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Masks to be made compulsory in shops

At last, I can go to Lidl as well as trade safer

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Beach  Male  Dorset
14-Jul-2020 08:27 Message #4786794
To me, it makes all the difference. A law to force others to be respectful. A law that forces people to take account of other people. A law that will lesson the odds of a killer virus hanging, suspended, in the air and, not only will I now feel able to shop in a supermarket (or anywhere), but it means I can expect my own customers to be wearing a mask or a face covering when they walk down the path to conduct business with me.

Hallelujah and I was going to say, “About time!” but, while it is good news, for some inexplicable reason, our PM has decided to delay the enforcing of such a law for 10 days. (No. I don’t understand that either – and neither do radio presenters and journalists.)

But, enforced it will be … by the police … and with a £100 fine … though in Northern Ireland, they have a £2,500 fine or a 6 month prison term awaiting you if you flaunt the law.

Thing is; this is a measure that will instil confidence in thousands / millions of folk just like me and that will make a huge difference and enable us to finally increase our GDP and get back on our feet economically.
Pboro Trevor  Male  Cambridgeshire
14-Jul-2020 08:59 Message #4786795
I am glad it is compulsory. Too many measures have been open to a loose interpretation - virtually disregarded.

wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
14-Jul-2020 09:06 Message #4786796
Apparently its because they want to stop people being caught out with no masks available. I agree the date for later in the month seems to make no clinical sense, but shops do need to get their stocks of masks up.

I must admit to being rather confused about mask wearing, how long do masks last, when using a homemade one how long should I wear it for before washing?
Sea  Female  Essex
14-Jul-2020 09:11 Message #4786797
I agree Beach, to me though it is way too late and why wait ten days??? Just mad. This should have been the very first measure to put in place, way before lockdown, when all the panic buyers around crowding together with over laden trollies in supermarkets. They were a long time queued up close to each other, so perfect conditions for virus spreading. It should have been brought in on public transport back then also. There have been so many public transport drivers who have died from the virus. And anybody arriving at an airport etc. although they should all have been shut. I do hope this measure is enforced though, as at the moment in many areas, cases are on the rise.
Seasons-Greetings  Male  Essex
14-Jul-2020 09:15 Message #4786798
It is about time, but it should have been mandatory at the start, I've noticed that general use has continually plummeted as lockdown has eased.
I was out and about in the shopping centre, into shops etc. yesterday and I'd say 95%+ were not wearing any type of mask/face covering, which makes a mockery of those who are being socially responsible by wearing one. Ditto complying with the marked one way systems, arrow marked walkways and signage put there to keep people a safe distance apart.
Presumably the shopping centre security staff will be able to stop people entering the enclosed area of a mall and presumably it will be down to shop staff to prevent people entering a shop if not in enclosed area, if they're not wearing a face covering (incidentally none of the security staff and almost none of the shop staff were wearing a mask either) but they have no powers to enforce the restriction and there is absolutely no way the local police will have the resources to attend every incident that is bound to kick off.
I've seen loads of passengers on buses without masks. So why aren't they being denied boarding or are they just taking their masks off once onboard.
I can just see the arguments with people claiming they have this or that medical reason for not wearing a mask, and being allowed to enter as it won't be possible to prove it either way.

Rather than instill confidence I think it will have an adverse effect dissuading people from visiting the shops and shopping centres, and cause a lot of friction when people ask why others aren't wearing masks.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
14-Jul-2020 09:38 Message #4786800
Well I think it's ridiculous and it will deter me from visiting shops unless I really have to.
As I pointed out on the other thread, I think it's asking for trouble expecting people to wear masks for long periods of time. They are not comfortable to wear and inevitably you will have people putting them on and taking them off repeatedly during a shopping trip.
To my mind that's the worst thing ever as they touch their eyes and mouth grappling with the mask, using dirty hands that have touched all manner of surfaces in the meantime.
Expecting people who have no idea how to use PPE correctly to do so is folly, you only have to watch them in the supermarket queue....
Seasons-Greetings  Male  Essex
14-Jul-2020 09:52 Message #4786803
But then in theory if everyone followed the same regime, hands shouldn't be "dirty" as all shops also have hand gel dispensers and/or sanitisation stations where you should be cleaning your hands regularly each time you enter or leave a shop.
But if these new regs deter the selfish from venturing out, then, happy days for the rest of the those who give a 4x and want to comply and as a bonus there should be less queuing and more space to move around.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
14-Jul-2020 09:57 Message #4786804
People wear latex gloves because they think it stops the spread, then grab the mask whilst wearing the gloves they've been handling "infected" stuff with..... theory is great...
Beach  Male  Dorset
14-Jul-2020 10:02 Message #4786805
Absolutely right, Trevor. Wishy washy policy helps nobody and is immediately open to abuse or misinterpretation whereas a stark, bold dictate from on high, at least, guides, (and probably reassures), folk in a much more robust fashion. And it shouldn't be seen as less macho or subserviant to take orders or follow laws - (as the U.S appears to have viewed it), not if it saves your life or makes your environment a place to navigate.
How long do masks last?" Read the label. It'll depend upon what type it is though as a rule of thumb, a basic clinical mask might serve you for one use but they are cheap and disposable so it should never be an issue ... although, if, after an hour or 90 minutes it got moist or saturated due to ... whatever ... it should, probably, be responsibly disposed of.

My FFP3 masks are dearer at £5 - £15 each and, in a clinical situation, might be disposed of after one use with each patient or one 3D printing session OR be contracted out to be cleansed / recycled like some American hospitals currently do BUT I use mine once a fortnight or once a month, (currently), solely for visiting the clinic, (though , previously, Boots), and it gets left alone for a further 2 weeks / 4 weeks before I use it again. (I wear a Union Jack snood over the top anyway so, even when finished as a FFP3 mask, it would still serve as a tight fitting barrier underneath the snood, at least helping to protect others from my own exhaled breath though, by rotating my supply, none of my masks are, (or feel), remotely past their sell by date yet. :-)

Put it this way. I had half a dozen on rotation (and treated them like scarce gold dust at that time), and 4 out of the 6 had only been worn once for a maximum of 15 minutes a time.

No. Tell a lie. I wore one particular FFP3 mask but had to wait for 40 minutes outside of Boots one time and afterwards, I was acutely aware that I had probably been a bit stressed or been breathing heavily because it, subsequently, felt less pleasing when donned and used for a period of time a 2nd time.

I have Fosy to thank for my latest, shifted, policy.

ie A couple of days ago, after he confirmed he used FFP2 masks, (at about £4 each), I checked on Amazon and found 2 such FFP2 masks for a fiver - so £2.50 per mask - for a mask that works both ways, (protecting you 95% aganst virus particles and, obviously, also protecting those around you), so I'm now including those masks in my regime - planning to buy them frequently rather than just relying on FFP3 masks I have been reusing / rotating this last 6 months.

Thing is; it was all a bit Mad Max back in lockdown and so some, (legitimate), fear that buying new high quality masks might not be easy, was a reason for treating them so preciously.

BTW. A face covering can go in the washing machine or be hand washed daily or similar to washing a pair of socks, Hen! Use hot water above 45C ... or I do anyway.
Think about it Sea. Just imagine we were all socially switched on to the idea of wearing cheap masks from March 2020 onwards. There might have been no need for lock down at all. Hindsight, I know, but we'll know next time ... just like those Asian countries that had already suffred with SARS, etc.
Disclaimer. I'm no expert and some of my comments, practices or suggestions might NOT be advisable or sensible for others and I'm not suggesting they could be. All I know is that I've been able to feel in control of events in my own life and garnered a sense of structure or intent that has given me a certain peace of mind - a certain security.

This new mask law, due in on the 24th July, will completely change my perception of the world for the better. And I hope it changes yours too. :-)
Beach  Male  Dorset
14-Jul-2020 10:26 Message #4786807
" ... you will have people putting them on and taking them off repeatedly during a shopping trip.
To my mind that's the worst thing ever as they touch their eyes and mouth grappling with the mask, using dirty hands that have touched all manner of surfaces in the meantime."
Comments Hiero.

Such people already spread the virus, H, via their inability to grasp the seriousness of events.

Thing is; with everyone wearing masks, there will be less volume of surfaces dangerous to the touch because we will be containing the virus, (in shops, anyway), reducing its contact with the air and surfaces it may have found itself upon.

The collateral damage will shift from (some) innocent folk contracting the virus from (some) irresponsible folk ... to Darwin Award Winners contracting the virus from their own masks ... and, in this dog eat dog world of ours, I think the balance would have shifted appropriately ... with less likely victims as a result overall even due to secondary infection from such incidents. That's my thinking anyway, even with the increased volumes of people who will now include a visit to a shop.

Treat donning / removing a mask just as you would treat social distancing or washing your hands.
eurostar  Female  Merseyside
14-Jul-2020 10:31 Message #4786809
Omg it's going to be chaos, staff will be abused and shouted at, are staff going to wear them, bus drivers don't, 12 deaths yesterday so we, re wearing masks? It's a bloody farce we were having over 800 deaths a day and no mask, more people going out and death rate dropping but wear a mask? It's not logical.
Beach  Male  Dorset
14-Jul-2020 10:33 Message #4786810
"People wear latex gloves because they think it stops the spread, then grab the mask whilst wearing the gloves they've been handling "infected" stuff with..... theory is great... "

Do you witness these events, Hiero? Can you provide details of the percentages of people acting in the way you describe? Are there university experiments or pundits somewhere actually investigating and pursuing the behaviors you cite?

If so, please share such information right here with us.
I think most folk are rather fond of their mortality and already know what they should and should not be doing.
Beach  Male  Dorset
14-Jul-2020 10:36 Message #4786811
"It's a bloody farce we were having over 800 deaths a day and no mask, more people going out and death rate dropping but wear a mask? It's not logical."

Are you blaming people for this farce, Euro, or are you blaming the government?
persona_non_grata  Male  North London
14-Jul-2020 10:40 Message #4786812
I think it's a good regulation which can only do more good than harm even if not resoundingly successful. Different nations react in different ways so each government has to choose the right timing and also the right compromises of mandatory rules and guidelines.
You would think that with the lives of ourselves, families, loved ones and those around us at stake everyone would be on the same side .. survival .. but that is not the case and reading posts and looking around will see plenty of people wanting to ignore, fight and even disrupt safety procedures.
Outside a lot of shops, garden centres and other venues there have been free hand washing equipment which has been completely ignored .. how can that make any sense? Yet if one person uses it then the following person tends to do so too .. are the British a bit too reserved?
Anyway I think the mandatory wearing of masks in certain places is a good idea and everyone being told to do it leaves those who are "a bit shy" or "feel a bit daft" able to don their masks along with others and those who are "too independent cos they don't want to" will hopefully be embarrassed into compliance.

usuallyLaura  Female  Devon
14-Jul-2020 10:51 Message #4786814
so, 4 months after lock down started, not going to be enforced by the shop but by the police...
is the shop manager expected to phone 999 when a shopper not wearing a mask is seen queueing to enter the shop ?

half the people wearing them currently don't know how to put them on properly, they struggle to cover their nose as well as their mouth, they fiddle with them then take them off to talk to you !

best i had on Sunday was the lady who took off her mask to lick her fingers to count her twenty pound notes before giving them to me...

it won't work / won't last, too many people say ' oh I can't wear one because ' - autistic child, breathing problems, other hidden problems/disabilities, too hot, claustiphobic etc. etc. etc.

so more people will shop online and the shops only reopened a couple of weeks ago.
eurostar  Female  Merseyside
14-Jul-2020 11:00 Message #4786816
Beach I blame if blame is the right word people, the government isn't living round here, people throughout the whole of this have passed it to people, and always blamed the government, jeez why can't people just take responsibility for themselves and loved ones, this has been going on for four months, but still people cannot take responsibility for their own safety, I don't need the government to tell me to wear a mask, I, ve worn one for four months, the same as hand sanister not getting close to people etc people!!!!
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
14-Jul-2020 11:11 Message #4786820
Beach I have indeed witnessed such incidents, it's human nature, we all do it, I've done it myself. Whenever we are doing something that is not natural, we make mistakes, we forget.
I've seen people in the supermarket queue break the chain because they forget - they are bored, take their gloves and grab their mobile phone to play on, forgetting that the virus can be passed on with the merest touch.
It pains me to see people spending their hard earned cash on expensive PPE because they think it's keeping them safe when they don't have any idea how to use it properly.

Still it is what it is, I don't agree with this policy but will have to comply. I'm not going to spend lots of money on expensive masks, I have some cheap DIY ones in the cupboard that will suffice. If a scarf wrapped round your face is deemed adequate then why buy expensive masks? Especially when we have no idea how long this is going to be in force.
You and others seem reassured by this and that's great, I do take exception to the "selfish" label though I must say...
zodiac1  Male  Flintshire
14-Jul-2020 11:16 Message #4786821
Appaently the police wont want to get involved as they have far to much to do now with their limited staffing.

Why is it that shop staff wont be liable to wear masks, and supermarket pickers can walk among the customers mask free .?

What a stupid government we have that didnt get it together in the new year and save billions by enforcing masks as compulsory.
NoSaint  Female  Devon
14-Jul-2020 11:23 Message #4786823
If a scarf wrapped round your face is deemed adequate then why buy expensive masks?

There is no need for expensive masks if you intention is to comply with the law or do your best not to breath over other people. Any face covering will do.
The expensive masks are for those with concerns for what they are breathing in so these masks will perform the tasks of self protection and the protection of others.
Beach  Male  Dorset
14-Jul-2020 11:37 Message #4786826
Thanks for the additional contributions. :)

I guess I need to reflect on my own opening post.

To me, it makes all the difference. A law to force others to be respectful. A law that forces people to take account of other people. A law that will lesson the odds of a killer virus hanging, suspended, in the air.

That's it ... That's how the new law makes me feel ...

Will it be enforced?

Well, at least it is a law rather than a recommendation or mere 'obligatory' request. (As seen on the buses and trains).

I acknowledge every point raised ... and am sorry for the "selfish" comment, Hiero, particularly if you thought I was speaking to you personally ...

Just saying ... this WILL make a difference to me ... even by just making it easier to be able to engage with my own, occasional, biz related customer.
Beach  Male  Dorset
14-Jul-2020 11:42 Message #4786827
Actually, there was no prior "selfish" comment in this original post, Hiero, (Was there??) ... unless my Firefox search feature is letting me down ... though I do recall using that phrase on another thread so will hold my hands up nonetheless. :-)
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
14-Jul-2020 11:49 Message #4786829
It was more of a general moan really Beach, not aimed specifically at you.
This just plays into that whole shaming thing - why didn't you clap for the NHS?, why aren't you wearing a mask? and on it goes.
There's little point dissecting this subject further but I don't quite understand if you are wearing a top of the range, "nothing gets through this bugger" type mask, why you don't feel safe unless everybody else is doing the same?...
eurostar  Female  Merseyside
14-Jul-2020 12:17 Message #4786833
Just a random thought to throw in, people don't wear condoms when they should, even with the killer aids epidemic years ago, or to stop unwanted pregnancy. Mask? Condom? People make excuses lol
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
14-Jul-2020 12:27 Message #4786834
Well I think I will be having sex more than visiting shops if this rule stays for too long, and I rarely have sex... lol
Maybe a condom over my head would help....
Beach  Male  Dorset
14-Jul-2020 12:29 Message #4786835
Understood, Hiero.
No. I don't, personally, care what type of mask others wear as long as a mask, (even a basic face covering), inhibits the small but potential threat that airborne particles represent.

And that's the thing ... and the dilemma.

The fact that the virus may (or may not) evaporate outside but may remain "active" in the air INSIDE a room, (from 1 - 3 hours), is a piece of science that now seems to be established. However; No. we still don't know whether one particle suspended particle, 1000 suspended particles or a million suspended particles might constitute a threat to human health or life.

A layman's explanation follows

The virus, (singular), enters the body, makes its way to the lungs, hooks itself right into a cell and then hijacks / kidnaps the cell into making that cell make more virus particles ... before letting go ... having entirely stolen all useful genetic material and leaving the biological mechanics of that cell a husk ... dead! (I'm presuming that lung scarring relates to aspects of this principle although I also know that it is an element inside the cell that the virus actually reacts with - though I'm using the word "cell" just for expediancy. (A doctor or nurse can give you the real, complicated, account of events, I'm sure.)

Anyway. It repeats the exercise with neighbouring cells while also ejecting further viruses to escape back out into the air.

THUS ... this business regarding inhibiting the virus with a mask, either as a defence against big globules of virus sneezed or coughed out within a 6ft range of a sufferer OR with regards to tiny, smaller than typical microscopic viral, particles with some POTENTIAL to infect ... well, the former is known and recognised as the main way the virus spreads BUT the latter remains an unanswered question as far as how many or how much virus material needs to be suspended in the air to be inhaled to contaminate. (And, obviously, other factors may play a part. ie Is a room ventilated? Is a room full of other people? Is a room using a fan or an air conditioner?)

With all of the above very loosely explained, wearing masks could be a really, really big deal! And if we ponder the fate of some other nations, we, (unless I am imagining it), are seeing that certain mask wearing nations are coping better than other none mask wearing nations.

One thing must be clear though.

In a matter of recent days, both our PM and the U.S President have been seen wearing masks for the first time.

True. Perhaps they should both have been setting an example earlier but, at least, today they are.
As to NOT blaming the government, Euro?

Really? Are you saying that we, as a nation, should have already had the whole thing worked out ourselves?

Nah. WE, as a nation, need guidance, governance, leadership, clear communication, robust laws and up to the minute, accurate information. Only then, with those elements in place, might we enable ourselves to act appropriately.

Without such components, (and more), being in place, we'd be confused, conflicted, ill informed and adrift with no clear path or direction.

And that latter situation is EXACTLY what the UK has experienced so far during this pandemic.

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