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Ground source

heat pumps

Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
18-Nov-2020 18:52 Message #4798267
Looks like we're going to be encouraged to have these installed when our gas boilers need replacing, the cost is horrendous though at present. I think its a good idea but the price will have to come down a lot for most people to be able to afford it. Is it suitable for all property types? How much space does it take up as opposed to a gas boiler?
Male
Bogeyman  Male  Derbyshire
18-Nov-2020 19:49 Message #4798273
Probably not a lot, because the pipework is buried in the garden.
I would imagine several years off being an affordable option.
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset
18-Nov-2020 20:57 Message #4798281
1. A geothermal system based on recycling warm water pumped up from the depths of abandoned Welsh mines?

2. The drilling of horizontal or vertical holes down into the earth; to subsequently insert tubes to create a gloriously simple, self circulating, heat extraction device?

3. Are you talking Journey to the centre of the earth style geothermal energy extraction where the drills are sent a mile down into the earth to, ultimately, extract seriously hot water or steam to rotate an electrical turbine?

4. Or are you planning some other operation or process?
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
18-Nov-2020 21:18 Message #4798282
We had one at the care facility where I worked , it was utter crap.
We had to have a gas boiler to top up the heat and that was working it's guts out 24 hours per day...
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
18-Nov-2020 21:25 Message #4798283
The plan at the moment is only for new build housing to not have gas boilers - nil mentioned about the over 99% of existing homes who can still buy a replacement gas boiler where needed
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
19-Nov-2020 08:40 Message #4798298
I'm sure I saw something recently of a serious collapse of ground in a town which had drilled deep down through the earth for heating power.
Male
Pboro Trevor  Male  Cambridgeshire
19-Nov-2020 09:21 Message #4798306
Looked into this a couple of years ago when I was replacing my old boiler. Heat pumps are a very expensive option. According to projections it would take 30 years to recover the costs

Trevor
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
19-Nov-2020 10:09 Message #4798309
I have written of the ground source heat pump alternative a couple of times, the AIR source heat pump.

Basically, they work like a fridge in reverse so instead of the warm air being discharged, the warm air is retained to send through the central heating system.

Ground source heat pumps are more efficient but take up much more space and you need access for diggers etc.

Basically, they are NOT like replacing a gas boiler, even though they do. As Hieophant stated, they would appear crap like for like because the heating system doesn't have a boost or high temperature option. They are mainly good for people like me who have for years, kept a constant lower room temperature, contrary to Energy ??? guidance of switching off and on, as I kept my own graphs for over 10 years comparing both methods.

Your house has to have an up to date EPC (energy rating) to apply so I have paid £50 for one last month. Even though I have cavity wall insulation, roof insulation etc my house only scored top D (68). Had it been 69 I would have been C.

With older designs of heat pumps you need larger radiators so the heat output is more consistent and can cope with a larger radiating of a lower temperature. You don't get hot radiators. However, I have found some newer models have a higher output and do work with standard radiators.

There are hybrid models that be assisted by gas for hot water as what really disappointed me, was finding out a heat pump system needs going back to hot water storage tanks and I had all mine ripped out 15 years ago.

I have now contacted around 10 companies due to lack of response or interest where the three most local ones said I am out of their area!
The only one showing interest is £3000 more than the expected quote of it all being covered by £10,000.
Two have sent information, but not responded to arrange a quote.
The only other one that actually have me a quote of £8000 never even bothered to discussed the hot water problem, in fact neither did.

Unlike a ground source heat pump, an ait source heat pump looks a bit like those huge air conditioning units you see on the side of restaurants so I do have room for one of those on the ground at the back of the house. It would be good as I am always whacking my head on the boiler in my utility room when I stand up from reaching into my tumble drier, also a heat pump model which doesn't get hot, takes twice a long, but costs 20p a load instead of 50p when my son worked it out.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
19-Nov-2020 10:20 Message #4798313
I'm not planing anything the government is.
Male
The_38th_Parallel  Male  Essex
19-Nov-2020 11:14 Message #4798325
From what I heard I thought the aim was to install "air-source heat pumps " which are an interesting concept working in the reverse way a fridge does (which that takes warm air from the inside and makes it cold an ASHP extracts warm air from the outside (even down to as low as -4°c) and uses it to heat the house by providing hot water for showers etc and radiators &/or under floor heating.
But I read that they're really looking at putting them in new builds because they only produce the equivalent warmth (of say a gas boiler) required if the house is super insulated.
eg double glazed windows throughout, 100mm of floor insulation, insulated walls, and 200mm of loft insulation.
I can't see that retro fitting one will appeal to many people given the actual amount of work and expense that might be needed to insulate the property and when you take the siting of the ASHP unit too which is akin to a huge air con unit upended which is going to be eyesore stuck in a garden or outside space, if you're lucky enough to have one.
Then there's the noise to consider. Apparently they're quiet (c.52 db's) but can you imagine if every house had one of those running 24/7/365 (which they will be doing).

But the ban on the installation of gas boilers in new builds is already going to happen and is being brought forward from 2025 to 2023 so developers are going to have to consider more low carbon alternatives like the ASHP.

I've considered swapping my old gas-boiler when it needs replacing with an equivalent electric one because they don't need a flue, condensate pipe or gas pipe. But the cost of electricity, which on average is about 4 times the equivalent price/Kwh cost of gas, is just prohibitive.
Male
Brundall  Male  Lincolnshire
19-Nov-2020 16:12 Message #4798350
They did a test bore in Cleethorpes years ago with the idea of growing tomatoes but it was not viable End of Story.!
Recently there was a planning for houses heated by geothermal heat buI think that wa just a ploy to get planning permission have heard nothing since.
The site of the proposed houses where about a mile has the crow flies.
When the tide come up in Lincolnshire it goes roughly 3 miles in according to a Geologist I spoke to when they built storage caverns for LPG gas from the refineries 600 plus feet below the ground in solid chalk.
Male
Brundall  Male  Lincolnshire
19-Nov-2020 16:12 Message #4798351
They did a test bore in Cleethorpes years ago with the idea of growing tomatoes but it was not viable End of Story.!
Recently there was a planning for houses heated by geothermal heat buI think that wa just a ploy to get planning permission have heard nothing since.
The site of the proposed houses where about a mile has the crow flies.
When the tide come up in Lincolnshire it goes roughly 3 miles in according to a Geologist I spoke to when they built storage caverns for LPG gas from the refineries 600 plus feet below the ground in solid chalk.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
19-Nov-2020 18:59 Message #4798378
We've got excellent insulation, and space to put one, but noise was a problem I'd not considered.

I think if bans on new gas appliances are going to come in then the government need to act to stop single tariff users being unjustly penalised by energy companies as they are at the moment, many don't take single tariff customers.
Male
The_38th_Parallel  Male  Essex
21-Nov-2020 11:35 Message #4798542
the government need to act to stop single tariff users being unjustly penalised by energy companies as they are at the moment,

Is that really the case though?!
I've always been on dual fuel tariffs as they usually include some form of credit or cashback discount.
But I've done a cursory comparison of switching to an electricity only tariff and, when compared to the dual fuel tariff I'm on, there were 36 tariffs offered with savings to be made on 26 of them, and the largest of over £84 pa was from a "Big 6" supplier but there were plenty more from independent and new'ish and established "green" suppliers (e.g. OVO, Octopus and Green Network Energy, and the best was from Pure Planet which is based in Bath).

Male
Neros1954  Male  Devon
21-Nov-2020 12:34 Message #4798544
The calculations of energy bills can be very complex. What seems like a good deal can prove more costly.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
22-Nov-2020 10:37 Message #4798617
As with so many other things where you live effects who supplies to your area, we had OVO, it was not only the cheapest but one of the few who covered our area. Maybe more companies are doing single tariffs than they were three years ago?

We still have to many power cuts for me to want to give up having gas, I can boil water and cook dinner on my gas hob and we have a gas fire in the living room as a back up in case of power cuts.


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