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The Vaccine

.... and we're off ......

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Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Sep-2020 13:51 Message #4792363
Looks like a world race is on for the vaccine.

Trump has hinted that there could be a surprise just before election day, people are assuming its a vaccine (first stage). Operation Warp Speed is the name.

Russia's vaccine is also ell ahead, but since no scientific data has been published, that's still in a bit in the air. 40,000 have been given this, results due next month. Sputnik V appears to be the front runner.

Then there's the Brit. vaccine, recovering from the slight hitch, but apparently neck in neck with the Russians. I think that's just called the Oxford vaccine.

China, the EU, all in dibbs to be the first. The WHO is not impressed and is asking that all work together to produce this. But rumour has it, its more like industrial espionage is going on to procure the first complete vaccine, esp. with Russia and China apparently.

It is not possible to change people and countries.
Neros1954  Male  Devon
15-Sep-2020 16:20 Message #4792369
It's a little reminiscent of the space race.
Beach  Male  Dorset
15-Sep-2020 22:15 Message #4792406

Logistically, even in some perfect scenario with a hypothetically safe vaccine released tomorrow, probably requiring 2 doses over a 4 - 5 week period, it would take several years to inoculate the whole population of planet earth.

Meanwhile, The Thing will continue its highly contagious rampage.
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
16-Sep-2020 15:25 Message #4792454
Logistics? I don't think they're likely to forget the logistics. They are supposed to have started planning that already. It's not beyond the feat of reality.

Hypothetic. I don't think hypothetic is on any agenda. There might be self interest and nation competition, but it's not going to benefit any country to send out anything that isn't 100% proof.

Such pessimism Beach. What would you suggest? Wait 4 years living like this? That just isn't in the human genome.

Well, I think the Russians might have it, or Us. There was apparently a breach of security just last week. Spying is back in, all over this arena. It was a Russian hack (I don't know a lot about these things) on us. As if we don't do exactly the same.
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
16-Sep-2020 15:55 Message #4792457
It's a little reminiscent of the space race.

Yep, first country to land the vaccine. Will be global celebrity, first country leader of planet plague ridden earth. Certainly Trump will go straight back into the Oval office.
Beach  Male  Dorset
16-Sep-2020 16:40 Message #4792459
Pessimism is the order of the day, Gilpin, because we can't just wish ourselves out of this nightmare.

Re Logistics.

Even if a vaccine fit for distribution did exist, please tell me how many warehouses / lorries / pharmacies / clinics and other distribution points actually have the technical or medical provisions and resources to store thousands / tens of thousands or millions of vaccine doses at -80 C to protect a vaccine along the supply chain? Pfizer's promised vaccine currently needs to be stored at -94C.

These are temperatures colder than the surface of Mars.

As far as I am aware, such storage requirement resources are not common anywhere along current supply chain lines.

Yet you nonchalantly state that "It's not beyond the feat of reality."


A fairy is just going to wave some magic wand, is she?

You add;

"There might be self interest and nation competition, but it's not going to benefit any country to send out anything that isn't 100% proof."

Have you been living under a rock?

The Russian and U.S vaccine push is entirely politically driven ... and since the failings of the CDC, (being leaned on to promote unqualified potential meds and procedures like Hydroxychloroquine and plasma treatment), Americans can no longer trust an institution it had trusted since the end of world war2.

Vaccines take years to work their way through medical trials and although the recent scare with the Oxford virus has been dismissed, there is always the potential for serious side effects to continue showing up for years. (The trial Oxford vaccine is reported to have interrupted messages being transmitted in the spinal cord of a test patient).

Just imagine Trump forcing a population to take an untested vaccine. (Because, whatever folk claim, without a time machine, any C19 vaccine can never be described as having been tested properly).

A year from now, aside from the ongoing C19 epidemic, America could have been turned into a country of zombies.


I see the UK has stunned the world again.

The American channels are all aghast in reporting that, once again, our incompetent Tory government, led by "details man" PM Johnson, are building on previous shambolic results by dropping the ball and running out of lab test resources to the tune of a quarter of a million backlog.

Well done, Boris.

Fat Tories everywhere must be so, so proud.
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
16-Sep-2020 20:26 Message #4792481
Well, I wouldn't have taken you for one of those that needs the help of rude and offensive to further your arguments.

Pessimism/negativity is the order of your day, don't assume it on behalf of others. Far from it.

I'm sure the scientists are aware of the temps. the vaccine needs to be stored at, there was a whole article about it in the Economist weeks ago, and they intend to find a way. Don't underestimate the human race.

Beach, do not assume we are the gods of science and medicine, and everyone else, Russians Chinese etc. are inferior. Or their methods are not being carried out by highly qualified and skilled medical and scientific peers. We to date are the worst performing countries (Europe) of the "advanced" world in this fiasco, we could take a lesson out of their book, and we are months behind in asking for donors of blood plasma, which we are doing at the moment. 1000s of lives could have been saved if we had not scoffed at others and believed we were somehow superior.

As it happens no, I can't imagine Trump forcing a population to take an untested vaccine, that sounds ridiculous. If you want to be taken seriously please produce some serious thought.

We know tests have run out, in fact I think I already criticized it on another thread.
Beach  Male  Dorset
16-Sep-2020 20:57 Message #4792490
Our PM promised “All tests to be returned within 24 hrs by June.” but the best figure actually ever achieved was 62%.

Today, (as just reported on LBC), it is 6% and there are, as of this evening, nearly a quarter of a million UK people in a backlog still awaiting their tests results with further thousands across the country, (as I write this), stating that they just can’t get a test. Meanwhile, those hundred’s of thousands of people still awaiting test results and those tens of thousands unable to even get tested are, likely, out in the community infecting others.

Today’s R number? The R rate is at least 1.1 in the UK overall with some locations, (the North West and London), registering as high as 1.3 and these figures take us back to a March 2020 transmission rate. (We went into lock-down when the rate first hit 1.4).

Fuss and nonsense? Midsummer members on here exasperated with “all the fuss” should rue the day they uttered such irresponsible thoughts as should the sniper troll who mocked my own observations that the virus spread directly through the air. (I had already worked that out back then but we’ve only just learned that China’s leader personally warned Trump that the virus was air-born back in February).

Taken seriously? Are you blind to what Trump has done and how cavalier he is with the lives of his own supporters?

Trump’s own words. On Feb. 7, during a taped interview with Bob Woodward, President Trump acknowledged that the coronavirus could be transmitted through the air, that it was very dangerous and that it would be difficult to contain. “This is deadly stuff,” he told the investigative journalist. “You just breathe the air, and that’s how it’s passed,” the president warned. but with an election on the horizon, Trump’s response was to underplay such a threat and ignore his own agencies advice to act on that information.

And even as recently as this week, he held an indoor rally in Nevada in front of a packed, mainly mask-less, crowd even though Nevada had passed a law dictating that there was a ban on any more than 50 people gathering together!

What chance has humanity got when its leaders are brazenly placing interests in commerce, finance and political aspirations ahead of public human health?

Yes. Ideas of opening up the economy, (and attempting to open up hospitals to treat people with cancer and other deadly “everyday” ailments), would, in theory, start to address massive collateral deaths that are occurring parallel with this global pandemic but unless the general public and politicians take this global pandemic seriously, we will, (or already are), in a position where the whole fabric of society is going to break down further than it is already.

The PM talks about the test “capacity” of the UK being 250,000 tests per day. He brazenly boasted as much a couple of hours ago yet our UK labs can only managed to test 60,000 per day on a good day.

If this situation remains as it is, (now 4000 infections per day again), without testing we’re going to be screwed, especially as winter flu arrives to confuse and compound matters. And even with a vaccine available, I promise you PM Johnson will cock up its distribution.
Beach  Male  Dorset
16-Sep-2020 21:35 Message #4792492
"That just isn't in the human genome."

Don't be a silly Billy. The genome is a piece of biological software that builds an organism and while it might influence thinking skills, I'm sure it doesn't discourage caution or patience when applied to the act of self survival.

If you want to be taken seriously please produce some serious thought. :-)
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
16-Sep-2020 21:49 Message #4792494
Oh my god, who are you ?

"The human genome is the genome of Homo sapiens. It is made up of 23 chromosome pairs with a total of about 3 billion DNA base pairs. There are 24 distinct human chromosomes: 22 autosomal chromosomes, plus the sex-determining X and Y chromosomes. Chromosomes 1-22 are numbered roughly in order of decreasing size."

Twilight zone.
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
16-Sep-2020 21:59 Message #4792496
If still in doubt, it's interconnected! The phrase is not uncommon in the english language. You must have heard it before. Or maybe not.

Biological software? Are you sure software didn't come first before brain? Quite sure? Are you in IT? Yes, obviously.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
16-Sep-2020 22:17 Message #4792498
Beach are you a fat or thin and death warmed up looking sort of Tory then?...
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
16-Sep-2020 22:57 Message #4792501
He is hiding behind the settee, type of tory?
He think it everywhere.
I bet he very thin from worry, worry about wind in passage.
He even worry about what Trump say.
What Trump know abart it?
Beach  Male  Dorset
16-Sep-2020 23:00 Message #4792502
Um. Well …

Let me check my graphical 8ft wide roller coaster of a wall chart where I log my INR results, my calorie intake, my alcohol units, our local C19 cases, my customer footfall, my daily electronic weight results and accompanying BMI readings . :-)

Put it this way; by May this year, I’d reached, (just about), the best BMI readings of the year, (at 25.5), which made me look utterly irresistible and delivered me a dead flat tummy and meant I looked fantastic in my Levis and white T shirt.

A confession though.

I know that nervous energy and fear for my own mortality probably accounted for a few of those lost pounds or burned calories.


My tall 6ft frame is up to a BMI approaching 27 currently, (so go figure), due largely to my complete inactivity in failing to pursue any outside activities like cycling, angling and field walking since the deadly non living pathogen started cramping my style. However, only yesterday, my friend Cara, (from a distance), gave me a lovely compliment and made me go all bashful by telling me just how good I looked. I coyly reminded her that I was wearing black trousers and a black shirt that was probably flattering my physique.

Nevertheless she told me she intended to bring round a potato casserole, (whatever that was), to “fatten me up!”

Words such as fat or chubby would not describe me though this very post is now inspiring me to get back to pursuing a bit more exercise than I am currently doing.

Thank you for that, Mr H.

I'd actually call myself a voter who voted Conservative this time.

You may call me a tall Tory if you must :-)

Beach  Male  Dorset
16-Sep-2020 23:23 Message #4792503
"Oh my god, who are you ?

"The human genome is the genome of Homo sapiens. It is made up of 23 chromosome pairs with a total of about 3 billion DNA base pairs. There are 24 distinct human chromosomes: 22 autosomal chromosomes, plus the sex-determining X and Y chromosomes. Chromosomes 1-22 are numbered roughly in order of decreasing size."

Twilight zone."

OH my God. I love you!

Twilight Zone captures exactly my character, my environment and my whole philosophy for negotiating this fascinating thing we call life. :-)

Why would anybody wish to live in a serious grown up world full of dead eyed adults when, by just shuffling into some Left-field perception of existence, we could lose ourselves in the mysteries and wonders of creativity and imagination?

I am no more a pessimist than I am a fat Tory. :-) Rather; I choose to wear my rose coloured Walter Mitty spectacles and fill my (real) world with passions and pursuits to, always, remind myself just how amazing and fantastic it is so be ... simply alive!

As I've stated in previous posts, to peek into my home is to view a vision of Ray Bradbury style wonder - with robots and drones and metal detectors and ... You get the idea?

Crazy inventor? Mmm. Not really but ... Yes.Twilight Zone. Astounding Stories. Wonderous Tales.

Those 50's sci fi magazines, (and their amazing graphics), are the mood boards that make up the collage of my life. :-)

Though, sure, I admit that the current Quatermass style dystopia we are now experiencing is challenging even my normally naive and innocent childlike view of the world. :-(
Beach  Male  Dorset
16-Sep-2020 23:26 Message #4792504
And I bet you're secretly thrilled, aren't you, Hiero ... to welcome the return of my passionate and flowery prose to these pages?

Well you are, aren't you? x
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Sep-2020 07:24 Message #4792506
To be honest Beach I'm slightly confused about you and another "flowery" contributor.
However, I refuse to believe an icon like yourself with such a blessed life and so many enamoured followers, would feel the need to go down "that path"....
Beach  Male  Dorset
17-Sep-2020 10:09 Message #4792520
I know. I saw the comment but have you not noticed Maglorian's appalling grammar and punctuation? Apples and oranges.

Seriously. I wouldn't waste my mental energy playing such a duplicitous game just to toy with the minds of a mere 30 regular contributors on here.

But you know that already; you mischief maker you. ;-)
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
17-Sep-2020 10:53 Message #4792527
Trump has again showed his confusion to put it mildly by saying that corona virus has a herd mentality. Now he's having another spat with the head of the CDC over when, if and who will get the first doses of a vaccine when it becomes available.

How much longer can people honestly keep defending him in the face of his wishful thinking, ignorance and confusion?

I wish Boris Johnson and co would stop going on about how we test a higher percentage of people per head of population than most other countries, its true we do, but its not helping all the people who can't get tested, who are being asked to travel hundreds of miles to get a test and who have to wait days for the test results to come back. The end of October for the number of tests to match the current demand levels is to long. I do think the increased need for tests could of been forseen and we shouldn't be in a situation of rationing tests still.
Beach  Male  Dorset
17-Sep-2020 11:07 Message #4792534
Hot off the press ... (You couldn't make this stuff up).

CDC Boss Predicts Wide Rollout of Vaccine by Mid-2021

Yesterday, Dr. Robert Redfield, American Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director, was speaking at a Senate sub committee and he clearly and carefully stated that a coronavirus vaccine wouldn't be widely available until the second quarter of next year. (Or possibly the third quarter in the fall).

In other words - between 6 and 9 months sometime in the future.

However, last night at about 2am, I was listening to a live President Trump press conference courtesy of Fox News Talk radio station and Trump was "correcting" his CDC chief by claiming, "Robert was mistaken" ... "He was confused" ...

So let's recap.

What did the CDC boss really say?

"In Senate testimony on Wednesday, Redfield predicted a vaccine would be in “very limited supply” by the end of the year even if approved by October, adding that it would only be “generally available” by the “late second quarter, third quarter 2021.”"

However; Trump was having none of it and doing his usual thing by stating that "These perfect companies will have the best vaccines the world has ever seen and they will be distributing them instantly, like tomorrow morning, the absolute first moment the vaccine was available." *I'm paraphrasing but you get the general idea.

He then went a bit mental weaving some great expectation about the vaccine right into a pitch connected with the election eluding to the fact that it would be thanks to him that, by the end of the year, maybe sooner, maybe just after the election in November, that everybody was going to be talking about these great safe and fast vaccines, which were going to be very very very safe and very very fast fast in reaching the U.S population.

Pressed on answering who and which groups might get the vaccine first, Trump refused to accept or answer to confirm that first responders and people with underlying conditions might be at the front of the line and when quizzed directly with a "When will the general public get the vaccine?" (with the estimate being 6 - 9 months away in the late summer or fall of next year according to the CDC chief), Trump categorically denied that suggestion by stating, "No. The vaccine will be available immediately, tomorrow, instantly, etc" ... again adding that the CDC chief was mistaken or confused.

Watch the entertaining but incredulous press conference here.

Pure Trump. Pure bull shi++ing at its best.

Just watch his mind working ... trying to say but not quite say. Infer but not quite infer. Stretching the concept of delivering a vaccine "now" as close as is humanly possible to some fuzzy point in the future ... lobbing in the sentence "It could be some time in October, in November ... I don't know but ... I don't think it is going to be much later than that ... etc"

Start at 36mins 55 secs to hear Trump denying what Dr Robert Redfield, (CDC chief), clearly told a Senate sub committee only hours earlier. ie That a vaccine for the "general population" that was still several months away (according to Dr Redfield), was actually going to be ready to distribute to everyone "very very soon." ... As early as October??!!
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Sep-2020 11:17 Message #4792539
"Trump has again showed his confusion to put it mildly by saying that corona virus has a herd mentality"

Well to my uneducated mind what we see in the figures is herd immunity happening.
Massively increased testing is showing many more positive cases, yet hospitalisation and death rates continue to fall.
Thereby, assuming the tests are correct, the virus has infected many more people than we thought, yet is making far fewer of them seriously ill, let alone leading to their deaths.
That's what herd immunity is, isn't it?...
Beach  Male  Dorset
17-Sep-2020 11:21 Message #4792541
Keep up, Hiero.

The phrase was herd mentality not herd immunity.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Sep-2020 11:24 Message #4792542
Oh you say potato, I say potato....
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
17-Sep-2020 16:32 Message #4792562
Aww ..... how sweet that you love me Beach. Twilight zone can do that. You can live in whatever zone you like. cough cough :)

Trump speaks American. And sorry you sound like the media bashing mob who make a habit of this. Trumps Nobel Prize nomination doesn't compute in their brain, only the usual name calling and sicko stuff.
Beach  Male  Dorset
17-Sep-2020 18:30 Message #4792567
It's a pity that Trump feels such need for urgency in promising the earth in such an infantile way because he might, otherwise, be the man to energize the biggest vaccine program in history using his own military.

That's the disappointment.

The guy has no filter or off button when it comes to either shooting his mouth off or telling porky pies.

I concede though; if there was a safe vaccine available, I bet he'd do an incredible job of getting it distributed.

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