Conversation The Common Room
Helper icon Helpers: Chris2mates , LLstill , PrincessFruitBat


About us

Midsummer's Eve is a free online dating community - based around friendship, real meetups, real people, and real relationships. We've been online since 1999 and have twice won Radio 2's Web Site of the Day award. So why not join us for free and join in the discussion?

Discrimination...

or preference?

1 2 Next   Last  

Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
13-Oct-2020 09:39 Message #4795007
Hi Folks!

In todays world we see some much of the equality debate and the discrimination of certain people. Now, if there is anyone on here who is unfamiliar with my views on gender/race…. Then you’ll possibly be lost.

We know all about the perceived struggles that apparently face anyone who is non white or female. Also for people who identify as…. Or people with different sexual preferences. All of which I disagree with, we all know.

If you remove race, gender and sexuality from it… Is there discrimination that goes deeper than the above mentioned bunch?

Like for example, would a short white man be discriminated against for his height in aspects of life? Or would a black woman be discriminated against, not because her gender or race but if she has a speech impediment? If someone turned up for a job interview and they were ugly as sin, would they be discriminated irrespective of their gender/race?

What is the difference between discrimination and preference in personal life, or social circles?

Example, lets say we have a woman called Jane, she goes online and creates a profile on Tinder/PoF or what ever “I’m looking for a man, 30-45, 6ft+, full head of hair, must work out and be able to hold a conversation!”

Now Jane has discriminated against people who aren’t men (sexism), men who are out with her age group (ageism) men who are under 6ft (heightism) men who are bald (baldism) men who might not be able-bodied (Disability discrimination) and finally she discriminates against men who are socially awkward, possibly mental health issues.

Why do we as individuals get to discriminate so much, but companies aren’t permitted to do the same when hiring?

If Jane mentioned above was looking for a job and she saw one she liked the sound of and it read “For this position we require a woman, mustn’t be over 30 years of age, must be in good physical shape, must be attractive, have no children and will be expected to wear only the best designer gear to work, as our brand has a high image to uphold!” Jane would go ape shit!!!

I know employers are allowed to discriminate in certain circumstances.

What are your thoughts?

Have you witnessed, been guilty of, or been subject to discrimination for something outwith the “Big Three” Race/Gender/Sexuality…. Possibly religion too! :o


Just my ramblings on a rain Tuesday morning here in Scotlandville!!!
Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
13-Oct-2020 15:43 Message #4795038
Some people moan and whine and always have a reason why they are not successful and others just get on with and prove it's usually a case of making a bit more effort for yourself.
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
13-Oct-2020 15:57 Message #4795043
"What is the difference between discrimination and preference in personal life, or social circles?

Why do we as individuals get to discriminate so much, but companies aren’t permitted to do the same when hiring?"

I would say in one's personal/social life that preference/discrimination are on a continuum and whilst there are societal norms I cannot think of any applicable laws offhand.

There is of course lots of legislation pertaining to the workplace and sometimes it will be ignored/sometimes will be made a major issue - though times are hard right now and it's clearly an employer's market. So if say you are a female working on the cosmetics counter in an upmarket department store your employer may ?? well expect you to attend in full immaculate make up every day at your own expense.
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
13-Oct-2020 18:28 Message #4795058
If you do not want to date someone, because they are ugly?
Yes, personal preference is strange, but the above sentence covers it.
Maybe with the addition, (ugly to you).

I not date ugly women, would rather visit B & Q.
Male
brisinger-the-beekeeper  Male  Lancashire
13-Oct-2020 19:38 Message #4795066
I would say that discrimination is to dismiss someone/something out of hand not even considering them.
In the case of dating, for instance you may have stated you want a "tall man". You won't even consider meeting a small man.
Preference is what you desire. For instance you may have a preference for a "tall man" but find out you like the smaller one you've met more.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
13-Oct-2020 22:14 Message #4795077
Could it a question of politically correct dictating who you must like and even dislike? Ignore it. As long as one is polite to everyone, you are not discriminating against anyone.
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
15-Oct-2020 08:51 Message #4795182
"I would say that discrimination is to dismiss someone/something out of hand not even considering them.
In the case of dating, for instance you may have stated you want a "tall man". You won't even consider meeting a small man.
Preference is what you desire. For instance you may have a preference for a "tall man" but find out you like the smaller one you've met more."


That is a great explanation Bri.
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
15-Oct-2020 08:53 Message #4795183
"Could it a question of politically correct dictating who you must like and even dislike? Ignore it. As long as one is polite to everyone, you are not discriminating against anyone."

Yes I agree, if having to let someone down for a silly reason, silly to most but important to you, doing so very politely, and with respect to that person, is a nice way to do it.
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
15-Oct-2020 09:07 Message #4795184
I don't really know what I was hoping to achieve from this thread, the reason it came to my mind....

I have met a lovely woman online, she is drop dead gorgeous…. She is from Morocco but living in France studying, we just chat nothing more, and before anyone says anything…..It is through Skype and doesn’t/hasn’t cost me a penny. She is 21, and again…. Stunningly beautiful! She studies something…. And was telling me she needs a part time job. Unfortunately in France, they apparently aren’t happy to hire Moroccans! Now obviously my suspicions arose… anyway. If I was the owner of a cafe, or a venue where customers came in and dealt with someone, I’d hire her in a heart beat! She would have people coming back for more of anything slapped on a plate and shoved in their faces. Anyway, that is me positively discriminating for her, based on her looks.

Which just had me thinking... Which is never a good thing.

I'm not against people, or indeed companies selecting anyone they want to hire/date/have in their social groups, for what ever reason.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
15-Oct-2020 10:07 Message #4795197
Discrimination is difficult to define. If I need a someone to carry heavy boxes and talk to my clients I would probably steer away from anyone who is elderly, fat or scrawny or who looked delicate. I might also avoid anyone who was pregnant, loud mouthed, scruffy, a smoker, or who couldn't converse in English with my clients.

I'm sure one of that group would complain of discrimination when I turned them away.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
15-Oct-2020 10:37 Message #4795205
I agree with Bris's insight on this matter but in trying to answer your questions from my perspective.

In todays world we see some much of the equality debate and the discrimination of certain people. Now, if there is anyone on here who is unfamiliar with my views on gender/race…. Then you’ll possibly be lost.
I have to admit, I am not entirely familiar with your views but I don't feel lost.

We know all about the perceived struggles that apparently face anyone who is non white or female. Also for people who identify as…. Or people with different sexual preferences. All of which I disagree with, we all know.
perceived and apparently is a bit of dismissal as it is obvious such discrimination exists, but I think because it exists, it can also be used as misunderstanding where perception of the supposed victim believes they have been discriminated against, but may not actually have been on that occasion. Here I am thinking about a friend who was referred to race relations for not interviewing a black woman having told her the position was filled. The black woman wrongly jumped to the conclusion it was because she was black, but the position had genuinely already been filled and my friend already employed many black care workers.

If you remove race, gender and sexuality from it… Is there discrimination that goes deeper than the above mentioned bunch?
I think there is. As a tall child then woman, I had been brainwashed by my mother that short men were undesirable. It shows how we can be quietly influenced by family culture. It's even more odd because my mother was average, but even before I grew to 5' 10" (which was from age 14) it was the first comment my mother ever seemed to make on photographs of couples etc. She always seemed to make a point of how my dad was taller than her for no logical reason and had I taken a shorter boy home, it would have been an issue I would have tried to avoid. I am only mentioning this as an example of how we can be brainwashed by parental behaviour into how some people are preferred to others. This makes my mother sound horrible, but she actually helped anyone out, and would have welcomed me bringing any colour or religion home, but not short...LOL
I discovered how lovely short men often are from MSE and I grew older, melding of minds if far more important, and I am far more confident and mischievous than to worry about altitude. My partner's deceased partner was tiny, so I think it took a bit of getting used to, having a lanky one like me :-)

Like for example, would a short white man be discriminated against for his height in aspects of life? Or would a black woman be discriminated against, not because her gender or race but if she has a speech impediment? If someone turned up for a job interview and they were ugly as sin, would they be discriminated irrespective of their gender/race?
I think short men are discriminated against by women, but I think short men can break through if they have confidence. It has been suggested that good looking men, not always, but can be less interesting and a bit too used to women falling at their feet, whereas an interesting short man has to earn that interest...but then if they do, Cupid can fire that shot anyway.

What is the difference between discrimination and preference in personal life, or social circles?
I think we have unconscious discrimination but our preferences are maybe more a conscious thing?
Maybe sometimes our preferences can override our internal discrimination, if we allow it.

Why do we as individuals get to discriminate so much, but companies aren’t permitted to do the same when hiring?
I think BOYDEL answered that. But I would add that discrimination still happens, even if against the law, because the interviewer is likely unconsciously discriminating and even if consciously doing do, there isn't always evidence to prove otherwise.

*Have you witnessed, been guilty of, or been subject to dis
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
15-Oct-2020 10:39 Message #4795208
oops too long...forgot the rest!
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
15-Oct-2020 10:40 Message #4795210
"If I need a someone to carry heavy boxes and talk to my clients I would probably steer away from anyone who is elderly, fat or scrawny or who looked delicate. I might also avoid anyone who was pregnant, loud mouthed, scruffy, a smoker, or who couldn't converse in English with my clients."

As a business owner that would be completely your decision.

If your business is a success then great, if the fella down the road who hires good candidates who are fat, or scruffy, and he provides a better, cheaper, quicker service, as he hires the best people for the job regardless of appearance.... If he puts you out of business then good for the customers.

If Bobs Breakfast Bar only hired the sexiest of young waitresses to serve his customers, but they were crap at their jobs, and NoSaints Breakfast Bar only hired the best people for the job, never bothered about appearances/race/gender ect.... and all Bobs customers went there, as they actually wanted fed.... then great.

The best business model wins!
Male
brisinger-the-beekeeper  Male  Lancashire
15-Oct-2020 16:11 Message #4795244
I think that you have missed out a third option... Realism

Realism is when with the best will in the world someone can't do something.
An example of this could be if a wheelchair disabled person applied for a job which included going up ladders.
It's neither discrimination nor preference.

Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
15-Oct-2020 16:36 Message #4795247
Realism and common sense. I have heard these more this year than at any time I can remember. Is it because we are gradually losing both?
Female
Cassis  Female  Cambridgeshire
17-Oct-2020 06:02 Message #4795348
Recently I read of a young man who, apparently, had been taken on as a delivery driver after just a phone interview. The Company then sent him what was supposed to be the terms of contract I think, but inadvertently sent the email from the woman who hired him meant for her colleague which read, "This guy is very chavvey; don't use him unless it's for multi-drop, NOT doorbell". That based on a short phone conversation; and he looked very presentable on the photo I saw.

I was once turned down for a lecturing job at interview because, quote, "You're a very attractive woman, and you would be teaching all young men - how could you cope?" !! My answer that I would cope the same as I would if it was women didn't seem acceptable.
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
17-Oct-2020 07:48 Message #4795351
"I think that you have missed out a third option... Realism

Realism is when with the best will in the world someone can't do something.
An example of this could be if a wheelchair disabled person applied for a job which included going up ladders.
It's neither discrimination nor preference."


Yes, that is correct....

If lets say Suzie, she wants to "discriminate" against men who are under 6ft, earn under £77k pa, who aren't muscular, toned and chiseled..... but Suzie is an ugly fat cow.... in reality she hasn't a chance as her desired man, would be desired by much more attractive women than her!

I much preferred your example of a wheel chair user applying for a job as a roofer though.

I suppose in reality, all employers would want the perfect employee, but have to take who applies in order to get the job done!
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
17-Oct-2020 08:03 Message #4795353
"I was once turned down for a lecturing job at interview because, quote, "You're a very attractive woman, and you would be teaching all young men - how could you cope?" !! My answer that I would cope the same as I would if it was women didn't seem acceptable."

Was the person who asked this male or female?

Also, I'm not sure what the person was getting at. Did they think that is Cassis walking into a class, as a very attractive woman that the young men would be wolf whistling, cat calling you, trying to flirt with you, or struggling to conceal their.... excitement to see you? I think if a very attractive teacher was to be teaching young men, they would probably be better behaved, pay more attention and possibly try harder to impress.....

Now Cassis, we can see by your picture that you are indeed a very attractive woman.... In the instance above, I think you feel like you were discriminated against due to your good looks. Have you found in life you have received more positive discrimination or more negative discrimination based on your appearance?

You must forgive me and possibly others, but I would have thought being attractive.... the world would be your oyster! People being nice to you, people wanting to take you out and spend time, and money with you, preferential treatment where ever you went.... Is this not the case? Is being attractive a blessing, and a curse?
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
17-Oct-2020 11:35 Message #4795366
I used to know driving instructor, she very attractive.
No male pupils over 19, said easy to put in place, when young.
One day office give her older male pupil.
You will have no problems with him, they said.
But he tried his luck on first lesson, so she reject.

Even local vicar tried his luck!
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Oct-2020 18:52 Message #4795404
Bob will like this one. lol
Type the words "happy white woman" into google images and see what you get.
Do the same with "happy black woman" and see the difference....
Male
brisinger-the-beekeeper  Male  Lancashire
17-Oct-2020 19:35 Message #4795406
The first link to dictionary pointed to snow bunny!
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
18-Oct-2020 00:48 Message #4795418
Its nice to see happy women, thanks Hierophant.

I look, they nice images.
And I learn to spell name too.
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
18-Oct-2020 08:59 Message #4795420
"Bob will like this one. lol
Type the words "happy white woman" into google images and see what you get.
Do the same with "happy black woman" and see the difference...."


Gullible white women, doing what their mainstream media/advertising overlords are telling them to do, and get impregnated by immigrants?

And Black women in pictures by themselves acting happy?

Here is one for you.... Type in "White single mothers" into google images LMFAO!!!
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
18-Oct-2020 09:08 Message #4795423
The subliminal messaging is quite shocking, it's like watching daytime telly....
Male
HonestBob  Male  the Central region
18-Oct-2020 09:27 Message #4795427
"The subliminal messaging is quite shocking, it's like watching daytime telly...."

Yes, I wonder if women are more susceptible to it than men?

1 2 Next   Last  


 Back to top

 Help with conversations