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Are you living ... But not alive?

How has the EASING OF LOCKDOWN met your approval? Is the opening of pubs right?

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Male
Beach  Male  Dorset
3-Jul-2020 01:48 Message #4785515
With regard to the easing of certain government dictates related to social distancing and public health, do you view the opening of pubs and bars and similar establishments, square in the middle of a global viral pandemic, as a particularly sensible or prudent thing to pursue especially when the UK's world beating app and track and trace initiative is already 5 weeks overdue and still viewed, nationally and internationally, as neither 100% in place or actually fit for purpose?

Sure. Yes. The idea of being able to localise and pin down viral hotspots sounds great on paper but ... well ... in the Leicester example, it is crystal clear that there is no way government can contain or influence chavs determined to carry on partying as if there was no reason not to.

NO. It's not a BAME thing at all - IMO - not according to several Leicester residents who called into LBC radio last night admitting that they could see neighbours partying out of their windows ... with men and women as old as 50 entering premises where the smell of cannabis was permeating the air and other callers phoning in to state, quite catagorically, that, by day, people in the High Street were NOT REMOTELY taking social distancing seriously.

A far cry from my own tight-knit communal little market town in West Dorset, (with the lowest infection rate in the UK), where EVERYONE currently appears to be entirely respectful and vigilant in abiding by social rules designed to keep all of us as safe as we possibly can be.

I fear though that the opening of pubs and clubs will soon burst the safe, comfy bubble that I have personally been living within and, God knows what is going to befall us all when the combination of some false sense of security, fuelled by alcohol, encourages folk to drop their guard. :-(

Put it this way. If yours truly succumbs to the virus, (me, in particular, being a complete role model of dotting every "I" and crossing every "T" in my own effort to being viewed as doing the right thing), I can foresee a situation where, ultimately, this thing gets ALL of us. :-(
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And just to pad out some larger global view, what are your views on the way countries like America have been promoting and encouraging the opening of their own economies by encouraging commercial entities to just get on with business, despite the virus now claiming 50,000 new infections per day.

For the love of God or your own particular deity, how in hell are we going to stop the spread of this thing if the protection or promotion of The Economy takes presidence over the health of individual human beings?

Yeah. Sure. I understand the knife edge that governments are balancing upon but ...

Oh yeah and ponder this. IF you were a government facing charges of mismanaging a viral pandemic, what better way of distancing yourself from blame could there be but to finger a population defying government policy?

This government, already stained by appalling strategic decisions that have cost 60,000 lives +, will NEVER accept full responsibility for the existing catastrophe ESPECIALLY if they can pin any further 2nd wave, (a term I don’t recognise), on the “irresponsible” nature of people like chavs in Leicester.

What I mean by that is if they can’t blame the science, the scientists that feed them info or the very virus itself, I think we, as the nation, will ultimately be blamed for “NOT ABIDING BY GOVERNMENT POLICY.”

Opening up an opportunity for folk to congregate in pubs is, I think, a cynical way of shifting blame from government policy to individuals like you and I.

It’ll be our fault , not theirs, won't it?
Female
Greencare  Female  Berkshire
3-Jul-2020 08:38 Message #4785520
It's an impossible task for any government to get right. We know everyone will have to go back to normal behaviour but when?
Even now on social media I read one group almost drunk already on the thoughts of pubs opening while just as many believe it to be too soon. I wonder if those groups also divide up into drinkers and non-drinkers?
I also read as many posts on social media saying we should have gone back weeks ago or we should never have closed anything in the first place.

It's not just a case of making rules. They have to be rules that can be adhered to. They have to be rules that won't simply bring about anarchy or disobedience. They have to be a compromise of sorts.

I've followed government guidelines from the beginning. Not very difficult. Only go out if necessary. Keep a distance of two metres from others. Wash hands religiously and vigorously when having touched anything. When guidelines have been relaxed they have all continued to make sense and the initial distancing and washing still applied.

The rules have always been perfectly clear.
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
3-Jul-2020 11:07 Message #4785532
The UK Govt seemingly had a pretty shrewd idea of the willingness of the population to stay in lockdown for any prolonged period and thus were concerned not to lockdown too early hence the advice on hand washing/distancing.

Evidently too many were unwilling/unable to follow the simple advice so we now potentially face a fresh wave of Covid.

That said pubs/restaurants are not gonna be the former social enclaves they were pre Covid so one wonders how popular they will actually be - and also how many will be folding up as outgoings exceed turnover.

If it's just about the alcohol you can buy a pint of beer in Lidl for pro rata 65p a pint versus £4 or £5 a pint down south in a pub.
Male
zodiac1  Male  Flintshire
3-Jul-2020 11:43 Message #4785540
The opening of pubs neither bothers nor interests me in the slightest, shame that a good percentage of those who wish to drink other than at home will inevitably make things worse though, even with Boris telling them to be careful and alert,....


as if.
Male
Maglorian  Male  North Yorkshire
3-Jul-2020 11:59 Message #4785542
Superb analysis of the irresponsibility of Governance Beach. Thank you for your input. BAME BLAME is LAME.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
3-Jul-2020 12:04 Message #4785543
I for one am completely punch drunk with the claims and counter-claims about this, and I suspect I'm not alone. We thought Brexit was bad, well this is on another level.
Of course, there are lots of theories about this pandemic, the situation in the states is particularly interesting where suddenly, certain states are seeing mind-blowing surges in case numbers, the like of which hasn't been seen before in this pandemic.
There's a school of thought that there's more to this than meets the eye - this weekend is 4th July when the yanks wave the stars and stripes like never before and traditionally rally around all things American including the President.
The view is if that flag waving is limited by the virus, it's Trump who is likely to suffer most with an election just a few months away.
Could this be a reason for things in the states appearing to be so apparently catastrophic? This virus could sink Trump's chances of winning a second term.

I have been back at work for well over a month and think it's high time we got moving again. People seem to think pubs opening means getting drunk, well for most I don't think it does.
It actually means reconnecting with others - I know most on MSE are lone wolves, but there's a big wide world beyond these echoey rooms...
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
3-Jul-2020 12:24 Message #4785547
Theres been a very mixed response to lockdown here, some strictly abiding by it and others seemingly not at all, we've still got tourists, I guess they're second homers and some campers/caravaners. You can tell they're tourists by the general rudeness and lack of consideration with which they treat everyone else. So I guess some camp and caravan sites are breaking lockdown by being open, because they're supposed to be shut. Stopping people travelling here has been really hard, theres not the police numbers to stop every car thats not local coming across the bridges, and people have been sending their luggage by courier to their holiday homes so as they "look normal". This was in the first couple of weeks of lockdown, it just seems like a free for all now.

I don't go to pubs or resturants anyway so it won't effect me them being open, except for the way in which the virus could spread and cause another total lockdown with its attendent panic buying of basics.

I saw a clip on the news last night about how local level cricket clubs will be able to open their bars but cant play a match, because the ball might spread the virus! They interviewed a former Englad cricketer to ask what he thought, when asked what was needed from government, he said 'For them to stop being such muppets', which I thought summed it up pretty well

I do understand the economic reasons for opening things up again, but I do think its to soon and why are pubs allowed to open when schools can't, is drinking more important than education? How with schools shut will working parents be able to go back to work? Nurseries arn't open either and it seems many will never reopen, they were on a financial knife edge before lockdown and this has pushed many over the edge, so who will look after workers children? Presuming there are jobs for the parents to go back too.

I thought the government did really well in the first couple of weeks of lockdown, although I think they should of locked down sooner, but ever since its just been a total shambles, ill thought out policies, or outright lies, the left hand not knowing what the right is doing. I know its hard, any government would of struggled, but I think we could of done a lot better if more common sense was applied. One of the things that keeps coming up time and again is the lack of communication with the devolved governments and local authorities is England, this government seems to think they can ride roughshod over any one who's not in their little band.

Now we seem to have some men, mostly in America I think, refusing to wear face coverings out of some misplaced idea of macho invincability.
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
3-Jul-2020 14:27 Message #4785561
"I don't go to pubs or resturants anyway so it won't effect me them being open, except for the way in which the virus could spread and cause another total lockdown with its attendent panic buying of basics."

Irrespective of whether one uses pubs/restaurants/cafes/theatres/cinemas/gyms etc etc - those commercial establishments perform 2 valuable functions in the economy (aside from their core social function)

1 - They provide employment which generates taxes for the Treasury

2 - That employment keeps people from becoming benefit dependent and a drain on the Treasury.

With the furlough support rapidly nearing it's cessation we should have empathy with those whose incomes are almost entirely dependant on a return to paid work - as not many people would be content to be forced to live on eg the £74.25 weekly JSA benefit - which is itself contingent on claimants agreeing to apply for all jobs within a 90 minute commute from home (each way).

The leisure sector overall is largely staffed by young adults - and we know from other data that around 25% or more of that group still live with parents so the JSA payment will literally for that group be the only benefit payment for which they are eligible (obvs not all that cohort work in the leisure sector).
Female
eurostar  Female  Merseyside
3-Jul-2020 14:44 Message #4785563
I, m alive lol followed all the rules and tomorrow I will be ringing a pub twenty miles away to see if I can cycle there Sunday morning for a breakfast lol and making sure the toilets are open as well lol I can't wait to have a cooked breakfast that I haven't cooked lol its worth the forty miles lol
Female
Kallone_1  Female  Devon
3-Jul-2020 15:22 Message #4785565
The government appear to have been getting the timing right to suit the changing ability of the public to abide by the rules.
I rarely drink although I doubt I will be prosecuted for being over the limit driving a wheelchair. My local pub is serving drinks and food at the outside patio tables where there Is plenty of cover should it rain.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
3-Jul-2020 18:47 Message #4785580
Wow Boydell, I never would of thought that businesses being closed would have an economic impact!
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
3-Jul-2020 19:20 Message #4785586
Core point is without tax take there is no bottomless pit from which eg welfare benefits are paid - so everyone is affected - not just workers but also those on benefits or pensioners.
Female
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
3-Jul-2020 21:21 Message #4785609
I agree, I do believe that it is only a matter of time before we all get it, unless the vaccine gets here first. None of us had any immunity to it at the beginning.

I don't think it is any way to live, and even without the economic repercussions there is a limit to how long people can keep this up for.

I have really mixed feelings about it. One part of me wants to keep safe and takes responsibility for my own safety. The other part of me is at a time of life where I am very concious of my own mortality. That part of me wants to make whatever time I might have left count and I don't want to use up valuable time living under house arrest, whilst I still have my good health to enjoy myself to the full. No, it's not really living and I am very thankful that until now, I have always lived life to the full and I have done a lot of the things that I wanted to do.
Male
brisinger  Male  Lancashire
3-Jul-2020 21:48 Message #4785623
I think this short piece of political satire by The Juice Media was bang on: https://youtu.be/aWl7kQZHZE0

Female
RoseyCheeks  Female  Nottinghamshire
4-Jul-2020 09:53 Message #4785645
Having to register and possibly isolate from 7 days if someone else at the pub or restaurant turns out to have the virus is enough to put me off of going. It would mean a week paid at SSP rate of less than £100 rather than my usual wage. Would make it a very expensive pint or meal!
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
4-Jul-2020 10:34 Message #4785654
I never knew I was so powerful, that my not going to pubs or restaurants for reasons other than covid could cause them to collapse!
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset
4-Jul-2020 11:54 Message #4785664
Thanks for an array of interesting comments so far. x

I can't reply individually to comments at the moment because I'm currently up to my ears in NAS hard drives, attempting to set up an amazing SYNOLOGY DS216SE that will serve as a raid data back up device, a media server, a surveillance station, an audio station, a video station, a remote hard drive that I could access from anywhere in the world and, in theory, enable me to paste a link here at Midsummer. (For example, to enable any of you to view any file I choose to link - streaming from Beach Cottage.)

So - I am alittle distracted at the mo.

The opening up of pubs, etc ... but no live music. (Performing a song punches oxygen out into a room at an alarming rate - apparently)

I've found myself with a bit of a bee in my bonnet regarding the likes of billionaire Sir Paul McCartney and many of his extremely wealthy fellow musicians who have deemed to step down off their pedestals, briefly, to remind all of us how we should support musicans, performers and those in the arts all across the world at this time.

Actually, no, that's a little fib because all I've really hear is something in the bacground on LBC radio while I have been working. Something about McCartney ... hang on - let me look.

The Rolling Stones and Paul McCartney urge government to support Britain’s live music industry CNBC 2nd July.

Fair enough but how about Mr C having a word with the music and arts industry himself to encourage it to, for example, value performers rather than rip them off, usually in the small print, when they get signed up with a recording or performing contract? I can't imagine the billions in cash that boardrooms, led by their music mogul or billionaire lovey theatrical composers, (Mr Webber?), have syphoned off of the average musician or performer over the years.

And, another one of my bugbears with you, Mr Music, is that you can write one of your silly little love songs and be protected immediately with regards to the intellectual property rights over it yet I, as an inventor, former entrepreneur and manufacturer, have to pay exorbitant amounts of money, (or once did), simply to keep UK, Europoean and other patents alive annually without having any (free) way of protecting my own I.P . (I don't pay such fees anymore actually but I hope readers see my point).

Of course we are sorry for ALL performers, and the layers and layers of professions and services that rely on the whole industry but if you rich rock stars wish to preach to us about how we should support artists maybe you could start by asking you and your rich mates to start writing some cheques to the little people not lucky or fortunate enough to have become a Beatle though we know it is no good asking Jagger for support becasue he, allegedly, has been tighter than Scrooge during the whole lifetime he has spent in music.
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Isn't it chilling that today we witness the opening of so many businesses that rely, catagorically, of performing the role fo doing what humans love to be doing.

Getting all close and personal. *Socialising.
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset
4-Jul-2020 11:56 Message #4785665
Feck!! :-(

Sorry. Didn't mean to italicise that body of text ... and now the whole frigging piece is ruined.

FECK! :-/ :(
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
4-Jul-2020 15:13 Message #4785682
Hen - last night's TV news showed a pub landlord in NI saying he expects 30%/40% of pubs to close permanently due to lack of enough business to even cover the basic outgoings. Whilst having covered areas outside may be OK in summer - even down south it's pretty chilly outside in the evenings by September.

Many catering businesses (and indeed others as 40% of small businesses fold up in first 5 yrs) run on a knife edge even in normal times and obvs any loss of tax on profits/wages/VAT etc is multiplied when the job losses mean more people on benefits long term. In turn that may mean less cash for eg the benefit system/NHS and or higher taxes for the luckier cohort who manage to stay in work or have a viable business.

So when you say "I don't go to pubs or resturants anyway so it won't effect me them being open" that rather ignores the significant indirect effects of businesses being open and profitable - the old cliche "no man is an island" being relevant.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
4-Jul-2020 16:13 Message #4785693
BOYDEL. If you don't ever use pubs you are not very likely to be concerned about their profits.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
4-Jul-2020 18:02 Message #4785706
I think you mistake me, I don't go to pubs because I don't drink alcohol and get fed up of paying top dollar for nasty tasting fizz or expensive orange juice I would like to go to restaurants, if there were any round here that were any good and catered for my dietry requirements. Its nothing to do with not caring about peoples jobs, I know full well that pubs and restaurants closing will have a massive economic impact and its not something I welcome, but I'm still not going to go to a pub.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire
4-Jul-2020 19:23 Message #4785719
I think the government handling of this has been abominable, and in time when they have another expensive report into it, some of their failings will come out; government guidance has been poor in my opinion, and what has really been the saving grace of many is the common sense behaviour of many people....the keeping a safe distance, washing hands etc. was about the only reasonable advice given by the government and it's the people who have used their own common sense in following it, not anything the government has done.

Looking forward, what bothers me is the possibility now that many of us will be so aware of such virus's we will continue to live in a state of semi isolation.
Male
Maglorian  Male  North Yorkshire
31-Jul-2020 15:13 Message #4788102
"I fear though that the opening of pubs and clubs will soon burst the safe, comfy bubble that I have personally been living within and, God knows what is going to befall us all when the combination of some false sense of security, fuelled by alcohol, encourages folk to drop their guard. :-( "
Beach 2nd July 2020.

Twenty eight days on, and your fear was correct. But hey ho! We have a new mantra. Hands! Face! Space!
Male
Colonel_Blink  Male  Buckinghamshire
31-Jul-2020 16:42 Message #4788104
We are all individuals and we will have different fears and worries including our concerns about the COVID pandemic. No country has all the answers and even scientists and medical professionals are struggling to find the answer and these also differ between experts.

We cannot stay in lockdown so we know there will have to be relaxations in our rules and it will also be necessary in some areas of the country to bring in stricter rules than in other areas.

We are adults and most of us have a reasonable amount of logic and common sense which is all that is required.

Before I take a trip to my local I would want to ensure it wasn't just a bar full of drinkers. If they are serving drinks and food at reasonably spaced tables then that is fine. Logic and common sense. If I am allowed to travel overseas I would want to do my own checks on how safe any particularly country is by speaking with those who know the particular area. I would also weigh up the risks on aircraft and airports and chat to my travel insurers to make sure I'm covered. Logic and common sense again.

If I'm driving on a road where the national speed limit of 60 mph applies I do not have to maintain a speed of 60mph. I drive according to road conditions, the amount of traffic and the weather among many other things. I make an adult judgement and take responsibility for my decisions. Logic and commonsense again and again. Simple really.

Since March I have listened to those simple and easy to follow rules given by government. I'm not one of those pretending to be confused so I can ignore the rules. I am one of those who feels responsible for my own safety, the safety of my family and friend and even for strangers so I wash my hands, I keep my distance of two metres unless that is impossible. I wear my mask in shops, malls and public places which are crowded.

Why would I look for loopholes when following the very simple rules makes me and others safer? Of course I have missed hugging my family and loved ones but that doesn't prevent loving interactions in other ways.

I have been with Boris all the way on this and however I felt at the beginning due to his support of Brexit, I feel he has done well during this pandemic and I have faith in his handling of it in the future.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
31-Jul-2020 18:45 Message #4788113
I can't get my head around the logic, if there is any, of the restrictions in the NW of England, why can you still go shopping for non essentials, go to pubs, bars and restaurants and go to work, but not socialise at home even outdoors? Is there any point to such restrictions? Surely if its bad enough to have restrictions then anything non essential should stop?

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