Conversation Society, News and Sport
Helper icon Helpers: Chris2mates , LLstill , PrincessFruitBat


About us

Midsummer's Eve is a free online dating community - based around friendship, real meetups, real people, and real relationships. We've been online since 1999 and have twice won Radio 2's Web Site of the Day award. So why not join us for free and join in the discussion?

Trump impeachable offences

There have been many

1 2 Next   Last  

Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
12-Jan-2021 15:20 Message #4803170
Although expected to be passed by the House of Representatives, (which requires a simple majority), the current impeachment of Donald Trump won't get through the Senate trial, (which requires a 2/3 majority but is split about 50-50, and probably won't begin until after he leaves office).

The previous impeachment of Donald Trump until 05-Feb-20 was about Trump's abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, in pressuring Ukranian president Zelensky to find dirt on Hunter Biden, (whom I agree was corrupt), and his father Joe Biden. Trump did this in a phone conversation with Zelensky on 25-Jul-19, by blocking $400 million military aid agreed by Congress. On 12-Aug-19 a whistleblower complained about it, but it wasn't until 11-Sep-19 that Trump released the aid following much pressure. Trump repeatedly called it a "perfect phone call", but only a summary of it was released - it was falsely called a "transcript" but was not word-for-word.

In December 2019 the House Intelligence Committee produced a 300 pages report including Trump "solicited the interference of a foreign government, Ukraine, to benefit his [Trump's] reelection ... Trump withheld a White House meeting desperately sought by the Ukrainian President, and critical U.S. military assistance to fight Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine.". In January 2020 the Government Accountability Office concluded that Trump broke federal law 1974 Impoundment Control Act.

Despite numerous pleas, Republican senators violated their oath and refused to allow any witnesses (such as White House officials) to testify live, although in any trial cross-examination can be extremely useful. At the time, opinion polls showed that ~70% of Americans said that witnesses should be called. Incidentally, after his acquittal Trump admitted that had directed his lawyer Rudy Giuliani to go to Ukraine, although before that Trump had lied that he hadn't.

There have been many other issues in which Trump violated laws and abused his powers. The Democrats didn't try to impeach him on them, as the Senate would have rejected them and there could have been adverse consequences.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
12-Jan-2021 15:21 Message #4803171
"The A to Z of Things Trump Could and Should Have Been Impeached For" in https://theintercept.com/2019/12/19/a-z-trump-impeachment/ has a list dated 19-Dec-19 (nearly 13 months ago), and has been updated since then. Here are some extracts (which in the article have links to more details), although some points (e.g. Bigotry) might not be legally impeachable offences. (Incidentally, in common use, "unimpeachable" is not the opposite of this "impeachable".) People will criticise me for copy/paste, but as usual they won't criticise Trump for the content of the post.

AMAZON - "Trump has personally and repeatedly instructed the Postmaster General to double shipping rates for Amazon"

BIGOTRY - "referred to African countries as 'shitholes;' to Mexicans as 'rapists;' to neo-Nazis as 'very fine people.'"

CNN - "Trump personally intervened to try and block a merger between AT&T and Time Warner — in order to try and punish CNN, which is owned by Time Warner, for its unfavorable coverage of him."

DEATHS - "Over the past 12 months, six migrant children aged between 2 and 16 — five from Guatemala and one from El Salvador — have died in federal custody. Over the previous 10 years, not a single migrant child died in custody."

EMOLUMENTS - "From pitching his struggling Doral resort as a venue for the next G-7 summit, to making more than 400 lucrative visits to his own properties and businesses, to having Saudi royals bail out his underperforming hotels, Trump has been violating both the domestic and foreign emolument clauses of the Constitution"

FRAUD - "Trump settled three different fraud lawsuits related to his Trump University for $25 million. Earlier this month, as the New York Attorney General Letitia James formally announced, the president was “forced to pay $2 million for misusing charitable funds for his own political gain,” and his Trump Foundation was “shut down for its misconduct."

GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION - "Trump was "'dead opposed' to the government selling the property, which would have allowed commercial developers to compete directly with the Trump Hotel" only a block away."

HUSH MONEY - "made illegal hush money payments to two women — Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal — who claimed to have had affairs with Trump".

INCITEMENT OF VIOLENCE - "'On at least eight occasions, he has encouraged his supporters — including members of the armed forces — to attack his political opponents.'"

JARED - "Trump demanded that his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be granted a security clearance, despite objections from intelligence officials who warned that Kushner could be compromised by his business ties to foreign governments."

KIDS IN CAGES - "The Trump administration, as a matter of policy, separated more than 5,400 children — including babies and toddlers — from their migrant parents at the Mexico border. Hundreds of those kids were locked up in cages. This was a clear violation of international law"

LIES, LIES, AND LIES - "Trump has told more than 15,000 falsehoods since coming to office. ... But lying isn't an impeachable offense, right? Wrong. The very first article of impeachment against Nixon accused him of 'making or causing to be made false or misleading public statements for the purpose of deceiving the people of the United States.'"

MEDIA ATTACKS - "Trump, as even Fox News host Chris Wallace observed last week, 'is engaged in the most direct, sustained assault on freedom of the press in our history.' The president has asked the FBI to jail reporters who publish leaks, threatened to revoke the broadcast licenses of media organizations that criticize him, and relentlessly attacked and demonized journalists as 'scum,' 'slime,' 'sick people,' 'fake news,' and 'the enemy of the people.' Members of the press have received death threats from people echoing the president’s vile language."

NEGLIGENCE - "Local officials in Puerto Rico have blamed presidential negligence and incompetence for the de
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
12-Jan-2021 15:22 Message #4803172
NEGLIGENCE - "Local officials in Puerto Rico have blamed presidential negligence and incompetence for the deaths of nearly 3,000 people in Puerto Rico, in the wake of Hurricane Maria in 2017. Trump's response? He falsely claimed that 3,000 Americans didn’t die. He also tried to 'illegally withhold' much-needed and congressionally appropriated disaster relief money."

OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE - "Special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election identified 10 instances of possible obstruction of justice by the president. More than 1,000 former federal prosecutors agreed that Trump’s conduct, had he been a private citizen, would have resulted “in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice."

PERJURY - "We know Trump lies all the time — but how about the lies he tells under oath?"

QANON - "The president has retweeted QAnon supporters on multiple occasions; invited them to speak at his rallies; and hosted them at the White House. Why does this matter? The FBI has warned that QAnon will 'very likely' drive extremists 'to carry out criminal or violent acts.'"

RAPE - "Trump has not only been accused of sexual assault and harassment by dozens of women, but in June, the writer E. Jean Carroll also accused him of raping her in the dressing room of a luxury department store."

SYRIA - "in April 2017, Trump launched airstrikes against Syria, without a vote in Congress. Democratic Rep. Ted Lieu, a former attorney in the Judge Advocate General Corps of the U.S. Air Force, called the strikes 'FRICKIN ILLEGAL.'"

TAX EVASION - "In October 2018, a blockbuster 13,000-word investigation by the New York Times found that Trump 'received at least $413 million in today’s dollars from his father’s real estate empire, much of it through tax dodges in the 1990s.'"

ULTRA VIRES - "Remember how Trump declared a fake 'national emergency' in February to circumvent Congress and fund his border wall? Well, Trump himself bluntly admitted that there was no emergency or even urgency: 'I didn’t need to do this. But I’d rather do it much faster.'"

VLADIMIR - "The Mueller report may have ruled out a criminal conspiracy between Trump and Vladimir Putin, but we know that Trump welcomed Russian help during the 2016 campaign and later suggested that he wasn’t bothered by Moscow’s interference in the election. We also know that Trump handed over classified intel to the Russians in the Oval Office."

WITNESS INTIMIDATION - "In January, Cohen announced that he was postponing his public congressional testimony because of 'ongoing threats against his family' from the president and his attorney Rudy Giuliani."

XI - "Listen to the president himself, speaking to reporters outside the White House in October: 'China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine.'"

YEMEN - "In Yemen, the scene of the world’s worst humanitarian crisis, Trump has helped Saudi Arabia to continue to drop bombs despite explicit opposition from both chambers of Congress. ... Trump's decision to veto a bipartisan bill calling for an end to U.S. military involvement in the Saudi air war amounted to 'flagrant defiance of the 1973 War Powers Act that checks a president’s ability to engage in armed conflict without express consent of Congress.'"

ZELENSKY - "The president of the United States didn’t just abuse his power in attempting to pressure the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden; he tried to bribe him."
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
12-Jan-2021 15:23 Message #4803173
Bloody hell Jeff can't you give your monotonous campaign against Trump a rest for five minutes. We all know it's the fault of God.
Male
The Dim Reaper  Male  Devon
12-Jan-2021 17:23 Message #4803186
Jeff why dont you go spout your crap on facebook or twitter where it would be more appreciated , because on here you just come across as a plank .
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
12-Jan-2021 18:19 Message #4803190
I worried, about what he do after Trump go.
Male
Maglorian  Male  North Yorkshire
12-Jan-2021 21:21 Message #4803196
Thank you Jeff. A good honest account of the moral emptiness inflicting society today. I would ignore the trolls and haters retorts. Superb reporting.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
12-Jan-2021 21:34 Message #4803197
Same as Maglorian.

Well coordinated report on how bad Trump had been as a leader.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
12-Jan-2021 21:48 Message #4803201
Rofl.
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
12-Jan-2021 22:31 Message #4803204
It is a good post Jeff.
But I still worried, bout what you do when he gone.
Who you after next?
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
12-Jan-2021 22:45 Message #4803205
Rumour, tittle tattle, has it that the next target will be to produce pages of c&p from the Bible and get God impeached.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
13-Jan-2021 07:40 Message #4803218
Even Jeff might flinch at that one.
Male
Pboro Trevor  Male  Cambridgeshire
13-Jan-2021 10:17 Message #4803250
Where do you start? probably the one that has been the most blatant

Trevor
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
13-Jan-2021 12:22 Message #4803277
I'm not an expert, but I think that some of the offences in my first 3 posts of this thread, and more such as violating the US Constitution and laws in many ways, were valid grounds for impeachment of Donald Trump, but the current proposed impeachment does not have enough evidence that Trump incited the riot on 6 January.

Its wording includes:- "ARTICLE 1: INCITEMENT OF INSURRECTION
The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" and that the President "shall be removed from Office on Impeachment, for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Further, section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution prohibits any person who has "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against" the United States from "hold[ing] and office ... under the United States.' In his conduct while President of the United States — and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, provide, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed — Donald John Trump engaged in high Crimes and Misdemeanors by inciting violence against the Government of the United States, in that:
On January 6, 2021 ... President Trump, addressed a crowd at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C. There, he reiterated false claims that "we won this election, and we won it by a landslide." He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged — and foreseeably resulted in — lawless action at the Capitol, such as: "if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore." Thus incited by President Trump, members of the crowd he had addressed, in an attempt to, among other objectives, interfere with the Joint Session's solemn constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential election, unlawfully breached and vandalized the Capitol, injured and killed law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress, the Vice President, and Congressional personnel, and engaged in other violent, deadly, destructive and seditious acts.
President Trump's conduct on January 6, 2021, followed his prior efforts to subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 Presidential election. Those prior efforts included a phone call on January 2, 2021, during which President Trump urged the secretary of state of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, to "find" enough votes to overturn the Georgia Presidential election results and threatened Secretary Raffensperger if he failed to do so."

Speeches by Donald Trump Jr and Rudy Giuliani directly called for violence. Even a thug say ing something like "we don't want your lovely car to get damaged, do we?" could be intended as a threat. But I do not think that Trump incited incited the 6 January riot. So I think that he should not be impeached for that.


Dim Reaper,
Again you insult me rather than address the issues raised.

HotOrWot and NoSaint,
I don't flinch that God should be impeached - if he existed.
The prominent rioter in the furs and horns headdress was Jake Chansley (also known as Jake Angeli or QAnon Shaman). He held up a sign showing in capitals "Hold the line patriots God wins", and on the back "Q sent me" (meaning QAnon). Later he said "I'm not really all that worried about it because, in all honesty...I didn't break any laws. I walked through open doors".

Kimjongun,
I will continue with my many other interests, some of which I express in MSE. They might include exchanging maths ideas with you, like in thread "Chessboard problems (Not chess problems)".

Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
13-Jan-2021 12:26 Message #4803278
YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN.
Male
Blackjack  Male  South Yorkshire
13-Jan-2021 13:18 Message #4803289
Looking at each point, one by one they are an impressive mountain of accusations, but that allows You and the reader to not see the bigger picture. So we all appreciate the poison, and when it started which was when Trump threw his hat into the ring.

But what you are doing is not being objective, not seeing the wood for the trees.

Les be honest no one loves TRUMP unless they want to be vilified, ridiculed or worse.

So its always safe to join the lynch mob, and sod the evidence that might counteract or contradict the charges. Let us not forget the saying if you throw enough mud some i of it is bound to stick. There is an awful lot of mud, and it sticks in certain people’s minds who accidentally externalise personal issues through projecting their own shortcomings, camouflaging them with accusations. You should give the people / audience a chance to question, and ask them to judge for themselves as opposed to telling them they are wrong. which sadly I too am also apt to overlook at times.

Firstly not one of the charges has been proved to be legally valid. Secondly it’s the same people accusing Trump of whatever they can make up hiding behind a fake legitimacy of being concerned, when in fact they are so pissed off this orange, TV personality is the dam president. He is not one of them, he is not part of the establishment, has very different values and is a threat to all corporate bought political careers. Lets not forget the USA is the best, if not finest democracy in this world …EVER…that money can buy! Worse Trump cannot be bought, bribed, threatened, induced with positions, riches or anything……….one trait shared by Corbyn. Another trait shared with Corbyn, is the non stop venomous vilification, nd that is where all similarities end.

So its mud slinging not proof, OK he lies, but so does Boris all the time, a man who could not do a proper days work if bribed. Boris has lied and misled throughout his career as a parasitic political work-shy leach, but like Trump we just love him and forgive this scientifically and practically challenged fool, who like Trump is not interested in detail as its boring.

So we forget we live in a mainstream media greenhouse and chuck stones.

So where is the evidence that can actually legally challenge Trump, its all been fabricated by a rich elite with only one message that Biden used to same the election….He was not Trump…brilliant! This panicle of democratic voting specnt most of the time instead of attracting crowds of thousands like Trump was holed up in basement as the party was fearful his dementia where he did not even recognise his wife, would have been exposed. He will be replaced in relatively short while, and if the is not dishonesty what is?

We all know Trump is full of bluster, but also many of his ridiculous accusations have sadly been proved to be correct, he was proved not to be a Putin stooge. It was manufactures by our own secret service who provided a dossier which like in the Iraq war hey are pretty good at. The UK has been at the forefront of the continuous coup to get rid of Trump…..prove me wrong.
Male
AndyMacG  Male  the West Midlands
13-Jan-2021 13:39 Message #4803290
DOUBLE YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN.





Andy Mac
Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
13-Jan-2021 14:00 Message #4803294
TRIPLE YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
13-Jan-2021 15:23 Message #4803323
Good post Blackjack. I agree.

If you step out of line, you are a brave man, how dare you win that vote, how dare you become President, how dare you not be like one of us, and how dare you presume you can beat us the next time.
Male
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire
13-Jan-2021 15:30 Message #4803325
Is that George DOUBLE YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN Bush?
Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
13-Jan-2021 15:38 Message #4803327
Very good tumbled. You're rockin' today.
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
13-Jan-2021 17:29 Message #4803350
Tell me again Mr Sock?
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
14-Jan-2021 12:19 Message #4803446
You pretend to yawn because you don't want to consider the issues.

If Trump weren't so corrupt in so many ways, then my posts wouldn't be so long.


Blackjack: "Les be honest no one loves TRUMP unless they want to be vilified, ridiculed or worse."

There are many millions of people who love Trump, and I've seen and read of some who have said that they are prepared to die for him. In MSE Trump supporters are the most vocal at insults and strong language.


Blackjack: "So we all appreciate the poison, and when it started which was when Trump threw his hat into the ring."

Even before his presidency, Trump and his businesses were full of legal poison.

Wikipedia on "Legal affairs of Donald Trump" includes "An analysis by USA Today published in June 2016 found that over the previous three decades, Donald Trump and his businesses have been involved in 3,500 legal cases in U.S. federal courts and state court, an unprecedented number for a U.S. presidential candidate. Of the 3,500 suits, Trump or one of his companies were plaintiffs in 1,900; defendants in 1,450; and bankruptcy, third party, or other in 150. Trump was named in at least 169 suits in federal court. Over 150 other cases were in the Seventeenth Judicial Circuit Court of Florida (covering Broward County, Florida) since 1983. In the 1,300 cases where the record establishes the outcome, Trump settled 175 times, lost 38, won 450, and had another 137 cases end with some other outcome. In the other 500 cases, judges dismissed plaintiffs' claims against Trump.
The topics of the legal cases include contract disputes, defamation claims, and allegations of sexual harassment. Trump's companies have been involved in more than 100 tax disputes, and on "at least three dozen" occasions the New York State Department of Taxation and Finance has obtained tax liens against Trump properties for nonpayment of taxes. On a number of occasions, Trump has threatened legal action but did not ultimately follow through."
That was all before he became president. The USA Today article of 02-Jun-16 includes "The sheer volume of lawsuits is unprecedented for a presidential nominee. No candidate of a major party has had anything approaching the number of Trump’s courtroom entanglements." Trump had more lawsuits than the the 5 top real-estate business executives combined. While campaigning, Trump lied that he never settles lawsuits, whereas in fact he and his businesses settled over 100 lawsuits that USA Today reviewed.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
14-Jan-2021 12:20 Message #4803447
While president, Trump has violated many aspects of the US Constitution and US laws, but is largely protected by his position. On numerous occasions he has obstructed justice, and fired officials who could check on him and his associates, such as 5 Inspectors General in April & May 2020, and lied that they weren't doing their jobs properly.

In his oath of office, Trump swore "to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States". But that oath was a lie, as he has violated the consitution in many ways. His trying to get Vice President Mike Pence not to do his constitutional duty led to 6 January rioters erecting a noose and shouting "Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence".

https://globaljusticecenter.net/publications/advocacy-resources/law-and-trump lists many ways in which Trump has violated international law. (To see them, you need to scroll down its interior window. I won't repeat them here.)

President Trump has broken the law in these ways:- (from https://www.quora.com/Has-Donald-Trump-ever-broken-the-law)

Emoluments
Theft from his charity
Campaign finance laws
Sexual assault and rape
Tax evasion
Bank and Insurance fraud
Witness intimidation (obstruction of justice)
The Hatch Act
The foreign corrupt practices act
Theft by unlawful deception
Fraud
Misprision of multiple felonies.
etc.

2 U.S. Code § 192: "Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers."
18 U.S. Code § 225 - Continuing financial crimes enterprise
18 U.S. Code § 246 - Deprivation of relief benefits
18 U.S. Code § 595: "Interference by administrative employees of Federal, State, or Territorial Governments."
18 U.S. Code § 598 - Coercion by means of relief appropriations
18 U.S. Code § 604 - Solicitation from persons on relief
18 U.S. Code § 607: "Place of solicitation."
18 U.S. Code § 610: "Coercion of political activity."
18 U.S. Code § 641 - Public money, property or records
18 U.S. Code § 872: "Extortion by officers or employees of the United States."
18 U.S. Code § 951 - Agents of foreign governments
18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments
18 U.S. Code § 954 - False statements influencing foreign government
18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally
18 U.S. Code § 1038 - False information and hoaxes
18 U.S. Code § 1503 - Influencing or injuring officer or juror generally
18 U.S. Code § 1505 - Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees
18 U.S. Code § 1512 - Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant
18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy
18 U.S. Code § 1621 - Perjury generally
18 U.S. Code § 1622 - Subornation of perjury
18 U.S. Code Chapter 91 - PUBLIC LANDS
18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
18 U.S. Code § 2382 - Misprision of treason
18 U.S. Code § 2511 - Interception and disclosure of wire, oral, or electronic communications prohibited
18 U.S. Code § 2701 - Unlawful access to stored communications
52 U.S. Code § 30121: "Contributions and donations by foreign nationals."
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
14-Jan-2021 14:41 Message #4803461
Emoluments
Theft from his charity
Campaign finance laws
Sexual assault and rape
Tax evasion
Bank and Insurance fraud
Witness intimidation (obstruction of justice)
The Hatch Act
The foreign corrupt practices act
Theft by unlawful deception
Fraud
Misprision of multiple felonies.
etc.

2 U.S. Code § 192: "Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers."
18 U.S. Code § 225 - Continuing financial crimes enterprise
18 U.S. Code § 246 - Deprivation of relief benefits
18 U.S. Code § 595: "Interference by administrative employees of Federal, State, or Territorial Governments."
18 U.S. Code § 598 - Coercion by means of relief appropriations
18 U.S. Code § 604 - Solicitation from persons on relief
18 U.S. Code § 607: "Place of solicitation."
18 U.S. Code § 610: "Coercion of political activity."
18 U.S. Code § 641 - Public money, property or records
18 U.S. Code § 872: "Extortion by officers or employees of the United States."
18 U.S. Code § 951 - Agents of foreign governments
18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments
18 U.S. Code § 954 - False statements influencing foreign government
18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally
18 U.S. Code § 1038 - False information and hoaxes
18 U.S. Code § 1503 - Influencing or injuring officer or juror generally
18 U.S. Code § 1505 - Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees
18 U.S. Code § 1512 - Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant
18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy
18 U.S. Code § 1621 - Perjury generally
18 U.S. Code § 1622 - Subornation of perjury
18 U.S. Code Chapter 91 - PUBLIC LANDS
18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
18 U.S. Code § 2382 - Misprision of treason
18 U.S. Code § 2511 - Interception and disclosure of wire, oral, or electronic communications prohibited
18 U.S. Code § 2701 - Unlawful access to stored communications
52 U.S. Code § 30121: "Contributions and donations by foreign nationals."


I disagree. Gossip and tittle tattle.

1 2 Next   Last  


 Back to top

 Help with conversations