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Pony and

Trap

Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
19-Nov-2020 20:45 Message #4798389
If petrol and diesel cars were removed from our roads.
What would actually happen?
For instance, if motoring becomes too expensive, what would people do?
Not much good for motorways, but a pony and trap would be useful to a lot of people.
Get you to the shops, to the pub etc.
A second class ride, is always better than a first class walk.

A serious draw back would be, blocked roads, they not very quick.
So what would government do?
They are totally green, no CO2 from fossil fuels, or smelting rare metals.
But they would have to do something.
But for me the future is all pony.

What you think?
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
19-Nov-2020 21:51 Message #4798393
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/ includes:-

"By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were “drowning in horse manure”. In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods.
In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day.
To add to this, there were yet more horse-drawn carts and drays delivering goods around what was then the largest city in the world.
...
The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on London’s streets also attracted huge numbers of ?ies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases.
...
Each horse also produced around 2 pints of urine per day and to make things worse, the average life expectancy for a working horse was only around 3 years. Horse carcasses therefore also had to be removed from the streets. The bodies were often left to putrefy so the corpses could be more easily sawn into pieces for removal.
...
This problem came to a head when in 1894, The Times newspaper predicted… "In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure."
This became known as the 'Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894'.
The terrible situation was debated in 1898 at the world’s first international urban planning conference in New York, but no solution could be found."


It was solved by afFordable cars.

(Incidentally, there was no such report in The Times, and the 1898 debate is questionable. So is that horseshit or bullshit?)
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
19-Nov-2020 22:00 Message #4798395
Pony and trap would have my approval.
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
19-Nov-2020 23:05 Message #4798398
There is also the not so minor matter of the massive acreage needed to feed a horse - around 2 acres per horse needed - a sq mile per 640 horses
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
19-Nov-2020 23:51 Message #4798401
Lessons from history Jeff, they clever people in 19th century.
They piped gas lights directly into the sewers.
Not everyone could have a pony, I have big garden, but would need to get rid of rockets.
Maybe we end up with sensible government by 2030.
With Covid and other policies, we are seeing the weakness of democracy.
Female
BlinkinLights  Female  South Yorkshire
20-Nov-2020 00:28 Message #4798408
A very interesting history lesson, Jeff.

They say everything turns a full circle so maybe we shall have pony and crap again !
Female
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
20-Nov-2020 09:35 Message #4798425
We still have a couple of traps in the barn, if you are interested..... lol
V x
Male
persona_non_grata  Male  North London
20-Nov-2020 09:59 Message #4798430
I'm a bit nervous around horses. An accidental nudge by its head can hurt. The teeth always look about to bite me and I dated a girl who had been kicked in the face with most bones broken.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
20-Nov-2020 10:55 Message #4798439
A celtic war chariot with two small ponies for when I want to get somewhere quickly.
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire
20-Nov-2020 15:30 Message #4798463
Pony and trap? I would need a considerably larger garden, not to mention garden shed.
The manure would come in handy down the allotment though.
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
20-Nov-2020 18:06 Message #4798477
You can buy share in pony, then not need big garden.
Also, hire out to mow lawns, also scrounge carrots and sugar lumps, from people.
Plus use it to catfish people.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
20-Nov-2020 21:16 Message #4798501
What you think?
....................................................

Pony and trap would be good. Or a horse. Horses are good and quick! Bicycle. Passenger drone, if you don't mind heights. I think a horse, cross-country, way quicker.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
21-Nov-2020 10:21 Message #4798538
The problems with horses are similar to those with cars. When relatively few people use horses it's ok but if all motorists changed to horses we would need enormous facilities for hay, servicing, stables and collecting up the poo would be a full time job.
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
21-Nov-2020 14:22 Message #4798554
The biggest problem would be congested roads, they would slow cars down.
Hence, even electric vehicles would be useless.
If you make motor vehicles too expensive, you could see more horse transport on the roads.
Hence, banning cheaper vehicles, and only allowing electric?

Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
22-Nov-2020 20:20 Message #4798677
We see quite a few pony and traps driven by the local travellers. The have races too.
Male
AndyMacG  Male  the West Midlands
22-Nov-2020 20:35 Message #4798679
Well, you know what they say ... you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink!

I heard the travel time across london had increased since the introduction of the motor vehicle?

Also, isn't "Pony n Trap" rhyming slang for "crap" ;-) lol





Andy Mac
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
23-Nov-2020 00:10 Message #4798714
https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2019/19767 includes:-
"Long term general traffic speeds in London are measured for central, inner and outer London using GPS-based data for key roads. Weekday (07:00 to 19:00) speeds from 2008 to 2018 have changed from:
8.7 mph to 7.1 mph in central London
12.5 mph to 11.6 mph in inner London
20.3 mph to 19.3 mph in outer London"

I suspect that if cars were replaced by a similar number of ponies and traps, then the ponies and traps being much less maneuverable would cause far more traffic accidents and jams, and hence much lower speeds.

https://www.speedofanimals.com/animals/horse includes (my emphases):-
"All horses move naturally with four basic gaits: the four-beat walk, which averages 6.4 kilometres per hour (4.0 mph); the two-beat trot or jog, which averages 13 to 19 kilometres per hour (8.1 to 12 mph) (faster for harness racing horses); and the leaping gaits known as the canter or lope (a three-beat gait that is 19 to 24 kilometres per hour (12 to 15 mph), and the gallop. The gallop averages 40 to 48 kilometres per hour (25 to 30 mph). The world record for a horse galloping over a short, sprint distance is 88 kilometres per hour (55 mph)."

In 2005 a Brandenburg police speed trap photographed a horse & rider galloping at 27 mph.

Ponies, (which have maximum speed 64kph = 40mph), travel slower than horses, and pulling a trap makes them slower still. The figures I've seen mention between about 2mph and 15mph, the higher speeds for shorter periods.


Getting away from town centres, for high speeds and long distances, cars are much better than ponies or horses.
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire
26-Nov-2020 07:40 Message #4798985
I have a pony and trap past my house almost every day. The younger local kids love it.
Female
RAACH84  Female  Buckinghamshire
26-Nov-2020 10:45 Message #4799000
Good to see you posting tsunami as not seen you for a while. We have a small local group who race pony and traps.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
27-Nov-2020 07:49 Message #4799103
The traps roll over very easily when raced.


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