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Could this be a victory for empathy?

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terry  Male  West Yorkshire
18-Oct-2020 08:56 Message #4795419
Apparently Jacinda Ardern's party have won the New Zealand elections by quite a large margin (for their system of voting).

Whilst she and her party are not in any way perfect, Ms Ardern in particular, and like some other female leaders, has had a different, more empathic style of talking to the electorate. Do you think this vote is simply a reflection of the mood in New Zealand or could it be the start of a more caring world?
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
18-Oct-2020 09:03 Message #4795421
I'm pleased she won. We don't have any leader or any political party which I would say is similar but I might vote for it if we did.

A more caring world is a long way off but we must keep trying.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
18-Oct-2020 09:04 Message #4795422
I think it's merely a reflection of the mood in the country. Covid is all people are thinking about and she apparently "beat" the virus.
It's debatable whether it's a price worth paying, (beating the virus, not electing her I mean) time will tell I guess....
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
18-Oct-2020 09:40 Message #4795435
I think it is a massive vote of confidence in how she has kept the folks of NZ safe from covid. Her success in that department may be based on empathy, but may be more based on taking the right decisions and acting swiftly with the interests of the nation at the fore. In stark contrast to the self interested bungling we have seen here.
Sadly, I don't think it is a sign of a more caring world. You get good people and not so good people. Sometimes the good people make it to positions of influence, but mostly shit floats to the top, and not many people get there by being nice people.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
18-Oct-2020 10:06 Message #4795438
I agree with Minnie.

But I think a lot of NZ will have remembered her empathic response to the gunning of the Mosque and the congruent response to the hugs she gave to many involved.

I think NZ being more isolated by sea than the UK might have helped in reducing transmission of Covid.

The UK has consistently avoided a fairer and representative voting system because it serves the purpose of the recent Conservative leaders to maintain the unfair and less representative system.

Emotional Intelligence is far more important that what most people see as intelligent, and as I have said before, sociopath self serving 1:100 of us are most likely to get into high level politics so we likely have the least emotionally intelligent making decision for making themselves more powerful than considering the people they are supposed to represent.
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire
18-Oct-2020 10:29 Message #4795439
She seems popular and a decent person......The person of the moment.....She's doing well.....

I didn't know much about her before the terrorist attack.....She handled that well.....

I don't follow a lot of politics around the world......Only the stuff that gets mainstream type coverage....

Her predecessor resigned.......I think due to becoming unpopular.......Things turn.......

Jacinda has some skeletons to beat her with when things turn.....She admitted smoking Cannabis.......That's ok at the moment.......but it's lurking in the background waiting to pounce.....

In the meantime.....She seems to be doing good......
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
18-Oct-2020 11:06 Message #4795442
Does anyone other than the gutter press worry about a bit of pot smoking in the past? I'm more suspicious of those who have supposedly done nothing wrong.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
18-Oct-2020 11:13 Message #4795446
Well, for once, I agree with Mr Quiet.

Although I wouldn't dismiss anyone who had done nothing wrong, I particularly think those who have learned from past experiences can have ore insight into how to solve problems.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
18-Oct-2020 11:35 Message #4795450
I hope the world rather than think the world is becoming more empathic, but I imagine if it is, it is at such a slow pace we won't notice much in a lifetime.

It's funny how things come together sometimes, and last evening I caught up with an email I intended to read from Nature on the subject of empathy, or is EQ (emotional quotient) more important than IQ (intelligence quotient), the latter being more to do with academic prowess.

I am delighted to use Corbyn as an example. In fact I could also use Biden, as Trump publicly slanted Biden in their debate on how Biden didn't do well at school or graduate with anything high flying. The same put downs were targeted at Corbyn, that he dropped out and didn't get into Uni.

I have been interested in this for many years and have read quite a lot on the subject, one being Howard Gardner's "Multiple Intelligences" where he advocates society stops just assessing ability on just one aspect of achievement, as by doing this we are ignoring possibly other more useful and helpful skills.

We are in a society who is supposed to be advocating more diversity with kind of would go along with society including more decisions that are inclusive of the life experience of the diverse. Some might call or see it as tokenism, but maybe that is where it starts. Those who feel threatened often shout negativity at things that might infiltrate their previously protected powerbase?

Let me give you another example of why I am so interested. Sunday morning, partner not able to be here so I can enjoy binging on Sunday morning TV that starts with politics, then religion, which is odd because I am not religious, and Sunday Morning Live comes on about horses and how they need rescuing due to Covid, because so many are being abandoned due to owners no longer having the income to care for them. One of the presenters has a son with Down's Syndrome and this part of the show explains (which I had come across before) how horses have a limbic brain similar to our own, which means they have a high level potential to engage and help humans with their primitive level of emotional intelligence.

Previously, I have read how one of the African countries who was abusive to dogs, have now discovered how by embracing and caring for dogs in their society, is massively helping with mental health.

So it is where we have to have hope, I and hope that as a world, we are slowly moving to realise that by embracing sentient beings as not lower value than that of humans, humans will survive more healthier by realising humans are just being arrogant and harming themselves by being users rather than partners?
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
18-Oct-2020 11:59 Message #4795457
I hope the world becomes a kinder place, I hope that the fall out from covid will mean that people choose to be more open and sharing, instead of closed, miserly and distrustful.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
18-Oct-2020 12:15 Message #4795461
Well I don't see much evidence of covid bringing people together, at least not on the grand scale.
We have suspicion all around and we are actively encouraged to dob on our neighbours. Emotional blackmail is the norm these days.
Countries are putting up the shutters and becoming insular, New Zealand is a perfect example of that - the borders are closed and nobody can get in or out.
People, even supposed liberals, don't seem too concerned about these losses of freedom, in fact most want to go further, as a result the laws that governments around the world are forcing through in the name of covid are going largely unnoticed and unchecked.
One day we will wake up and realise that those freedoms are gone....
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
18-Oct-2020 14:58 Message #4795466
I've found people generally much friendlier since Covid. I noticed it mostly during the lockdown when passing people out for exercise and walks who never spoke in the past saying good morning and stopping for a distanced chat.
Now it's noticeable in the shopping malls and venues where everyone seems to have something in common which is fighting Covid. Prior to this it was most noticeable around Christmas specially when it snowed or to a lesser extent during a very hot summer where strangers can discuss the weather.

I agree with you Heirophant that it wouldn't be good to have our freedoms taken away but I haven't had any reason to think that is happening yet or that it is likely to happen. I have no objections to complying with rules which are in the best interest of myself and others. I already keep to speed limits, don't drink and drive or use a phone in the car. There must be hundreds of these rules I comply with without giving it any real thought.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
18-Oct-2020 15:06 Message #4795469
How on earth can you say our freedoms are not being taken away?...
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
18-Oct-2020 15:17 Message #4795472
Wow, Mr Quiet, on this thread I voted it excellent!

I feel I have experienced the same.

In addition, I don't fear being controlled in a community way. It maybe where our agreement diverges, because that is where my socialist beliefs emerged from, that we share information to care about community than the self.

On my morning binge on TV, the BBC News showed that one thing the UK have advanced on through being able to study clusters of Covid outbreaks such as the Norfolk meat factory, is that Covid has a genetic code that can more accurately pinpoint who caught Covid from who down to DNA level.

In contrast to Hierophants fears, I would like us all to be DNA fingerprinted at birth so we can identify criminal behaviour better from hairs or skin they may leave behind such as in rape, batterings, domestic violence, animal cruelty, even down to who didn't pick up the litter or dog poo.

I think the fear, is not having an empathic set of leaders, but then I would agree to anyone entering politics should have a brain scan for psychopathy so those who can feign having a conscience couldn't be in charge.

Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
18-Oct-2020 15:46 Message #4795476
Apparently Jacinda Ardern's party have won the New Zealand elections by quite a large margin (for their system of voting).
Arden's style of leadership and clear communication during the covid crisis, I would say, won her the landslide victory. Her empathy with the country and the people. Of course N. Zealand is not as large a country as some.

Will it lead to a more caring world? I'm afraid that's pie in the sky. N. Zealand is not a huge influence in changing the world.
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire
18-Oct-2020 17:57 Message #4795501
So many things give hope to a more caring world......then it all goes back to as it was again....

Disasters are always doing it.....People start shedding tears and caring about it all......then a few weeks later......

Sporting events are often doing it......and the same happens.....Olympic ceremonies with their messages of peace......People getting emotional.....holding hands.....this is a new dawn etc etc......and then........all back to as it was.....

Diana car crashes and the paparazzi........How it's all going to be different from then on......No more hounding......and then all back to as it was again.....

With regards to freedoms being taken away.......Whether the virus is something that's being used to take those freedoms........It's not hard to see that restrictions are happening......It's not hard to see that a lot of freedom is being taken away.......Some may come back......but I believe some will stay.........The new 'norm'

And who knows.....maybe the new norm will create a more caring world........It perhaps takes new rules and laws to help a new caring world......The examples above seem to show what happens if it's just left to the public.....It needs more....

I won't hold my breath though........It'll probably be just as uncaring......with glimmers of caring lasting a short time......Same as now......but with more restrictions......
brisinger-the-beekeeper  Male  Lancashire
18-Oct-2020 18:28 Message #4795502
I'm too cynical to believe that people on the whole would vote for a more caring world.
bella111  Female  Devon
18-Oct-2020 18:28 Message #4795503
I believe she was also an Advisor to Blair in London during his time, he took us into a War so not quite sure what that means to her views on empathy.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
18-Oct-2020 18:43 Message #4795504
To an extent of course our freedoms have been taken away, but we are in the middle of a world wide pandemic which puts a bit of a different complexion on things. We could always take Swedens route with the pandemic, although you'd still be required by other countries travel restriction and self isolation rules if you went abroad. If you have a country where theres almost no covid why woud you want to open to covid hotspots? New Zealanders are obviously happy with Adhern and her policies.

Lyn I wouldn't like to see us having our DNA taken at birth, nor would I want people being brain scanned for psycopathy for anything as a matter of form, even if they are entering politics. I don't think it would mean we had "nice" politicians, I think theres lots of nastiness swirling around in the human mind and not all of it can be picked up on a brain scan. Trouble with DNA as evidence in criminal cases is that its only of any use if the persons who's DNA is found dosn't have a right to be at the crime scene in the first place. This would be particularly so with DV, if people are living together or sharing a house then you'd expect their DNA to be there, nor would it stop the he said/she said in rape cases, the issue of consent would still be there. If something blew out of my bin when the rubbish/recycling was being collected, who would be at fault for it becoming litter, me for putting it in the bin, or the bin collector for allowing it to blow away and not chasing it?
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
18-Oct-2020 19:00 Message #4795505
"To an extent of course our freedoms have been taken away, but we are in the middle of a world wide pandemic which puts a bit of a different complexion on things."

Indeed, but it will be interesting to see how fast, if at all, these freedoms are restored after the pandemic is over....
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
18-Oct-2020 21:08 Message #4795512
Yes, you are right WH. There are too may complexities, but it is having it's uses in identifying who caught Covid off who, so this advance is where some good might come out of the bad, so differentiating at that level is astounding, and probably have uses to track viruses in the future.

I think this is because virus affects our DNA and leaves a marker (which is scary in itself), and why as a flu, it is not like other flu's, with huge variation in not only symptoms, but complications, almost like being invaded by a science fiction alien. Now, there's a thought!!!
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
19-Oct-2020 11:17 Message #4795533
The restrictions we have at present are enforceable because people by and large consent to them because they can see the benefits of them to themselves and the wider community, but not everyone is consenting, many are ignoring them completely. The police don't have the numbers nor I think the desire to keep up with restrictions after the emergency has passed, they don't seem to have the numbers to do more than token efforts anyway.

The only one I do think will be iffy is the alcohol ban, or rather the ban on it being sold after 10pm, I wonder if theres a hope that by stopping people buying alcohol after 10pm there will be a fall in the number of alcohol related illnesses? I doubt there will because people will just buy more earlier in the day.

Hiero what do you think will remain controlled and what do you think will open?
Greencare  Female  Berkshire
19-Oct-2020 11:20 Message #4795534
I can't think of anything which will remain once the crisis is over unless it's to do with stricter regulation of illnesses.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
19-Oct-2020 11:29 Message #4795535
On being interviewed, several Swedish residents and a couple of leaders say that the Swedish culture is more willing to cooperate with requests to distance without law changes.

In the UK, we seem to have an increasing mentality of selfishness, where individual choice overrides the choices of others who are affected by the choices of the selfish individuals. There is less concern for their community.

This arose, as said before, in passive smoking, as a passive smoker, the individual's choice to contaminate the air of those who didn't smoke was seen as a priority.

Now we have the same with Covid. Even though I now lean to not isolating and doing what Sweden does, I don't see it as my choice to break the rules.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
19-Oct-2020 11:32 Message #4795536
"Hiero what do you think will remain controlled and what do you think will open?"

I predict in 12 months time most of the rules we now have will still be in place.
Mandatory muzzle wearing, people hiding behind perspex screens, reduced hours and the rest will be here for yonks, companies have spent a fortune on this stuff, so it might as well stay in place.
From what I'm hearing the vaccine is going to be nothing more than a glorified Lemsip...

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