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Trump's last stand

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Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire
6-Jan-2021 16:06 Message #4802601
Mike Pence is going to get an earful from the Donald when he fails to do the impossible and declare Trump the winner today when he is MC at the formal totting up of Electoral College votes. Poor baby Donnie just can't understand the rules.

Also today it looks like the senatorial run-off in Georgia will return 2 Democrats to replace the current GOP senators. (by the way, did you know GOP stands for Good Old Party?). This means the Republicans will lose control of the Senate. Whose fault? Donald J Trump, who has managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Fancy telling your supporters that the election is a farce and illegal and then expect them to go out and vote.

Poor Donnie isn't having much luck. Even his plans to go and play golf in Scotland on Inauguration Day have come to nought. Nichola Sturgeon has told him to forget it. NOBODY is allowed in - and that includes the demented Donald.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
6-Jan-2021 17:57 Message #4802606
Pence doesn't have legal power to overturn the election results. To help my friend Donald, I suggest that Trump and Pence should temporarily swap positions. The current "president of law and order" doesn't care about law and order when reliable evidence, the law as determined by numerous judges (including Republican appointed ones), and the US Constitution, are against him. Pence could then also grant Trump a pardon for many federal offences. Then Trump might say: Take care of the Pence, and the pounding will take care of itself.

On 2 January Trump tweeted that Georgia presidential and Senate elections are "illegal and invalid". But that is false. What is illegal and criminal (under 52USC20511 & 52USC10307a & Georgia 21-2-604a1) is his 2 January phone call to Georgia's Republican secretary of state Brad Raffensperger & others. A recording of that call was made public because Trump tweeted lies about it: "I spoke to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger yesterday about Fulton county and voter fraud in Georgia. He was unwilling, or unable, to answer questions such as the 'ballots under table' scam, ballot destruction, out of state 'voters', dead voters, and more. He has no clue!".
For example, in the call Trump said "All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes", and some conspiracy theories "in my opinion, based on what I've heard". They were refuted, such as "The other thing, dead people. So dead people voted, and I think the number is close to 5,000 people. And they went to obituaries. They went to all sorts of methods to come up with an accurate number, and a minimum is close to about 5,000 voters." Raffensperger responded: "The actual number was two. Two. Two people that were dead that voted."

I'm amazed that Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue did so well in the Georgia runoff. Their very suspicious financial transactions following government briefings indicate illegal insider trading, but that is very difficult to prove. (See thread "Donald Trump To remane presidente" http://www.midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=194795&page=2 on 08-Dec-20 at 13:45 2 posts.)
Kelly Loeffler is the wife of Jeffrey Sprecher, (founder & CEO of Intercontinental Exchange and Chairman of the New York Stock Exchange), and they own approx. $800 million. She got her seat because of their huge donations to the Republican party.
Loeffler and Perdue supported Trump's idea of $2,000 Covid stimulus cheques with conditions, and she and Perdue only dropped the conditions after they knew that Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell was blocking the whole thing anyway, (see "potus and flotus have tested positive for covid," http://www.midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=194512&page=5 on 01-Jan-21 at 18:30).

Doubtless many possible voters for Democrats were put off by the lies that it would lead to communism.
On 7 December in a debate she called her opponent "Radical Liberal Raphael Warnock" 10 times https://twitter.com/martin_samoylov/status/1335824066666770433
Even if that is true, he wouldn't make the whole of the Senate radical or similar.

GOP is Grand Old Party, originally Gallant Old Party, which I think is a silly name. Isn't it odd that since 2000 Republicans use colour red, which is often associated with communism! The GOP has become so much associated with Donald Trump, that they could name their elephant symbol Donald Trunk!


Now for some speculation that could be called tittle tattle:-
In view of the calls to violence by Republicans, I wouldn't be surprised if a Democrat senator and/or Joe Biden and/or Kamala Harris get assassinated. That could lead to one or more prominent Republicans being assassinated. (There have been assassinations of 4 US presidents and failed attempts on 2 others.)
On a lighter note, perhaps Melania Trump will leave Donald, unless he pays her enough to stay.
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire
6-Jan-2021 18:04 Message #4802607
Good for Mike Pence! A couple of minutes before crunch time, he has tweeted telling Trump he will uphold the constitution, do his job and NOT follow Trumps orders.
Male
FirmButFair-TrollPatrol  Male  North Yorkshire
6-Jan-2021 18:31 Message #4802609
As so many others have been saying there is far too much tittle tattle coming over here from the states. Does anyone believe Pence was ORDERED not to uphold the constitution - of course not because it is just tittle tattle and a bit of a wind up.
Whatever anyone thinks of Trump, which is about 50/50 for and against in the States, he has every right to insist on the counts as he has done and to have anything which might be fraudulent to be looked into. Does anyone have a problem wit that? Why on earth would they as that is why the safeguards are in place.

I've never liked Trump but he certainly isn't the worst president the US has voted in and I'm very uncertain about Biden being an improvement.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
6-Jan-2021 18:48 Message #4802612
Lets hope Pence sticks with the constitution and not Trumps ego, I really think America's on the brink of serious civil disobedience if not civil war. Trump has been winding up his supporters for a show of strength in Washington today and from what I saw on the news many looked stoked up if not tooled up, these are his supporters not all Republican in general supporters.

Looks lie he shot himself in the foot in Grorgia and the Republicans have lost one seat already and look likely to lose the second too.
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire
6-Jan-2021 19:33 Message #4802616
Republicans raised an objection to the Arizona count and the two houses are in seperate chambers of the Capitol debating it.

In the meantime Trump supporters have breached the barriers and are beseiging the capitol, which is locked down. It seems some have got inside and many are up on external balconies. The police have finally arrived. Some tear gas has been deployed. Certification has been paused. Protesters are now in Statuary Hall inside the building.

Trump earlier encouraged his supporters to make their feelings felt. He is too busy Twitter slagging off Pence at the moment to ask them for moderation apparently.
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire
6-Jan-2021 20:48 Message #4802619
Trump should be arrested for inciting a riot and insurrection. Putin must be laughing.
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
6-Jan-2021 20:53 Message #4802622
What you expect, when he left my house, 2 towels went missing!
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
6-Jan-2021 21:03 Message #4802625
It's funny watching Sky news tut tutting.
I don't remember them voicing the same concerns during the apparently "peaceful" BLM riots.
Antifa seem to be into everything - good luck Biden....
Female
Andromeda  Female  Berkshire
6-Jan-2021 21:55 Message #4802627
Hierophant. I've thought the same thing many times. Sometimes it seems that Trump is the only person in the world who does anything wrong and if it's not him doing wrong then his fanatical enemies will make something up. You make good points.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
6-Jan-2021 21:58 Message #4802628
Prominent Antifa members were photographed at the BLM riots last summer and guess what, they're part of the group storming Capitol Hill..... lol
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire
6-Jan-2021 22:28 Message #4802632
Andromeda and Heirophant, you are both of course entitled to air you opinions, which in my opinion are completely and utterly stupid and without merit.
Male
brisinger-the-beekeeper  Male  Lancashire
7-Jan-2021 01:35 Message #4802639
People are currently being killed from the riots Trump has stirred up. No excuses.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
7-Jan-2021 07:24 Message #4802644
There can be no excuses for anyone rioting for any reason but it is often condoned for ideological reasons. As president Trump is very high profile so everything is televised. Much as I don't like Trump and deplore many of his actions I do agree with those who are saying he is constantly singled out by the media and often blamed unfairly.
When we had BLM violence a lot of people were too frightened to speak up but there are many instances of this around the world including the uk.

Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire
7-Jan-2021 08:50 Message #4802651
In my opinion trump has always courted the media and uses it to stir up trouble deliberately, much as some posters on here do. To say the media have been unfair to him is I think wrong, I suspect he has loved the attention and will continue to do so.

I am just dumbfounded and amazed that people find anything good to say about him whether in public office or as a businessman, what he is like out of those roles I don't know, but perhaps he was the person history needed right now to show the split in society - and whatever some might say, he is most definitely not on the side of the poor and oppressed.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
7-Jan-2021 09:25 Message #4802653
...."and whatever some might say, he is most definitely not on the side of the poor and oppressed."

Seriously terry, is anybody?
Who will suffer the most from the world's response to covid, it won't be the likes of Trump, Biden, Johnson, Starmer or Sturgeon...
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
7-Jan-2021 09:28 Message #4802654
"Andromeda and Heirophant, you are both of course entitled to air you opinions, which in my opinion are completely and utterly stupid and without merit."

Right back at ya.....
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
7-Jan-2021 09:30 Message #4802655
Almost all the policies aimed at specifically helping the poor or oppressed have come from opposition parties particularly the smaller parties. This is because voicing ideas and proposing policies is very easy. When said party is elected to office they then realise the reality is much more difficult than the easily voices ideals of a party not having to deliver.

I don't think Trump has been worse in this respect than other presidents or world leaders.
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
7-Jan-2021 09:42 Message #4802658
"It's funny watching Sky news tut tutting.
I don't remember them voicing the same concerns during the apparently "peaceful" BLM riots.
Antifa seem to be into everything - good luck Biden...."


Yes standing up for what you believe in, and fighting for a cause.... it's only acceptable if it suits a certain agenda.

I'd rather have the Proud Boys protest in my town than BLM or Antifa.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
7-Jan-2021 10:21 Message #4802659
Agree totally with Aely's and Terry's last posts.

I am genuinely baffled how anyone cannot see through the narcissist behaviour of Trump. It's in his eyes, his demeaner, behaviour, body language, facial expressions. To even consider someone in such a powerful role in a democracy is in a way, worse than those who fight into power in a dictatorship, which effectively, is what Trump is trying to enforce.

It's like a Beano character has been given serious legitimacy.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
7-Jan-2021 10:22 Message #4802660
I think Trump should be removed from office right away, Mike Pence can call a meeting of the cabinet and invoke article 25 which states that a sitting president can be removed from office if unfit for the job. I think Trumps actions of the last 24 hours shows that he's unfit.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
7-Jan-2021 10:25 Message #4802661
I totally agree he is not a good loser and needs to go.
However, the last 4 years have not been anything like as bad as many have made them out to be...
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
7-Jan-2021 10:34 Message #4802665
Hierophant Sex icon 7-Jan-2021 10:25
I totally agree he is not a good loser and needs to go.
However, the last 4 years have not been anything like as bad as many have made them out to be...


That is the case in a nutshell. Nobody can deny that Trumps behaviour following the vote has been atrocious but that does not reflect his entire presidency. He has been unfairly and maliciously pursued for years and I'm sure he believes the constant witch hunt by the media has robbed him of the result he wanted.
He is probably right as the vote was close and had it not been for the years of the media bias he may well have been serving another term as president

I don't like him. I don't approve of him. I am not defending him. The facts are the facts.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
7-Jan-2021 10:42 Message #4802667
As mentioned before, a lot of what Trump claims to have achieved, he hasn't actually achieved. He is great at creating soundbites people want to believe. Boris Johnson does the same but even he isn't as dangerous as Trump who is on another level.

Corbyn too, suffered from media bias, but he didn't defend himself at all, whereas Trump just complained anything against hm was fake news, and the same people believing the vote was stolen are one and the same. Thank goodness the new young voters, interested in their future and not the gunslingers have contributed to swaying the vote.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
7-Jan-2021 10:46 Message #4802668
You are funny JustLyn. Bias against Corbyn is unfair because you like him. Bias against Trump is fair because you don't like him.
I share your hopes that Biden will be better than Trump but only time will tell.

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