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Vegetarians or meat eaters ?

its making me wonder

Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
24-Mar-2020 09:11 Message #4773559
Although I am a meat eater, I am questioning whether we should be just 'gatherers' , and not 'hunter gatherers'. If the Wuhan market hadnt had all the dead/alive pangolins, chickens, pork etc hanging about in not very clean conditions , would things, with this CV19, have been different.

What do you think ?
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
24-Mar-2020 10:15 Message #4773561
I haven't got evidence to hand. I am hoping more comes out when all this is over.

I am a reluctant meat eater and annoyed with myself I don't go full blown vegetarian because I would have to cook meat if I cook for my daughter who is often too ill to cook for herself.

The issue for me is if we didn't eat pigs and beef we wouldn't have beautiful animals that actually have only been bred as food, developed over thousands of years and sadly, been subject to terrible abuse in many countries.

China particularly is know for being very adventurous with food and their culture (though I believe it is diminishing) to eat bats, and even kills sharks just for shark-fin soup, leave the poor fish dying with no means of guidance in the water to survive. That is just the tip of the iceberg.

As you may know, Brexit has brought concerns of animal welfare. It was on Countryfile last Sunday, how there is pressure to reduce hygiene standards, to enable us to import cheaper chicken from USA. People mistake the chlorination as the problem, when in fact the chlorination is to mask the unhealthy environment in which the chickens are bred. I think Panorama did something on a worker who filmed the terrible standards the food production goes through including chicken on an unwashed floor being tossed back onto the production line.

There is also the argument on transport. Should we really be transporting any foods thousands of miles when we can produce it at home?

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who claim they cannot afford to pay the price for better standards. Some just don't give a toss like eating capon, hormone swelled chickens that can barely walk. I read we sell the ones that can't walk to China!

I do think we could edge back to being gatherers. I am trying. I probably bought one pack of Angus beef in the past 12 months, have not eaten pig or lamb for a few years, and keep my eye open for end of date free range chicken. I have also stopped buying Scottish farmed salmon since they are also in unhealthy proximity and covered in fish lice.

I think some people think meat is essential but since my son is strict vegetarian and I have to cook for him unless I just leave him to eat ready meals, there are some delicious and very easy meals.

Then there is the increasing evidence that animals we have been eating for years actually have empathy when previously they were thought to just be *inanimate" beings. One farmer found, when his wife died, one of his cows kept looking at him and came close. That cow, he realised could sense his pain and now he runs therapeutic week-ends because cows actually demonstrate empathy and affection.

I really hope humanity could turn the corner, and if there was ever a bigger plan, I think our journey is to eventually develop science so we can eat and see the lion lie with the lamb.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
24-Mar-2020 10:56 Message #4773572
I don't think hunting as part of a nomadic existance is the problem but poor hygene in crowded markets and settlements.
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
24-Mar-2020 11:58 Message #4773578
Hunting for subsistence was never an issue. Hunting and gathering is fine. There is a good argument that the root of all infectious disease in humans is when we stopped being nomadic and started to stay in one place, grow crops and practice animal husbandry. Hence, European settlers almost wiping out the North Americans Indians with their pestilence. They had no history of keeping animals and had no resistance when settlers arrived.
On top of that, there are simply far too many people. In all ecosystems that become overpopulated by a single species, nature has its way of providing a cull via shortage of food and disease. I think I have posted many times over the last few years that I believe that there would be a population some time over the next 20 or so years. It is simple population dynamics.
I am not entirely surprised that this has happened, but nonetheless still shocked, as I didn't really think it would happen in my life time or that I would witness it. Even without the current state of the world, life is so precious; make the most of each day as it comes.
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
24-Mar-2020 12:35 Message #4773583
Although I am a meat eater, I am questioning whether we should be just 'gatherers' , and not 'hunter gatherers'. If the Wuhan market hadnt had all the dead/alive pangolins, chickens, pork etc hanging about in not very clean conditions , would things, with this CV19, have been different.

What do you think ?


It's too late, we are hunter/gatherers and a whole lot more. The consensus is it was a seafood market, near a biological laboratory, of some sort.

Xi Jinping has vowed, food an animal hygene is going to change. So maybe something has come out of it.

Other somethings coming out of it are I believe 50% less carbon emissions, rivers and wildlife have benefited, this must be a boon to all animal species, we are not the only ones on this planet, and if we don't do something about our habits, nature surely will. If the powers that be are not too hell bent on power games to take notice.
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
24-Mar-2020 13:43 Message #4773590
Very interesting Gilpin, doesnt it make one question our future existence.
vintagedave  Male  Northamptonshire
24-Mar-2020 18:31 Message #4773602
Having travelled around China several times, and even staying in Wuhan a few years ago I can assure you that there is very little meat hanging around in the markets there simply because the majority of the meat/fish/bird that are for sale is LIVE. The consumption of animals such as dogs is quite limited in China, but is very common in other Asian countries such as Korea.

JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
24-Mar-2020 19:05 Message #4773606
That's the point. Close proximity of inappropriate wild or/and domesticated allows transfer of mutated viral disease.
You tend to get bacterial infection from dead meat.
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
24-Mar-2020 21:01 Message #4773615
One of the TV programmes showed Wuhan market with lots of dead animals inc pangolin and chicken, which was all piled up and looked as though it was rotten. The video clips were from a private source and most of the stuff was sprinkled with bat droppings. It made me feel quite sick, and I usually have a strong stomach. Do they have Health & Safety Officers in places like China, I wonder
I have never been there and dont know too much about their ways of life.
Aely  Female  Hampshire
24-Mar-2020 21:20 Message #4773617
I have been wondering how the Vegans amongst us are going to survive the next few weeks or months. Not a green leaf to be seen last time I was in a supermarket. Not a lot of anything else either, Humans need very little animal protein supplemented by veg and fruit to easily live a healthy life but a vegetarian/vegan diet requires a much greater volume of food with a good variety of fruit, greens, nuts, pulses and grains for balanced nutrition. Growers are concerned about food production. They were concerned already with Brexit and financial reasons reducing the number of imported European workers but the virus is adding to the potential shortage.

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