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Why's it taking so long

PPE and the home front

Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
22-Apr-2020 22:34 Message #4777705
BOYDEL Male Surrey 22-Apr-2020 16:26 new Message #4777648
Majority of Care Homes are now privately owned so it's owners' responsibility to source PPE as well as forward plan for when needs may escalate - seemingly they too were slow off the mark.

Care Home residents are obviously sitting ducks with CV as Carers are of course widely circulating in the community and are not being tested for CV unless they are able to drive many miles to one of the new drive in testing stations - and many are not car owners as the sector is poorly paid.

In an ideal world all Carers/NHS staff would be tested daily at their work place - unless already tested positive and isolated for the mandatory 14 days.


An ideal world would make life very easy BOYDEL but as you know we all have to live in the real workd.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
22-Apr-2020 22:34 Message #4777706
BOYDEL Male Surrey 22-Apr-2020 16:26 new Message #4777648
Majority of Care Homes are now privately owned so it's owners' responsibility to source PPE as well as forward plan for when needs may escalate - seemingly they too were slow off the mark.

Care Home residents are obviously sitting ducks with CV as Carers are of course widely circulating in the community and are not being tested for CV unless they are able to drive many miles to one of the new drive in testing stations - and many are not car owners as the sector is poorly paid.

In an ideal world all Carers/NHS staff would be tested daily at their work place - unless already tested positive and isolated for the mandatory 14 days.


An ideal world would make life very easy BOYDEL but as you know we all have to live in the real workd.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
22-Apr-2020 22:37 Message #4777707
Hierophant Male East Anglia 22-Apr-2020 16:34 new Message #4777650
To give you some idea of what the govt are dealing with re PPE procurement I copied this from Guido online.
Rachel Reeves is a Labour MP.

Rachel Reeves has sent a letter to the Government, criticising PPE procurement to date and attaching what she insists is a helpful list of companies offering to help supply the national effort. Closer inspection shows the letter to contain duplicate providers, and include some less than helpful, Del Boy-ish time-wasting chancers. Guido has looked into what potential PPE providers Labour is asking the Government to explore…

A football agent company run by a professional football agent offering to provide “ventilators”. Really?

A historical clothing company offering to make up to 175 gowns a week – or fewer than one gown per hospital per week. Its products currently include a sixteenth century silk bodice. Gowns need to be single use and made to advanced, exacting specifications from specific fabrics. Guido’s not sure this is where the Government should be spending time chasing up…

A lady called Bella Gonshorovitz who makes clothes to measure and has a Go Fund Me page offering to make up to 500 gowns a week. Just under 1.5 per hospital per week. Does she really have the medically approved resources for this specialist task?

The Whent, a Company that exists to reduce dependence on plastic, peculiarly offering to produce tests and also gloves. Medical gloves must be made to exacting specifications and are largely made of plastic. The company currently makes canned mineral water but is now offering to make Covid tests…

An events company in Surrey offering “supplying masks and respirators from China”. The company claims to provide the “ultimate corporate day experience…[with] delicious cuisine from sushi to sandwiches, hot and cold buffets, BBQ, breakfast, snacks and lunch”. Great, just no mention of advanced medical equipment like respirators…

A private legal practice in Birmingham with only two employees and no website offering to provide scrubs and gowns. How?..

A provider of ‘wholesale electronic and telecommunications parts and equipment’ that doesn’t appear to be an active company has offered to provide 250,000 plastic aprons and masks as well as hand sanitiser. They don’t even have a website…

One company only incorporated in February 2020 that has only one director and shareholder. There’s no evidence of it ever having conducted any business…


Although I'm not a fan of Guido they often talk a lot of sense and say what others want to sweep under the carpet.
Male
TimidTim  Male  Derbyshire
22-Apr-2020 23:40 Message #4777712
It seems the UK is selling a lot of PPE to other countries, saying our government is difficult to do business with.
Many have offered, and would it be difficult to make anyway?
If the government wanted to, they could initiate production of such simple items.

But that would require some basic intelligence!
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
23-Apr-2020 07:46 Message #4777714
"If the government wanted to, they could initiate production of such simple items."

Ah look we've ended up here again, you imply they don't want to. Why do you think that?
I would imagine making suitable, medical grade PPE is not as simple as it sounds, there are strict rules in place regarding quality.
Could you knock up some medical grade gloves overnight?
I think it requires more than basic intelligence....
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
23-Apr-2020 09:58 Message #4777721
As flagged in Bupa Care Home survey some 60% of Care Home residents are Council funded - trouble is that on average the Council fees are around £20,000 pa lower (per resident) than the standard fee - net result being that hundreds of Care Homes have been forced to close over recent years.

We should not overlook that all company CEOs have a legal duty to maximise profit - whilst providing social care per se was never part of the original NHS funding model.

Overall though Care Home residents on average tend not to survive for long periods - LSE research says median survival overall is just 19.6 months - whilst in Nursing Care it is just 11.9 months rising to 26.8 months in Residential Care. As always there are the outliers with rare cases where people survive 20 yrs.

With around 410,000 total residents that translates to around 345 daily deaths in a normal year - whilst LSE estimates that in Europe around 57% of all CV linked deaths are among Care Home residents.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
23-Apr-2020 10:21 Message #4777727
So why are there companies making PPE in quantity here in the UK who have offfered it to the government, not heard back and are now selling it abroad because they can't afford to have that much stock and no cash flow?
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
23-Apr-2020 10:47 Message #4777732
A lot of it seems down to companies profiteering with very high prices to the highest bidder. When the shops did the same to us with anti-bac hand wash and toilet rolls we suffered the same on a much smaller and individual scale.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
23-Apr-2020 11:40 Message #4777739
I would imagine much is tied up in contracts that the govt can't just ride roughshod over. Plus there are strict health and safety rules to be considered, so probably like everything govt related it's largely down to red tape....
Male
TimidTim  Male  Derbyshire
23-Apr-2020 22:45 Message #4777776
We are talking simple items Hiero, we are talking surgical gowns, not rocket engines!
At least you have noticed the problem with red tape.
Also the government have stated they only want to buy large shipments.

And when those large shipments are not available, they have not responded with a plan B.
They have left medics without PPE, that did not have to be without PPE!
Female
LadyVera  Female  Cumbria
23-Apr-2020 22:52 Message #4777779
ColonelBlink Male Buckinghamshire 22-Apr-2020 11:30 Message #4777605
I've also spent a lot of time in hospitals recently and in one sense the do appear quieter as there are no drunks fighting in a&e and a the patients needing routine treatments are missing but I think the hospitals themselves have become much more efficient and streamlined in anticipation of being a lot busier than usual which isn't necessarily the case.
The PPE has become more of a press issue than a medical one. There seems to be a constant fear of running low on equipment but in all three hospitals I've attended this hasn't happened. Probably hanging on by the skin of their teeth but hanging on. I know there have been several instances of small companies attempting to cash in on providing PPE when they are not equipped to do so and apparently when checked some of these companies only began trading in the past few weeks so dodgy at best.
I don't know how many genuine small companies are providing equipment but at least one I know of is local and providing face visors from a private house so it does happen.
Busy emergency staff letting themselves relax with a few laughs is very much the norm and good for them and shame on the press, once again, for inventing news.

_______________________

The media has been playing on fears of PPE running for news stories and now they pick on nurses having a few moments relaxation.
Female
Bewildered  Female  Norfolk
30-Apr-2020 12:14 Message #4778527
Sit here reading armchair experts and critics

Who know what they read lol lol loll,
Female
Bewildered  Female  Norfolk
30-Apr-2020 12:16 Message #4778528
Who only know what they read ,,
Female
Bewildered  Female  Norfolk
30-Apr-2020 12:16 Message #4778529
Who only know what they read ,,

Male
TimidTim  Male  Derbyshire
30-Apr-2020 20:53 Message #4778577
Tell us then Bewildered, what do you know?
Why make such a sweeping statement?
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
30-Apr-2020 21:11 Message #4778581
Boris says we're past the peak, but still have to stay in lockdown.

Interestingly S. Korea, now almost clear, never went into lockdown, or restricted travel. They used testing, tracking and contact tracing.

A lot of people are no longer observing lockdown anyway. Fair bit of traffic on the roads from pics on the telly, people have to earn a living, I don't think the money lending programme is much help.
Male
Colonel_Blink  Male  Buckinghamshire
30-Apr-2020 21:56 Message #4778582
It makes sense not to come out of lockdown too soon and go back to square one.

In my area people seem to be behaving sensibly. Shop queues minimal. Open spaces used with distancing. London itself is very quiet with TfL saying use of the tube is down 95% and buses 85%. The M25 is like a country lane.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
30-Apr-2020 22:39 Message #4778584
NotHermit,

because Bewildered in not in an armchair judging from what the media choose to feed us, she is in the think of it and wearing it in her line of work, that's how she knows.
Female
Bewildered  Female  Norfolk
4-Jun-2020 09:17 Message #4782073
One point about staff in uniform outside. Many are expected to go to work in uniform and then change into scrubs.
End of shift scrub down before leaving.
It appears the press know more about PPE in hospitals than the staff who work there. Our area there was no shortage either. We did run low but never run out when certain items were being used at higher rate than expected. Even clerical in the Covid zone had to wear full PPE encluding gowns , When taking a break all PPE had to be binned and replaced after...This was at the beginning when the admission rate was high..
But never ran out, and colleagues at other hospitals have said the same,
I think all have done well considering it was uncharted territory never experienced in modern day NHS,
Some PPE although well mean has not been up to standard.

NOT relevant to this I know, but I think hospitals and staff have been amazing in that within a few days they created new Respiratory AE and Green and Yellow zones...
Our hospital made a new entrance, put doors on bays , and rearranged a dept to segregate Covid possibles.. all in a couple of day.
Then fit tested Covid staff ready to work by beginning of April. I had my fit test on 3/4 before starting work.
I know people have said NHS staff are just doinng their jobs and expect to be put in harms way , but sorry no
this is a new , unknown virus, and hasnt just affected nursing staff but porters, security , X ray and clerical who work in the zones, NO they dont face to face with patients but work in a 0 pressure environment side by side with docs and nurses who do face to face with patients.......

Sorry to have written such a long post. but some of us havent come out the other side , and wont so while this is on going . it has taken a huge toll on me, for a number of reasons ,
NO days at the beach
no BBQs with friends
NO queuing at shops for something to do,

So stay safe
be sensible
be kind. lol ( the hardest thing for so many) xx
Male
Leyson  Male  South East London
4-Jun-2020 19:03 Message #4782117
Bewildered:
What a fascinating & comprehensive insight to your daily working routine. I hope you manage to come out the other side OK.
You to stay safe & hopefully, days on the beach BBQ's with friends are not too far away.

Lots of BIG HUGS to a special angel. xx
Male
Maglorian  Male  North Yorkshire
5-Jun-2020 22:31 Message #4782291
The Tories published the international death rate comparisons on a daily basis, until the UK coronavirus death rate became the highest in Europe, then they immediately scrapped it, because it made them look bad.

The Tories published the number of people tested per day on a daily basis, until the figures made it clear that they had repeatedly failed to achieve their target of testing 100,000 people per day, so they just scrapped the figures.

The report into why Black and Asian are more susceptible to the coronavirus had some uncomfortable home truths about systemic racism in it, so Tory health minister Matt Hancock had them removed before it was published.

The Tories conducted their daily coronavirus briefings alongside a scientist, until one of these scientists stepped out of line and said that quarantine rules should apply to everyone, including Tory ministers and political advisers, now the Tory ministers conduct the briefings with no scientists at their side.

Every time reality fails to fit the absurd narrative that these Tory ghouls are doing a wonderful job, they just hide it. And they're not even being subtle about it.

It's every bit as obvious as the Stalinist tactic of erasing people from all the official pictures, after they'd been disappeared or sent to the gulags.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
5-Jun-2020 22:35 Message #4782294
.Maglorian, AvitoDauphine, Wandering4Fun, Witheflow, withgoodintent, to use just a few of your names, you cannot escape your neo liberal cabal by pretending to have socialist ideals and pretending to care about others and pretending to want to help the poor. You really nasty piece of work.
You mock council house tenants? You laugh at littered communities? You make racist comments? You make snide homophobic remarks? You hate seeing the poor being helped and attack every thread where caring people try to help others. The use of fake images, verbal insults to “non-agreers”, multi profiles including a female one with access to the “ladies” room.
The only contribution you have made to the forum is reviving all the excellent votes which float around whenever one of the abhorrent trolls makes an unwelcome appearance.


Your fake profiles are very active today. I see them appearing on the members online list.
Male
TimidTim  Male  Derbyshire
5-Jun-2020 23:07 Message #4782300
Mr Quiet?
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
5-Jun-2020 23:19 Message #4782301
Bewildered Female Norfolk
4-Jun-2020 09:17 Message #4782073
One point about staff in uniform outside. Many are expected to go to work in uniform and then change into scrubs.
End of shift scrub down before leaving.
It appears the press know more about PPE in hospitals than the staff who work there. Our area there was no shortage either. We did run low but never run out when certain items were being used at higher rate than expected. Even clerical in the Covid zone had to wear full PPE encluding gowns , When taking a break all PPE had to be binned and replaced after...This was at the beginning when the admission rate was high..
But never ran out, and colleagues at other hospitals have said the same,
I think all have done well considering it was uncharted territory never experienced in modern day NHS,
Some PPE although well mean has not been up to standard.

NOT relevant to this I know, but I think hospitals and staff have been amazing in that within a few days they created new Respiratory AE and Green and Yellow zones...
Our hospital made a new entrance, put doors on bays , and rearranged a dept to segregate Covid possibles.. all in a couple of day.
Then fit tested Covid staff ready to work by beginning of April. I had my fit test on 3/4 before starting work.
I know people have said NHS staff are just doinng their jobs and expect to be put in harms way , but sorry no
this is a new , unknown virus, and hasnt just affected nursing staff but porters, security , X ray and clerical who work in the zones, NO they dont face to face with patients but work in a 0 pressure environment side by side with docs and nurses who do face to face with patients.......

Sorry to have written such a long post. but some of us havent come out the other side , and wont so while this is on going . it has taken a huge toll on me, for a number of reasons ,
NO days at the beach
no BBQs with friends
NO queuing at shops for something to do,

So stay safe
be sensible
be kind. lol ( the hardest thing for so many) xx


A good post Bewildered.


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