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Why Do People?

Smoke, drink, climb mountains or mass together on beaches during a killer Pandemic?

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Beach  Male  Dorset
28-Jun-2020 00:20 Message #4784960
Hello my pretties.

Feeling refreshed from my Midsummer sabbatical, let's see how long I can last before taking another little lie down. :-)
I don’t know about you but I have always been very self aware of my own psychological mechanations starting from right back when my own idiosyncratic thoughts were first beginning to guide and mould my character as a little boy, even as a toddler. Such a cerebral feed back loop has kept me safe for over 60 years.

“Duh. OK Beach. But you’re not unique in that observation, are you? I mean; most folk might say they feel exactly the same way about how they perceive their own world, mightn’t they?”

Mmmh. Perhaps but that retort does not explain why some people see fit to abandon common sense, put themselves in danger or assume that certain activities or laws of nature cannot possibly apply to them unless some other seemingly reckless or over-riding, in-built, remit is short circuiting any sense of societal or personal responsibility.

And the more I ponder our current mutually shared global dystopia, I feel that with a global lock down phenomena denying people any structure or security representing a way of life previously guaranteed by civilisation, many folk have, perhaps unwittingly, defaulted to some dog eat dog primal act of survival that, as we are all witnessing, is stripping off the superficial layer of veneer we had previously labelled as humanity. Littering and defacating on beaches, for example.
I have discussed and presented this scenario several times over the years on these very pages by highlighting the fact that modern society and the unnatural act of humans living closely together in cities is a million years away, literally, from the Hominid troupes or more recent hunter / gathering lifestyle which first set an upright ape onto a path that would eventually lead to the complete dominion over all life on Earth.
As hinted in this thread’s pre-amble, there are many activities we pursue at our own risk and maybe it is the exotic, seductive nature of anticipation that drives our yearning to take a chance to roll some tobacco, uncork a bottle or ascend a mountain all the while being aware of the risks to our own health or mortality.

And I understand that. I understand that human vices can be very alluring.

But what drives a person or a family, perhaps with children, to ignore common sense advice NOT to congregate closely with others when there is a killer virus quite capable of turning their lungs to bone china or their blood to treacle? Without even highlighting the selfishness of, probably, infecting members of their own extended or aged family … or others.
I’ll finish this post by commenting on something absent from the world stage. Something called leadership. Meaning; in just about every globally cataclysmic Hollywood themed movie we get the White House as a location, a U.S President as a protagonist and a hero who eventually saves the day.

In real life? In real life, there is no hero to turn to, is there? And in the Americas and elsewhere, the virus is still upwardly raging. :(
I’m interested in your own observations regarding how humanity is currently coping or failing and side from Lord of the Flies style younger members of society treating the pandemic as an opportunity to one finger the Establishment and chavs and the intellectually challenged to comprehend the seriousness of things, is it really just an over 60’s thing to even worry long term?
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
28-Jun-2020 08:07 Message #4784971
"Smoke, drink, climb mountains or mass together on beaches during a killer Pandemic?"

Because they are selfish, self centred and have no thoughts for others. Having seen the Bournemouth Beach TV clips, I am gutted, esp for the NHS who have given their absolute all, for everyone who needs them.

Hope you had a good Sabbatical & are now raring to go again Beachy

V x
zodiac1  Male  Flintshire
28-Jun-2020 09:05 Message #4784973

the "me-me-me " and " I want-i want -i want " brigade.

dont we just love the , as Victoriana said , selfish, self centred load of moronic bugga,s

beam me up
eurostar  Female  Merseyside
28-Jun-2020 09:08 Message #4784974
Misguided faith in their invincibility?
Bewildered  Female  Norfolk
28-Jun-2020 09:19 Message #4784978
Because they can
because they ( most) are furloughed and have time to jaunt of during the week
because we are a society that ignores the law , elders and Gov
because there are many who believe its a big hoax to control the people
because they think what 40-50,000 lives when the flu takes a huge number each year
because they think they wont get it, and if they do they will only have mild symptoms
because they have no care for anyone only themselves but will be the first to complain when go to a doc or AE and have to wait.
Colonel_Blink  Male  Buckinghamshire
28-Jun-2020 09:24 Message #4784979
Am I guessing right that you don't drink alcohol Beach? I think that one is different from the others even if it can still kill you. Alcohol is mostly for those who are bored with little else to do or to give them the confidence to do things to prevent becoming bored.

The others are part of our inbuilt and often misplaced optimism. We know things can be fatal but assume we will be among the lucky ones.
It's the reason penalties do not deter criminals or fines deter speeders because if there is no thought of it happening to you then none of it matters. What is the mindset of a motorist who is not in a hurry but will still quite deliberately drive above the legal speed limit and when caught will curse and swear about the camera or police officer who caught him deliberately breaking the law? Mindset!

Flocking to a beach knowing it will be busy. Knowing distancing will be impossible. Selfish and stupid! Someone mentioned in this or another thread about Spanish authorities finding it easier to keep their beaches quiet. They have far more beaches and the Spanish are not sitting around waiting for one or two days of sunshine each year as they have plenty of those and the British style mass exodus from cities to the seaside doesn't happen.

I think all of those who haven't distanced. Have gathered in crowds. Have made no effort to think of others more vulnerable than themselves. Ignorant and selfish.
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire
28-Jun-2020 09:26 Message #4784980
There is a theory that extreme sports etc, are natures way of keeping genes out of the gene pool.
So if you climb mountains, or race motorcycles etc, nature is trying to get rid of the genes.

I know a family where all 3 generations have got lung disease, you would think they would have learned by now.
If I see any of them, I avoid at all costs. All that coughing and gobbing. Because they all do it, they consider it a normal habit.
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
28-Jun-2020 09:51 Message #4784988
I would say that it has a lot to do with how you assess risk. I know that I have done things in my life that some people would think risky, but before I did them, I sat down and thought about what might or could happen and planned to mitigate the risks. For example, trekking at high altitude, I read up about the symptoms of Acute Mountain Sickness, how to recognise them and what to do about it and how to acclimatise safely to avoid it. I have an altimeter and record what height I have slept at, every night, take my pulse and temperature and record any symptoms, so that I know what height I need to descend to be at my safe acclimatisation limit and I have a full record of my health to hand over to a medic should I become ill. I also take an A4 sheet with my medical history, which I keep on me with my passport. Anyway, as it happens, I have never needed it, presumably because I have been lucky and taken good care of myself. :)

And I would imagine that being in a high risk group might affect your behaviour during the current pandemic and perhaps you are likely to be more cautious. I did my own version of lockdown weeks before the government introduced their measures as I am asthmatic and I had pneumonia last year. I have hardly left the house, except to do the weekly shop and I go at a time of day when there are very few other people.

On Friday, I went amongst strangers for the first time since lockdown started. I went to RHS Wisley gardens in Surrey and I had done my own risk assessment beforehand. You need to book a time slot in advance for entry, so I knew that the numbers inside would be limited. I know that it is a vast site and it is outdoors, so it would be easy to avoid getting too close to anyone and I took my own food and drink so that I didn't need to queue for refreshments. The facilities all had hand gel stations, but I took my own aswell. I went with my friend and neighbour in my car and I know her lifestyle and that she has been avoiding other people as much as I have, so I felt safe with her. So I did go out for the first time, but don;t feel that I took any risks.

What I won't be doing any time soon, is going to the pub, or any other enclosed space with strangers or people where I don't know their lifestyle or who they might have come into contact with or who would not tell me if they were feeling unwell. What I will be doing is sharing a glass of wine in my garden at a safe distance with my sister or my friend.
I wouldn't be smoking, pandemic or not! My father died very slowly and painfully from COPD. That's one risk I won't be taking.
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
28-Jun-2020 09:58 Message #4784991
Minnie , you have a very wise head on young shoulders. You are doing all the right things. Good on you !
Andromeda  Female  Berkshire
28-Jun-2020 10:33 Message #4784999
Some people are disgusting in how thoughtless or uncaring they are.
Sea  Female  Essex
28-Jun-2020 11:26 Message #4785003
Hello Beach,
Sometimes I really cannot understand people. The worst is just leaving litter everywhere. My conscience would not allow me to do that. Perhaps because from an early age I was taught to take it home with me, unless a bin around to use. But people do because they can and clearly not taught, it is something you do not do and no heavy hand of the law coming down on them with hefty fines. Why?
As to the crowds, even if not a pandemic I would be steering clear. I would far rather walk an hour or so to a quiet cove somewhere than sit shoulder to shoulder with stangers. Clearly all very selfish and don't mind putting lives at risk. But I have always been self aware also, or perhaps I am one of lifes oddities? I know for example I have been on overnight boat trips a couple of times in New Zealand. All in the sea swimming/snorkelling and then I suddenly realise that I am the only one who has broken away from the group, doing my own thing and exploring much further afield. I haven't deliberately set out to be apart. I just suddenly look back and think, oh they are all over there. This seems to frequently be the case. Perhaps my subconscious just points me away. As to risks I guess I have taken quite a few. Many think I am mad just to venture to far away destinations on my own. I do however think carefully, like signs that say danger, deep water risk of drowning. Haven't drowned yet. But as a lone femail I have had a couple of occasions where I have had to use my wits when unwanted attention, knowing that screaming and shouting would likely put me in more danger, when nobody around to hear. Have kept calm with non commital answers until back to a place of safety and able to escape to where staying. But with the present pandemic at the moment all you can do is follow your own guidelines, which to me is plenty of fresh air but keep away from people and crowds. Leave the idiots to be idiots together. A very good post Minnie, as like you everybody should do there own risk assessment, to keep safe in any situation.
Beach  Male  Dorset
28-Jun-2020 13:05 Message #4785021
Good morning. :-)

Thank you for your warm sentiments, V, and thanks generally to all for some great, though troubling, thoughts and perspectives.

Yes Euro. It is disturbing to see the invincibility of youth unleashing quite violently in our towns and cities and it is just as unsettling to see people in their tens of thousands all competing to win a Darwin Award along our coasts.

Moronic is the right word, Zodiac. There are some great (unrelated) Darwin Award YouTube videos of dumb people attempting really imaginative ways of accidently getting themselves killed but in this instance, we have people rushing to share the infection all around our coasts and parks or, just 30 miles up the road from me, individuals actually imitating lemmings by climbing up the 200ft Durdle Door cliff and then jumping off into just feet of water.

As you state, Bewildered. Some people seem to just do as they please without any thought for anyone else and, as described above, cause a domino effect creating other problems let alone potentially further spreading the virus.

For example, two medi-vac style helicopters had to land on Durdle Door beach to take away those seriously injured cliff jumpers, forcing hundreds if not thousands of people together like sardines as the limited space of the beach had to be cleared to allow the crafts to land.

There own faults also though ... for massing there like that in the first place.

Oh. I must address Colonel Blink’s query asking, “Am I guessing right that you don't drink alcohol Beach?

I do, but only very occasionally these days though I can now see why you asked the question.

Meaning; In my original thread title, I wrote; ”Why Do People smoke, drink, climb mountains OR mass together on beaches during a killer Pandemic?” NOT “Why Do People smoke, drink, climb mountains AND mass together on beaches during a killer Pandemic?”lol

It is amusing and I hold my hands up for possibly writing an ambiguous sentence but it just goes to show how naunced and subtle a line of internet forum chat can get where, in this case, if read wrong, interpreting an “OR” as an “AND”, (as Col Blink appears to have done), my heading sounds, somehow, judgemental of people smoking and drinking IN a pandemic! Which, of course, I didn't mean!

I wonder how long we’ll all have to live like this, Minnie? (I opened up my biz for the first time in 17 weeks this week and my laptops and PCs went flying off the shelves but I’m already rethinking things and wondering if I actually want so many strangers meandering down the passage at the moment, potentially, bringing something here to the cottage. :-(

Yes, Andromeda. You sum everything up perfectly.

Hi, Sea. Agree. Keep social contact absolutely to a minimum ... this thing remains a novel, new, unknown and invisible killer.
AndyMacG  Male  the West Midlands
28-Jun-2020 13:34 Message #4785022
Jumped up, self righteous, self centred fuck-whits that don’t even have the common sense to even pick up there own rubbish that don’t know what 1 meter is let alone 2, who only have two braincells (One out and the other out looking for it) Hey but don’t worry everyone else will take responsibility or pay the price! :(

Andy Mac
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
28-Jun-2020 14:44 Message #4785025
What seems crystal clear to me is that many people are treating lockdown as nothing more than a paid holiday.
The school holidays haven't started yet but last week the beaches were full of "holidaymakers". Aren't kids supposed to be either at school or participating in remote schooling?
Aren't parents supposed to be either working from home or going into work unless they are vulnerable and should stay at home?
I had to laugh at one waste of space who was interviewed by Sky news in Dorset, she exclaimed "it looks like lockdown is over", then went on to say "well I suppose we are partly to blame because we drove down from Hertfordshire with the kids".
And that folks is the selfish braindead sort of numpty this country is producing.

I have been praising our Government for the most part, but the lack of leadership at every level is astonishing now. From the London Mayor and Police chiefs right up to the PM the complete paralysis is shocking.
The country seems on the verge of anarchy with all this BLM shit and nobody seems the least bit interested in doing anything about it...

Orson  Male  Tayside
28-Jun-2020 14:53 Message #4785027
After decades of too much freedom. Three months must seem like a lifetime!
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
28-Jun-2020 15:40 Message #4785034
I also wonder how long we can live like this. I think a lot of people have exceeded their limit by now, or getting very close to it. My guess is that was a major motivator in easing restrictions before the whole thing evolved into complete anarchy. How we have been living is not natural and it is only a matter of time before people think, to hell with it, that they would rather take a risk than live like this.

Certainly, it was anticipated that there would be a rise in mental illness as people had their normal coping strategies taken away from them. And I think the whole stay at home thing may have been over egged a bit, in order to get people to stay at home, because now they are frightened to go out and they go into major panic mode if anyone gets within a 100m of them. I can see a real rise in anxiety disorders and anyone who is a bit OCD.

An old dear got pretty narky with me on Friday. There were out door tables in the shade and there were two chairs and no table, so I went to get an odd table over by the wall and she got pretty aggressive about me getting closer than 2 m. I hadn't. But it felt very unpleasant and in retrospect, I realise that it was probably her that had moved the table so that no-one would get too close and I had thwarted her plans. I think if you are that fearful, it is probably better to stay at home.

For many people living alone it has been pretty gruelling. I have probably coped better than most as I don't really suffer much from loneliness and I like my own company. But yesterday it occurred to me that no-one has touched me since the middle of February, except for my dentist last week. Humans are social creatures and actually I feel that I am well overdue a cuddle or a hug.
persona_non_grata  Male  North London
28-Jun-2020 15:48 Message #4785036
A couple of very good posts Minnie. You are very perceptive of the people and situations around you.
zodiac1  Male  Flintshire
28-Jun-2020 16:01 Message #4785041
gave Minnie a big hug once, and very nice it was too.
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
28-Jun-2020 16:22 Message #4785042
There's quite a lot you can do to make your business safer, Mr Beach. After all, it is your own place, so you are your own elf n safety and can get your own rules.
You could restrict the number of people who are inside at any one time, or you could ask people to make an appointment. You could put a couple of socially distanced chairs outside for queuing. You could provide hand gel to be used on arrival and/or ask them to wear a face covering. You could also consider a perspex barrier to shield your working space. Just for example.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
28-Jun-2020 18:06 Message #4785052
I agree with what minnie said, we do have to take some responsibility for the risks we take and BEach all the things that Minnie has suggested are things I've seen in smaller shops. I think a lot of people need stuff, you can't get everything online, for example we've just ordered a new back door, we would of done a couple of months ago but couldn't because of lockdown, the chap from the company we're using said they've been really busy, I guess with things like doors and windows people often wait until summer to have those things done because of having to spend some time without then whist the new ones are fitted.

I'm fairly anit-social and enjoy my own company, but even I'm missing he day to day exchanges with people.

I guess a lot of those behaving carelessly are the same ones who decide to hike up mountains wearing flip flops, shorts and a t-shirt and end up having to be rescued because of cold, broken ankles and stuff like that. Most people don't think that if its warm and sunny at sea level that it can be totally different in the mountains, you can get really bad sunstroke or get lost in fog or really cold. One of the things I've noticed is that the tourists are comming back, and seemingly for longer than a day trip, they're also some of the worst when it comes to social distancing, they either don't bother at all or expect everyone else to stay away from them.

I think a lot of people from England don't realise that Wales has different rules, lockdown isn't over here and we have an outbreak of covid on the island from a chicken factory. About a third of the workers have tested positive and some won't come forward to be tested. I think some of its fear, like if they don't get a test then they don't have it. Some is to do with mistrust of authorities, theres so many weird and wonderful fake news stories doing the rounds and its a shame that people take more notice of fb than they do of mainstream media that actually has some facts and real advice. The whole Domenic Cumings thing hasn't helped either, theres a lot of people who think that if its alright for him and presumably other MP's and SPADS to do as they please then they can too.

One fo the things that strike me over and over again is how many people can't entertain themselves without going to pubs and clubs and stuff.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
28-Jun-2020 18:37 Message #4785057
" how many people can't entertain themselves without going to pubs and clubs and stuff."

It's called social interaction, I know you're not a fan but a lot of people are.
I think it's a bit much to still be dining out on the Dominic Cummings incident, are we really expected to believe the BLM riots, packed beaches, tons of litter and other pathetic events are due to what he did about 3 months ago?
People are showing themselves to be totally selfish and it's nobody's fault but their own...
Beach  Male  Dorset
28-Jun-2020 18:50 Message #4785059
Thanks for the additional comments and suggestions. And yes. I have hand sanitiser and appropriate signage next to my computer sales shelf, signage for folk to navigate down and back up the passage and the instant ability to update, improve or change all my signs and posters on the fly by using my own architect style HP Designjet printer - which can produce HUGE posters, signs and banners as required.

I've also purchased a SQUARE card reader and charging hub which takes pin, a swipe or contactless payment. (Cash is a problem but more about that later).

When a customer approaches the conservatory, there is a white circle to stand upon facing my workshop conservatory and that allows me to chat to visitors from my study. (We exchange communication via the length of the conservatory between us).

The thrill of opening back up after 17 weeks without a bean in sales or PC servicing income is short lived though. I mean; I took £300 between Wed noon till Thurs morning but it was mostly cash fresh from an ATM although £150 wasn't.

I just left it scattered to quarantine for a few days but, this morning, I shifted it and realised cash is a really big deal to deal with. :-(

In fact, the responsibility for servicing other folk's PCs, selling laptops and doing all the other things I do as part of my charming and quirky little outfit is actually losing it's shine and, instead, I am feeling spooked, jaded and mentally exhausted in the act of always, always, always, always having to either look over my shoulder, cleanse this or that a dozen times or fret about whether I did really wash my hands thouroughly enough on the occasions my mind has been segwayed into several different directions at once.

I'm considering stopping again actually. I mean; with visitors, strangers or otherwise, suddenly appearing on my doorstep I'm actually losing my bottle ... and that's despite the efforts I have made.

The truth?

My cottage actually feels a bit violated today. :-(

Looking around, there are several objects not belonging to me and the loose cash thing is really getting to me.

The liberation and easing of lockdown a little is not as easy or as liberating as it first appeared.

Rambling now. :-(


I think I'm going to change ALL of my positive, welcoming, posters and ad board content and either add something like "ALWAYS PHONE FIRST" or just start industrially cleaning my already clean little cottage and outbuildings ... just to try to rid myself of the menace.

Or I could just create a poster something along the lines of "PC Services" - and have a bright yellow promotional star on it with the cheery words, "Now with added Paranoia", :)

I might even shut up shop though I'd miss the joyously easy money for simply doing what I love ... except ...

Do I actually love doing it any more ... under these conditions. :(
Beach  Male  Dorset
28-Jun-2020 19:13 Message #4785067
I say charming and quirky because folk are often surprised to even discover that such a little cottage has such an extensive, 1940's style old school garden attached and even as recently as wednesday, someone said, "Wow. What a lovely hidden gem you are - I am so pleased to have found you" while looking down the garden as a baby fledgling gull was attempting to run and take off using my long garden path as a runway.

Somehow the magic is gone though.

AND ... without my lobby or reception area in public view anymore, nobody can see the drones, the robots, the naive West Dorset coastal art pictures or a whole wall of my local, national and international awards for innovation! :-)

No. I'm serious.

I've created that part of Beach Cottage to mimic or give the mystery of the front page of one of those ASTOUNDING STORIES comics of the 1950's and 60's and one very important aspect of what I do has more to do with inspiring wonder into visitors eyes ... a great way to break the ice and establish a relationship with a stranger real fast.

I've lost that "prop" at the moment but don't feel like attempting to shift it to the rear where the workshop / conservatory is. Even if I did, it would, rather, become imbued with the theme and flavour of our awful, awful current atmosphere
I think, if you read between the lines, you know that all I am stating / writing / saying is what you, yourselves, are experiencing to one degree to the other.

We've all had our own lives up ended one way or another and, sure, I have no real right to grumble or complain really.

It is a kind of violation though.isn't it?

I really don't usually swear much, choosing to garner a maximum shock factor by only uttering such words on the rare occasions they are actually justified but ...

Currently - my little piece of West Dorset paradise, and the life I am blessed to have here within it, is just fcukd up.

I apologise.
Beach  Male  Dorset
28-Jun-2020 19:34 Message #4785070
Ha ha. So much for coming back from my little MSE break refreshed! lol

I'm actually knackered so rather than reply individually to additional thoughtful new comments, can I just say how lovely it is to see so many friendly faces. xx
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
28-Jun-2020 19:55 Message #4785073
oh, Mr Zodiac, I don't remember that. Gissa clue. Where did that happen?

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