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Coronavirus vaccine

at last some positive news

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Male
The_38th_Parallel  Male  Essex
9-Nov-2020 13:10 Message #4797402
So some results are in and it looks like in tests the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine has been found to prevent 90% of people from getting Covid-19 seven days after the 2nd dose is given and they're now applying for emergency approval to be able to use it by the end of the month.

Logistically I can see it being a nightmare as you have to have the 2 doses 3 weeks apart and the vaccine has to be stored at an ultra low temperature (-80°c), but lets hope this is the first of many positive results.
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset
9-Nov-2020 13:20 Message #4797405
Good news for most of us although Pope Hierophant will, no doubt, rain on the parade.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
9-Nov-2020 13:26 Message #4797406
Given it seems this is the only way out of the complete mess we've got ourselves into, it is indeed great news.
Any vaccine throws up lots of questions though about cost, whether it's mandatory or not, will you have to show proof that you've had it etc etc.
Stock markets have bounced on the news which should be good for my pension though, so that can't be bad...
Female
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
9-Nov-2020 13:33 Message #4797407
Stored under liquid nitrogen, I suppose, which probably means that they will have to have dedicated centres to get the vaccine.
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset
9-Nov-2020 14:13 Message #4797415
I mentioned these things a while back while debunking Trumps promises of having the vaccine distributed "to one and all - momentarily" which was Trump talk for "No. Despite my expert scientists telling me we won't have a vaccine for everyone until way, way into the spring or summer, I'll lie and tell you we will if it wins me the election!".

I did some research on the freezers back then and, while it is true that many clinics don't have such devices, many pharmacies do ... though I expect Boris is going to have to get his chequebook out to remedy that situation.

I do know that many different occupations are going to be trained in how to administer the vaccine so you can be sure those things are already being (or will have already been), sorted out.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
9-Nov-2020 15:30 Message #4797421
Over two months ago, on 04-Sep-20, The Lancet medical journal published an article https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30402-1/fulltext including:-
"On Aug 11, 2020, Russia became the first country in the world to approve a vaccine against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). The vaccine, which is based on two adenovirus vectors, was developed by the Gamaleya National Center of Epidemiology and Microbiology (Moscow, Russia). Its approval was announced by President Vladimir Putin. "I know [the vaccine] works quite effectively, helps to develop strong immunity, and has gone through all the necessary tests", declared Putin at a cabinet meeting. Nonetheless, there are widespread concerns that the approval is premature. At the time of approval, the vaccine had not even started phase 3 trials, nor had any results on the earlier stage trials been published.
Since then, the phase 1/2 results have been published in The Lancet. The vaccine induced a strong immune response in all 76 participants. Presumably these results were available to the Russian Ministry of Health. For regulators such as the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the European Medicines Agency, however, data on immune response alone would not generally be an adequate basis for approving a vaccine. ...
The Russian vaccine is named Sputnik V, after the Soviet-era space programme. One person to have received it is the president's daughter. ... Mass production is expected to begin in September, 2020. Russia, which has seen almost 1 million cases of COVID-19, said that it would be able to provide 500 million doses of Sputnik V per year."

A related article in The Lancet https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31866-3/fulltext included "Further investigation is needed of the effectiveness of this vaccine for prevention of COVID-19."

I don't know whether the American or Russian vaccine is better.

To repeat from "potus and flotus have tested positive for covid," http://www.midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=194512&page=2 on 28-Oct-20 at 23:12:-
"x. On 22-Oct-20 Trump said "We have a vaccine, it's ready". Was it ready on that day? Even since then, has it been tested enough? If so, then why hasn't the scientific community and his administration's departments already announced it, loudly and clearly? Would you use for yourself a vaccine that Trump approves but the relevant scientists haven't approved?" As usual, Trump supporters wouldn't answer my questions. (The "x" indicates my 24th section of many different aspects of Covid-19 in the US.)

The paragraph before that included "I've just checked the CDC website about Covid-19 as updated on 28-Oct-20 at 1:20pm. It includes 8,752,794 total cases, +72,183 New Cases, 503,783 new cases in the last 7 days, which averages 71,969 per day, which is much higher than other recent figures, 225,985 total deaths, +901 new deaths."
I've just checked it again: 9,808,411 total cases, +93,811 New Cases, 236,547 total deaths, +1,072 new deaths.
In the past 11 days, thanks to Trump's lies and policies, the USA weekly number of new cases and deaths continues to increase and accelerate significantly.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
9-Nov-2020 17:28 Message #4797431
Given it seems this is the only way out of the complete mess we've got ourselves into, it is indeed great news.
Any vaccine throws up lots of questions though about cost, whether it's mandatory or not, will you have to show proof that you've had it etc etc.
Stock markets have bounced on the news which should be good for my pension though, so that can't be bad...


The vaccine is certainly a quicker way out to escape the virus which is killing millions so I welcome it. I can't see it being mandatory but it will definitely be expensive. So far the government has spent a lot more on protecting the public than most would have imagined but that must be a good thing to put lives before anything else.

It's amazing how quickly the stock markets reacted but you need a good understanding of the market to predict what might happen.

Stored under liquid nitrogen, I suppose, which probably means that they will have to have dedicated centres to get the vaccine.

It will probably be available in limited amounts to begin with so having only dedicated centres might not be a problem.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
9-Nov-2020 17:28 Message #4797432
Given it seems this is the only way out of the complete mess we've got ourselves into, it is indeed great news.
Any vaccine throws up lots of questions though about cost, whether it's mandatory or not, will you have to show proof that you've had it etc etc.
Stock markets have bounced on the news which should be good for my pension though, so that can't be bad...


The vaccine is certainly a quicker way out to escape the virus which is killing millions so I welcome it. I can't see it being mandatory but it will definitely be expensive. So far the government has spent a lot more on protecting the public than most would have imagined but that must be a good thing to put lives before anything else.

It's amazing how quickly the stock markets reacted but you need a good understanding of the market to predict what might happen.

Stored under liquid nitrogen, I suppose, which probably means that they will have to have dedicated centres to get the vaccine.

It will probably be available in limited amounts to begin with so having only dedicated centres might not be a problem.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
9-Nov-2020 18:16 Message #4797438
Of course Jeff, one could ask what might have happened had this announcement come just before the Presidential election instead of a few days later?
I didn't watch Boris' latest press briefing, but it seems they are dampening expectations about the vaccine with quotes about swallows and summer.
You do have to wonder why the stock markets around the world would react so positively to the news though, maybe they know more than we do....
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
9-Nov-2020 18:36 Message #4797440
Gosh no, this news could not have been allowed earlier, after all Trump was documented for saying there would be a surprise a couple of days before the election (meaning the vaccination).

Erm .... so why is Biden making a speech about covid, and going into detail all about his elaborate plans (sorry I didn't listen to details) for precautions, etc. possible lockdown? Is the world going mad. We actually knew, I know for a fact I mentioned it on here, that it was highly likely a working vaccine would be available before christmass.

85 year olds and med. staff will receive it first. And we have ordered a huge amount, the question is how willing will people be to take it. Not sure myself.
Male
FirmButFair-TrollPatrol  Male  North Yorkshire
9-Nov-2020 18:41 Message #4797442
Johnson is right to be cautious even though any major breakthrough is good news. No point in undoing the precautions which have been put into place prematurely. Plenty of time for that once mass vaccinations have taken place.

I wouldn't be surprised if news of the vaccine wasn't kept under wraps to prevent Trump from giving any good news to the US prior to the election.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
9-Nov-2020 18:42 Message #4797443
Stock markets are volitile beasts at the best of times, I imagine that theres hope that this vaccine will be out for general use before any of its competitors therefore making husge profits for some.

The first people to recieve vaccination will be front line staff, I don't have a problem with that, they run the risk of getting a higher viral load than the rest of us, making them not just more likely to get it but to die from it too.

Its brilliant news, and I suspect that governments all over the world want to remind people that its not ready yet and won't be generally available for a while so we still need to take precuations and not go mad with relief.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
9-Nov-2020 18:46 Message #4797444
Sorry, 85+ priority. They're very welcome, if they consent. I steer away from the flu vaccine, covid would be a brand new ball game.
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset
9-Nov-2020 19:39 Message #4797450
Frontline workers, being at the vanguard frontline of the action will, again, be taking one for the team by being unwitting caccine guinea pigs although that will, likely, mean that by the time the great unwashed get their opportunity or instruction to take the vaccine, any glitches may well have been fully ironed out by then.

Male
Beach  Male  Dorset
9-Nov-2020 19:40 Message #4797451
(SP) vaccine
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
9-Nov-2020 22:13 Message #4797457
Hierophant: "Of course Jeff, one could ask what might have happened had this announcement come just before the Presidential election instead of a few days later?"

In that case I think that Trump would have won by far the election. And if any court orders some areas to hold the election again in an area because of proven significant fraud there, then I think that Trump will win those areas.

This is because many believe lies by Trump and his allies that the vaccine is thanks to his Operation Warp Speed, and the general euphoria of perhaps having a good vaccine. That ignores that it will take months to be generally available, during which time Trump will have caused many more unnecessary deaths, with the help of his lying Coronavirus Task Force advisor Scott Atlas (see "potus and flotus have tested positive for covid," on 30-Oct-20 at 22:23). As recently as election night 3 November, over 100 people gathered, with little social distancing and few masks, in the White House East Room. So far, ~30 White House Staff, including senior figures, have caught Covid-19.

Operation Warp Speed allocated approx. $10 billion for a public–private partnership for Covid-19 vaccines - it was approved in March 2020 by Congress, which consists of Democrats and Republicans, not just by the White House.
Today we already have some false or misleading tweets by influential Trump people, such as (my emphasis):-
- Vice President Mike Pence tweeted "HUGE NEWS: Thanks to the public-private partnership forged by President @realDonaldTrump, @pfizer announced its Coronavirus Vaccine trial is EFFECTIVE, preventing infection in 90% of its volunteers."
- Geraldo Rivera, a Fox News host so with much influence, tweeted including "Stock Market going nuts on news #Pfizer vaccine is 90% Effective. Bravo to @realDonaldTrump and his #OperationWarpSpeed"

But in Pfizer, Kathrin Jansen, Senior Vice President and Head of Vaccine Research & Development said "We were never part of the Warp Speed. We have never taken any money from the US government, or from anyone."
In September Pfizer Chairman & CEO Albert Bourla said that they wouldn't take taxpayer money because "I wanted to liberate our scientists from any bureaucracy".

Today Alex Azar, Secretary of Health and Human Services, (who had tripled the price of Insulin, and opposes Obamacare), tweeted "As part of #OperationWarpSpeed the federal government signed an agreement with Pfizer in July for up to 600 million doses of their COVID-19 vaccine."
Note: That was for eventual supplying if successful, not for researching & developing.

FirmButFair-TrollPatrol: "I wouldn't be surprised if news of the vaccine wasn't kept under wraps to prevent Trump from giving any good news to the US prior to the election."
On 30 October Alyssa Farah, White House Director of Strategic Communications, admitted that Trump's hopes of a vaccine by "Election Day is kind of an arbitrary deadline".
There are Republican scientists as well as Democrat ones, and it would be hard to keep earlier development hidden from relevant people involved in the vaccine. Donald Trump Jr tweeted "The timing of this is pretty amazing. Nothing nefarious about the timing of this at all right?" - which is obviously sarcastic, and suggesting wicked or criminal motives of the scientists.
Such suggestions, without good evidence, can lead to violence against some of the scientists involved.

From https://www.pfizer.com/about/corporate_governance/political_action_committee_report I downloaded their Political Action Committee's (PAC) Contributions Report for 2019, and saw that it included "Fifty-four percent of the Pfizer PAC disbursements went to Republicans and 46% went to Democrats". For 2017-2018 it included "Sixty percent of the Pfizer PAC disbursements went to Republicans and 40% went to Democrats." So Pfizer gives more support to Republicans than to Democrats, and it is questionable that they would want Trump to los
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire
9-Nov-2020 23:20 Message #4797462
Lets hope the "Mink Farm" strain doesn't get loose and take over from the current strain - whih is what the vaccine is designed for. The "Mink" strain has change its spikes - the bit most vaccines try to block. I think Boris has done the right thing stopping incoming passengers from Denmark where it is gaining a small foothold.

Cunning little beggars these viruses.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire
12-Nov-2020 01:00 Message #4797655
God you guys are trusting. No-one has any idea what the side effects of this jab will be and they don't care. Follow the money.

Any day now the more sceptical and reluctant will start to be denounced in the mainstream media as "selfish" and "enemies of the people".
Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
12-Nov-2020 07:28 Message #4797660
It's not necessarily a case of being trusting. Many like myself will have followed all news relating to the vaccine rather than the mainstream and social media hype. I will do that and speak to my own doctor before weighing up the pros and cons and making a decision.

Some who are trying to play it safe may be worried about too many sceptics spreading the virus.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
12-Nov-2020 07:40 Message #4797663
I wonder if the Oxford vaccine that sounded so promising is still on track, we might end up with a smorgasbord to choose from.
I do hope there isn't the same vitriol aimed at those who don't want to take it as there is at those who don't buy into the mask wearing.
I suspect a person won't be able to resume a "normal" life until they can prove they've been vaccinated, so it will be mandatory as such - travel to foreign countries would be a case in point...
Male
The_38th_Parallel  Male  Essex
12-Nov-2020 09:29 Message #4797668
TheJewessRebecca 12-Nov-2020 01:00
God you guys are trusting. No-one has any idea what the side effects of this jab will be and they don't care. Follow the money.


Infamy, Infamy.
They've all got it infamy.
What a Carry On.
;-)
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
12-Nov-2020 19:03 Message #4797737
No we don't know what if any side effects of a vaccine will or could be, but we know the effects of covid, some people are lucky and get it mildly, some it kills and others have life changing consequenses from it. I honestly don't understand anti-vaxers, what are you afraid will happen? The other thing I notice about anti-vaxers is many promote alternative therapies, well so do I in many cases, but to me a vaccine operates on a homeopathic principle of treating like with like to produce an immune response, so how can giving an altered bit of virus as a vaccine that shows they bodies immune system how to recognise and stop it be different either in practice or principle?
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
15-Nov-2020 19:41 Message #4798035
The Pfizer website updated 9 November includes:-
"Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first interim efficacy analysis
Analysis evaluated 94 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in trial participants
Study enrolled 43,538 participants, with 42% having diverse backgrounds, and no serious safety concerns have been observed; Safety and additional efficacy data continue to be collected ...
Clinical trial to continue through to final analysis at 164 confirmed cases in order to collect further data and characterize the vaccine candidate’s performance against other study endpoints"

Since 11 November the Gamaleya National Center of Epidemiology and Microbiology in Moscow and the Russian Direct Investment Fund claimed that the Russian COVID-19 "Sputnik V" vaccine was 92% effective.

I'm haven't got the expertise or knowledge to check the statistics or how truthful they are. Maybe, just maybe, the Russian vaccine, which was approved 3 months before the American vaccine, might be better than the American vaccine.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
16-Nov-2020 12:35 Message #4798103
Apparently, Moderna have done better, their vaccine is almost 95% effective.....
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire
16-Nov-2020 13:54 Message #4798108
I know at least three who won't be having the vaccine until it's been thoroughly tested in the community.

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