impaler. "We want to get rid of them, not encourage them" they said.

Very short sighted in my view.

Still doesn't stop me thinking these troublemakers in London (and now Birmingham) aren't moronic vandals, hooligans and professional criminals in the making . They are mostly nasty children who will grow into nasty adults.
Darjeeling  Female  Dumfries and Galloway 8-Aug-2011 20:40 Message #3846949
I'm just off the phone to my daughter - she works in West Croydon and it seems that the rioting has reached there. Fortunately she lives a fair way away, but you can't help but worry :o(

Spanglish  Male  Shropshire 8-Aug-2011 20:54 Message #3846972
"neither side is doing anything but chuck insults, disrespect and accusations at each other"

I think you'll find that one side is throwing, bricks, bottles and just about anything else that comes to hand!

It would seem as if rioting has kicked off in Birmingham now as well, I have just seen on the news that shops in the Bullring and Pallisades shopping centres are being attacked by these poor 'disaffected' youths; many of whom are probably looking to loot a shop so that they have something to sell down the pub later to pay for their drugs.
Dustybin  Male  Suffolk 8-Aug-2011 20:56 Message #3846975
Saw this on another site and it made me laugh.

"Meanwhile Cameron has thirds from the all inclusive salad cart and thinks he might do Agadoo at karaoke hour later"
lynn1963  Female  Derbyshire 8-Aug-2011 20:58 Message #3846977
It is a nightmare here in East London. In towns nearby to the riots, Supermarkets have closed, petrol stations have closed - and police have come into our Slimming World groups tonight in all areas and closed them down to send people home to be safe.

Its scary stuff - and it doesnt look like stopping for a while.
Aely  Female  Hampshire 8-Aug-2011 21:06 Message #3846988
It was the cafe where he didn't leave a tip last time he visited, Stoo.
JollyJules  Female  Surrey 8-Aug-2011 21:12 Message #3846996
I can hear lots of sirens in Sutton - something I have not noticed before. Hoping there is not something kicking off in this town too.
Aely  Female  Hampshire 8-Aug-2011 21:18 Message #3847010
Latest news. David Cameron is returning to London tonight.
Helenuk1963  Female  Gloucestershire 8-Aug-2011 21:45 Message #3847098
I don't think there is any excuse for behaviour like this... We are all suffering in the recession . This isn't about protest , it's mindless vandalism by morons. They are destroying their own communities . Local businesses being looted and burned. Local people losing homes. What punishment will they get IF they are caught ? Slap on the wrist and a community service order ?

It's a bloody disgrace.
JollyJules  Female  Surrey 8-Aug-2011 21:50 Message #3847107
... and who will pick up the financial tab? Ooh yeah, the taxpayer and in the case of looting - the shopper.

It all looks frightening. I've now had contact with several people who live in close proximity to the troubles. Disgusting behaviour - yobs on the rampage imho. Throw the book at them I say.

Just heard the Sky news reporter urging people to step back from the looting and rioting. It is not London only with the issue - Birmingham is also kicking off.

Some group of the population must be coordinating this. End it and end it now I think.
-Soulmajik  Female  Dorset 8-Aug-2011 21:55 Message #3847115
farespese, I am old, I am disabled and I still say the leaders of this country and the local council have disregarded our young. They (the powers that be) lock the park gates so that even I can't walk in them, they take away any of the youth clubs, they spend my money on running their massive fountain at the town hall (and I mean massive) and other such fripperies.

Quite frankly, I'd love to throw a few bags full of manure, rattle some railings, have a bonfire in a garbage bin and generally make myself a bloody nuisance if it would get them to sit up and take notice. I didn't pay my taxes, my parents didn't fight in wars, my son doesn't serve his country in the army just to see a few politicians line their pockets and play brown nosing to foreign companies like Atos.

The only time one sees any of the powers that be around the area is when they want us to put a cross against their name in the ballot box. The police do their best but even they don't get much support from the councillors. Everyone is feeling disaffected and nobody is listening.
-Soulmajik  Female  Dorset 8-Aug-2011 22:06 Message #3847135
I posted this link on the thread about squatters.

If you watch it, know that the young lad in the video is one that is known in our road as a hooligan. Neighbours call the police all the time because he gets into a bit of high jinks (riding a scooter on the pavement, yelling abuse at his Mum and kicking her door in). Yet, he was the first there to help this neighbour when she had a problem. He is still there, helping clean up the mess.

He's the sort of kid that many of you would label as a wrong un, having a drug problem or a drink problem. But you don't really know him. Assumptions and talking from a distance creates labels and is what I was talking about where people just chuck out accusations. In my mind that is as bad as those that are being judged.

If you want to do something, stop sitting behind computer screens, get out there and run some of the youth clubs. I know there are many that do but there are also too many who are all talk and no bloody action.
-Soulmajik  Female  Dorset 8-Aug-2011 22:14 Message #3847158
"so that these morons dont mug you in the dark"

There's a park just one street away from me. It's a tiny strip twixt the road and the A12. It's locked all day, every day, not just at night. The council tell me they don't have the staff to go around unlocking and locking up again. It's got nothing to do with mugging.

The rioters aren't from this area though, that's the thing. I've been out there today and this evening and I don't recognise a single one of them as local.

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