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Trump has finally

gone totally mad

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Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
15-Apr-2020 10:21 Message #4776751
He's decided to stop funding the WHO for about 90 days, whilst they investigate it for its failings in stopping the spread of CV19, in reality that means they will no longer be funding it, they already owe it money from what they agreed to pay it previously. I'm not saying the WHO are totally blameless, that they didn't make mistakes and wern't over cautious, but Trump seems to be using hindsight as a weapon and what was he doing in february?

The WHO isn't an insurance policy, you don't pay in and get promised that no disease will ever spring up and get out of control.

The WHO can't walk into a sovereign country and demand to see all information relating to a suspected new disease.

With a new disease, there are lots of unknowns, you can't ask whole countries to act on suspicisions and guesses.

Trump does not have total power over America, he can't unilaterally decide to end lockdown, that one of the things with having a written constitution, everyone can read it and know the extent and limits of your power.

He says there are tens of thousands of ventilators in federal stockpiles waiting to be distributed to any state that asks for them. Well why wern't they distributed in New York, why arn't they being distrubuted in New Orleans and St Louis where the virus is rife? Trump also previously stated that he wasn't going to give any help to people who were critical of him, who wern't "nice" to him, the subtext being voted democrat, yes Mr Trump that a a good way to win an election, kill your opposition! Does he really think this virus discriminates on party lines?

Where was Trump during the whole of February? In his briefing yesterday he seemed in total denial over his actions or lack of them in february, that he wasted a month when he could of done more and thousands of people would still be alive, the economy would not be suffering the way it is.

I think this is going to reinforce the Fortress America attitude thats been so prevalent and growing for some years and especially under Trumps presidency, lets hope this delusional bully is gone by next year.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
15-Apr-2020 10:28 Message #4776756
...and it was nice to see Barak Obama was supporting Joe Biden.

Another timely and hopefully positive where the dealing with this horrible virus is showing up the worst in bad leaders. Let's hope at least in USA the voting population will not have time for other issues to overshadow their judgement in the voting box.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
15-Apr-2020 10:40 Message #4776763
I actually agree with him about WHO, they do seem to have been chaotic and pro-China, but then I would argue most big organisations have been caught napping by this crisis.
I would include all governments, the NHS and public health England in that, big, cumbersome organisations don't tend to be very nimble and the bigger they are the more hoops there are to jump through.
Government in the states is a nightmare with so many levels and so many people apparently in charge - trying to co-ordinate a response must be hellish. To a lesser extent we have seen that in this country with devolved powers, nobody seems to know who is responsible for what when the shit hits the fan.
I think one outcome of this crisis, at least in the short term, will be countries looking in on themselves and becoming more insular - the EU states have largely had to sort out their own problems and co-operation between countries has been lacking.....
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
15-Apr-2020 10:44 Message #4776765
.."and it was nice to see Barak Obama was supporting Joe Biden."

And what a sad state of affairs that is, the choice for the American voters is Trump or doddery Joe Biden who at times doesn't seem to know what day of the week it is. The Democrats had a host of candidates at the start and somehow they've ended up with Biden!....
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Apr-2020 11:14 Message #4776768
Everytime I've seen the Sec. Gen. of the WHO on the telly, he's been repeating Test Test Test and isolate, over and over. Which is the one method that is succeeding in reducing the number of cases. Short of going over to America with a big stick and beating them into it, I don't see what else he can do.

It's up to the people to follow the instructions. If they don't they have only themselves to blame. Trump no doubt will come to his senses, this virus he cannot control.
Male
Colonel_Blink  Male  Buckinghamshire
15-Apr-2020 11:19 Message #4776770
I don’t think we will ever see many positive reports on Trump. He speaks without thinking first which is then picked on by social media and twitter and added to that the press hates him.

It means delving deeply into everything we read if we want to know what really is happening in the US.

I don’t think he will be judged the worst president of the USA by a long chalk. I also don’t think Biden would make a better president although he would be much more compliant in saying the right thing.
Female
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
15-Apr-2020 12:03 Message #4776778
I think some of the WHO leaders have been caught with their pants down.... and whilst I dont quite agree with the way Trump is doing things, I feel that his actions will bring a lot of WHO deficits to the surface. There's more to this than meets the eye.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Apr-2020 12:07 Message #4776779
The US economy is definitely a positive.

The WHO Sec. Gen. has been repeating over and over Test Test Test and isolate. It is the one thing that is getting the numbers down. Short of going over there with a large stick and beating them into it what more can he do. If the Americans don't follow it they have only themselves to blame.

Trump is in a situation which he cannot control, which is intangible and like fighting wearing a blindfold. And it could ruin his second term in office. Unfortunately being a native New Yorker his response will not be anywhere within the nicy mannered response expected.
Male
Wandering4fun  Male  North Yorkshire
15-Apr-2020 12:16 Message #4776786
“The WHO Sec. Gen. has been repeating over and over Test Test Test and isolate. It is the one thing that is getting the numbers down. Short of going over there with a large stick and beating them into it what more can he do.”

He should certainly have done a lot more than repeating Test, Test over and over. Yes he should most definitely have been in China shouting a lot more than that.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Apr-2020 12:30 Message #4776789
And you think more shouting would have done it? They advise, not dictate.

He didn't have to go to China. They cleared it up within 3 months and 3000 deaths. They did the Test Test Test and isolate.

He would not be welcome in the States. Besides hee could shout till he's horse, the West know best.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire
15-Apr-2020 17:53 Message #4776798
The one thing trump does whenever he opens his mouth is re-enforce the fact mankind doesn't deserve to be on this earth
Female
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
15-Apr-2020 17:53 Message #4776799
China "didnt clear it up within 3 months ", they had another 350 new cases yesterday - (sadly)
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Apr-2020 18:49 Message #4776802
Gosh where did you get that from. Worldometer says they had 89 new cases yesterday and no deaths. They have also grounded all flights coming into China because too many people coming in are bringing the virus with them.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
15-Apr-2020 18:54 Message #4776803
China wouldn't let them in, so they couldn't check it out for themselves.

As you say all big organisations are unwieldy and international ones even more so, they're not a statutory body so they can't just demand entrance to a place, I don't know of any international statutory body. I think they were caught on the hop, but so were many others.

I don't think a pandemic was ever thought of when the devolution of health powers was being thought out, it is chaotic, westminster likes to say stuff and hand out orders and stuff but never want to fund it, anything extra is expected to come out of existing budgets that barely balance anyway. Now theres this spat about whether PPE is being prioritised for England, that along with repeated calls from care homes and carers that they have been left in limbo.

Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Apr-2020 18:59 Message #4776805
I'm only going by Worldometer. If it were me I wouldn't want that virus coming back.

We let in the world and his wife. Tacit herd immunity is still experimental. Flights from NY. I think the worst place on the planet! I think we should give up. B gov. does what it wants. And where's the PPE.
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
15-Apr-2020 19:00 Message #4776806
Most Care Homes nowadays are in private ownership so it is the responsibility of the respective owners to source/provide PPE.

Obvs if they ordered too late they find there is little to be had as even the NHS buying power can only provide a fraction of the PPE needed.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
15-Apr-2020 19:02 Message #4776808
I don't think anyone wants a second wave of it, but I think we may have to get used to the idea that its here to stay for a while, maybe years.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Apr-2020 19:13 Message #4776811
I wish you'd stop making excuses for the government Boydel. They are supposed to be a "government" of the so called civilized world. They have proved to be incompetent and it has cost many their lives. I for one am not going make excuses for them, and say poor them. They are very capable of doing that for themselves.

Test kits for care homes, still waiting. Have they managed the testing for NHS staff yet. PPPE, if they cant come up with it don't make promises.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
15-Apr-2020 19:15 Message #4776814
“The WHO Sec. Gen. has been repeating over and over Test Test Test and isolate. It is the one thing that is getting the numbers down. Short of going over there with a large stick and beating them into it what more can he do.”

He should certainly have done a lot more than repeating Test, Test over and over. Yes he should most definitely have been in China shouting a lot more than that.


Agreed. The WHO have been quite ineffective and even their advice has been very general so more applicable to some countries than others.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Apr-2020 19:21 Message #4776817
You do know that Europe and US have NOT followed the advice given by the WHO. Till a multiple of deaths have occurred?

Whereas China & far east countries have. And they have the lowest number of deaths. Something in comprehension lacking here by any chance.

Now I wonder who has the greatest deaths, contagions, lack of kit, peaks beyond belief, extended lockdowns. And no way out of this in the near future. Have faith in you orators, they will be the death of you.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
15-Apr-2020 19:38 Message #4776818
I still don't get any of this - Germany is supposedly brilliant and done lots of testing, what did they do with those who tested positive and those who tested negative?
New York state has a death toll on par with the whole of the UK and the Mayor/Governor or whatever he is Cuomo has made it an order that everybody must wear a face mask when outside. Where do people get them from?
There were pictures of mass burials in New York because they cannot bury bodies quickly enough, why isn't that happening here?
Sweden hasn't locked down at all and people are swanning around like covid-19 is someone else's problem, how?....
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
15-Apr-2020 20:09 Message #4776822
So here's the point. Trump is using the WHO as a scapegoat. The elections are coming up, his prudency is in trouble (bodies & mass burials doesn't bode well for a re-run in office). He is deferring public attention and …… blaming the WHO, and, withdrawing funds to make it look extra convincing. imo
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire
15-Apr-2020 20:54 Message #4776824
Trump is a businessman, he only cares about the economy.
Whatever happens the economy is wrecked, so Trump is looking for scapegoats.

Hiero, countries are reporting deaths from C19, differently.
For instance the UK total is hospital deaths, the French total is all deaths.
In Germany apparently, C19 deaths are not recorded in the same way.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire
15-Apr-2020 23:23 Message #4776835
I agree with Boydel re: care homes, many of them are privatley run so the owners should be taking responsibility, if the government are supposed to help out they should get these companies to pay whatever they would charge the NHS for taking patients, they're quick to rip others off when it suits them.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
16-Apr-2020 07:50 Message #4776850
"Hiero, countries are reporting deaths from C19, differently.
For instance the UK total is hospital deaths, the French total is all deaths."

It's not really the way deaths are recorded that I have an issue with, although of course if govts are hiding the figures then it's not good.
It's the fact that there is apparently such a difference, when countries are generally acting in the same way.
This virus infects humans, and there isn't a great deal of evidence that one group of humans is more at risk apart from older/weaker people. I've heard certain ethnic groups are more at risk but that may be as much to do with the way these people live as anything else.
We see pictures from South Africa where social distancing ain't happening and hundreds of people are looting shops that are shut, but I've not heard that the virus is sweeping through the population and hundreds or thousands are dying, yet in Italy and Spain where people have been locked indoors for weeks they are dropping like flies.
And as for Sweden, well I don't know where to start with that one.

Nobody seems to know the answer why mass testing is the holy grail - so Germany has tested thousands, but I still don't get what they do with the people after. If the positives are isolated alone in a room by themselves for two weeks then OK I get it, but if they are simply told to stay indoors with their family then that's what we've been doing in this country isn't it?
The only difference I can see is that the person would know for sure they've got it instead of guessing based on some symptoms - you're still relying on them not mixing with others to stop the spread.
Maybe it's just crap reporting by the media, but I just don't get the big differences....

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