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Russia and China

We seem to be picking a lot fights

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Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
17-Jul-2020 10:23 Message #4787078
Not that I think the government wrong to stop huawei from being further involved in communications networks than they are already, I've long been uneasy about China and distrusted its so called opening up. China's been notorious for its theft of intellectual property, hacking and general disregard of normal practice in the West, as well as its appalling human rights abuses.

Russia has been accused of interfering in elections, misinformation and hacking for years, now of tryiing to steal research into CV19 vaccines.

But why is all this comming out all of a sudden when its been brewing for years? Is it because the intelligence select commitee has decided again Chris Grayling as its leader and instead picked someone who's not a place man and may actually publish the long awaited Russia report?

Is it at the behest of the US that we're chucking China out of 5G? I don't think it is as there are plenty of other countries that are taking the same stand

I'm surprised that the government is choosing to pick fights, especially with China when its been hoping for increased post Brexit trade with them?

Russia we know is a disruptive actor on the world stage and is cosying up to China again.

Interesting times...
Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
17-Jul-2020 10:35 Message #4787081
Now is a good a time as any to show some guts and make it clear that appeasement is not on the agenda to anyone no matter who they are. If Brexit was about being independent and show what we are made of.
Our security forces were more worried about Corbyn's form of appeasement than most other fears and we never want to go back to that kowtowing behaviour.

Be brave. Do what we have to do. Do what is right. Boris, stand up for the UK.
Male
fosy  Male  Leicestershire
17-Jul-2020 10:54 Message #4787085
what i,d like to know is are we, the uk, reciprocating the hacking ?

i hope so cos we need to know what our adversaries are up to...

i suspect the answer is yes.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Jul-2020 11:28 Message #4787087
I think the Hong Kong situation has been the straw that broke the camel's back and quite right too.
Added to the uncertainty (or not) about China's part in the whole covid-19 affair and the Government are understandably getting tough.
Despite all of the supposed fall-outs and arguments I'm sure trade will continue and grow.
The media love a bit of shit-stirring but I suspect much to the left's chagrin the Russia report will turn out to be a bit of a damp squib. They'll scream suppression, but it won't wash.
The report could be out as soon as Monday, I hear...
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
17-Jul-2020 19:00 Message #4787105
Of course fosy, we do intelligence gathering, they do hacking.

I'm not sure trade will continue to grow, I've read a lot of conspiracy theories about CV19 possibly being a manmade virus, some have more possible validity than others, I think people forget that scientists research diseases and mess about with them for good reasons as well as bad. If CV19 was manmade and escaped from a lab in Wuhan then its more likely because of the reportedly lax security at the lab, than anything deliberate. As I've said before I'm very wary about China and its activities and have been for a long time, whilst I doubt most governments could keep anything secret for years even decades, I think China is one of the few that has the sort of state apparatus that could.

The Russia report maybe a lot of hot air, ut it should of been published months ago and considering the allegations it was looking into not publishing it looks suspicious in itself. I don't think its just people on the political left that will '...scream supression..', but quite a few on the political right too, it is no ones interest for a foreign actor to interfere in our electioral processes, especially one like Russia. I'd like to see more moves against all the dirty Russian money in the financial sectors, I think this is something where we could take an international lead, London shouldn't be known as the the best place in the world to clean dirty money.
Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
17-Jul-2020 22:44 Message #4787118
But which side they take, some say Corbyn, some say Boris.
Russia like Brexit, so did they help Boris?
You think money should not be cleaned, you want dirty money?
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
17-Jul-2020 23:55 Message #4787131
Everybody spies on everyone. Pot calling kettle black. US spies on Germany, they were accused of it sometime back. Russia are masters at the game, have been since the Cold War, when they infiltrated the US and stole plans for a nuclear missile prototype, and weren't discovered for years. China refuses to stay in any accommodation arranged by the US in America, they know it will be bugged.

All we can do is accuse and prove nothing, at least get some evidence. Otherwise its just accusations, allegedly this and allegedly that.
Male
brisinger  Male  Lancashire
18-Jul-2020 02:06 Message #4787134
I like the way you put our 'hackers' as intelligence gathering, yet they do hacking. MI5 is well known in the computer programming industry for recruiting 'hackers' (crackers). It's rather ironic that we end up turning some of our best criminals to work in the security sector.
Incidentally the term 'hackers' is used incorrectly in the press. The correct term is a "cracker". A hacker is a skilled computer programmer who often is employed to track down and fix exploits and bugs in software whereas a "cracker" actively breaks into a computer system and often inserts what's known as a 'bot' to infiltrate the internet. Bots are a style of programming specifically designed often to create Denial of Service attacks
A security hacker is someone who is employed to explore for methods for breaching defences and exploiting weaknesses in a computer system or network in order to make a fix.
It is well know in the computer programming sector that the US security services got Microsoft to write a "back door" for them. On approaching Linus Torvalds to do the same with the Linux Kernel he flatly refused. There's an excellent interview on TED Talks about it.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire
18-Jul-2020 08:12 Message #4787142
China has a strange way of measuring miles, my health band and it's 'phone app frequently underplay distance, 9 miles on that often feels like 11 miles and on my mates Garmin counter 9 Chinese miles becomes nearer 12 US miles - or maybe it's the yanks overplaying the distances? Wish one of them would get their acts together then my feet won't hurt so much!
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
18-Jul-2020 10:28 Message #4787153
Turning a poacher into a game keeper is one of the better ideas, these people have skills and why not use them, have them inside the tent, peeing out rather than outside the tent peeing in, as it were?
Male
Pboro Trevor  Male  Cambridgeshire
18-Jul-2020 11:21 Message #4787157
It also does not help that a huge number of items on eBay and Amazon come from those countries.

We should start checking more before we buy from those countries. This would hurt more than national measures.

Trevor
Male
Maglorian  Male  North Yorkshire
18-Jul-2020 23:15 Message #4787195
All this week, the BBC have been flooding the news with old stories of Russian espionage, to desensitise the public... So that when the official Russia Report is published, the public won't care about Russian Oligarchs bank rolling the Tory 2019 general election campaign.

Nasty China! Sneaky Ruskies! Repeat! Repeat!

It's somewhat pitying to watch and read, easily led people sheeple, dancing to the propaganda pipers call. While 45000 vulnerable people and counting, die horrifically by neglect because of money before life policies. Salivating over half price meal deals and multi property owners stamp duty freebies. What a selfish way Thatcherism heralded.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
18-Jul-2020 23:27 Message #4787198
.Maglorian, AvitoDauphine, Wandering4Fun, Witheflow, withgoodintent, to use just a few of your names, you cannot escape your neo liberal cabal by pretending to have socialist ideals and pretending to care about others and pretending to want to help the poor. You really nasty piece of work.
You mock council house tenants? You laugh at littered communities? You make racist comments? You make snide homophobic remarks? You hate seeing the poor being helped and attack every thread where caring people try to help others. The use of fake images, verbal insults to “non-agreers”, multi profiles including a female one with access to the “ladies” room.
The only contribution you have made to the forum is reviving all the excellent votes which float around whenever one of the abhorrent trolls makes an unwelcome appearance.


Steady on and be careful not to join in any conversations. We would be disappointed if you didnt come here to spread your own brand of misery and whining while not forgetting to insult all the other members of this site who have taken the trouble to give sensible posts on the subject.
pitying
easily led
sheeple
pipers call
salivating
Thatcherism Are you sure you and Michael aren't brothers?
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
18-Jul-2020 23:29 Message #4787199
wonderoushen Female Gwynedd
18-Jul-2020 10:28 new Message #4787153
Turning a poacher into a game keeper is one of the better ideas, these people have skills and why not use them, have them inside the tent, peeing out rather than outside the tent peeing in, as it were?


That is very true.

Male
Kimjongun  Male  South Yorkshire
19-Jul-2020 01:13 Message #4787201
Why would someone pee in tent?
How come Mags know everything?
Mags, Wiseman is always aware of own limitations.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
19-Jul-2020 10:37 Message #4787239
Often when you buy from a British company you're buying foreign as so many companies import stuff and label it as their own brand when its made in countries that have sweatshops, slave labour and appalling environmental standards. Its also a fact of global trade that you buy something and its full of components from around the world, we seem to have next to no control over this, its like when you go to buy a washing machine or something, there are loads of different branded boxes covering the same basic machine.
Male
persona_non_grata  Male  North London
19-Jul-2020 10:48 Message #4787244
I was recently reading about spectacle manufacturers. Wherever you buy from nearly all lenses are made by one French company and almost all frames are made by an Italian company although the names escape me at the moment.
Electronic components are likely to be very similar and knocked out in their millions and very unlikely any of them will come from the U.K.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
19-Jul-2020 16:26 Message #4787276
Huawei. The fly in the ointment. Is, the largest telecom equipment maker in the world, they have thousands of patents. And they are going to be hard for the US to o crack. But the competition was just too much to handle, so, we must destroy. Whether the 'espionage' claims, and bad mouthing of it's government and anything Chinese is true or not is irrelevant, there's far worse goes on the world over, it's the competition that irks America. The rise of Chiina.

I see Boris has fallen in line, Uncle Sam must be touch forelock and bow to. Germany is not out. Mrs Merkell is refusing to bar Huawei from building Germany's 5G network, so far. Good for her. She wisely thinks trying to contain China will carry more risks than rewards. I heartily agree with her. A far better response to this rivalry. China is in a strong position, and they are too clever. Plus they account for at least 18% of world market capitalisation, around 14% of world exports, and are a dominant economic force in Asia's emerging economies. Not all countries are hostile towards them, America is creating a possibly hazardous divide.

Without Huawei we could be put back 2-3 years down the line with 5G.
Female
Andromeda  Female  Berkshire
19-Jul-2020 16:34 Message #4787277
I don't think we should be frightened of China. We must do what we feel is right whatever that may be and I hope our government has the courage to do so.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
19-Jul-2020 16:45 Message #4787279
It would be wise not to antagonise a rising power. Especially a communist one, in possible alliance with Russia. It would be stupid not to fear anything, arrogance and pride could make you very unpopular with the world.
Female
Andromeda  Female  Berkshire
19-Jul-2020 17:02 Message #4787282
I would hate to see Britain running scared of any world power even a communist one.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
19-Jul-2020 17:12 Message #4787283
It's gone from fear to running scared! And Britain is really small fry. We do what the American do. I was talking about being clever, wise, compromise. We don't want any escalation in hostilities, because it could end up creating a divide in the world order. And I think China has the advantage.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
20-Jul-2020 12:09 Message #4787340
In some ways I find all this stuff about 5G a bit of a flap when so many areas have such poor mobile receptivity, theres lots of places where you can barely get 2 or 3G, surely it would be better to get the whole country up to the same conectivity level? I would of thought that would of been part of Boris's famous levelling up stratagy, but obviously not.

What impact will not having 5G for another couple of years have? The only one I can imediately think of is phone manufacturers won't be able to sell so many new phones to people.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
21-Jul-2020 08:04 Message #4787376
Nasty China! Sneaky Ruskies! Repeat! Repeat!

I very high percentage of British people believe precisely that. Those countries themselves are to blame for years of secrecy and aggression towards others. The abhorrent way they have treated their own people over the years. Their wish for power and dominance.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
22-Jul-2020 10:49 Message #4787429
Priceless.

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