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New Year

New War?

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Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
3-Jan-2020 10:42 Message #4767224
An American drone strike has killed an Iraqi general, one who was closely allied with Iran, Trump seems to have ordered this strike without warning to any of his countries allies. Qassem Suleimani not a nice man by any standards, but I wonder why the US decided to kill him and create even more instability in the region, do they have any plans other than random killings? Does this make them any better than the people they target and kill with thier technology. Is it any less a war when you don't invade with armies but lob misiles remotely and from afar? Of course being Trump he tweeted the news of the strike, insulating himself from anyone asking questions that he dosen't like on TV or Radio.

All this only happened in the last couple of hours, so some of these questions may be answered by the time I come back to the thread.
Male
fosy  Male  Leicestershire
3-Jan-2020 11:18 Message #4767228
he was an iranian general, and a while ago i watched a program about him.

it seems he pulled a lot of strings in the middle east and was a very good tactician, but dont know much else about him.

we can only wait and see if iran back up their rhetoric which will not be good for anyone.
Female
jennifer  Female  Gloucestershire
3-Jan-2020 11:22 Message #4767230
Unbelievable that a US President should Tweet about something so serious.
Male
brisinger-the-beekeeper  Male  Lancashire
3-Jan-2020 12:16 Message #4767233
Just as long as he doesn't drag us into our so called "special relationship"...
Male
Templar2013  Male  South East London
3-Jan-2020 14:38 Message #4767237
It will always be a tough decision between appeasement and lying low and taking what might be necessary action even when there is some risk of escalation. Even though I detest Trump I wouldn’t automatically say he has done the wrong thing.
Soleimani is said to have been behind a number of attacks on coalition bases in Iraq over the past few months and also supported the attack on the US Embassy in Baghdad earlier this week.

These decisions are simple when we are sat in front of the telly with our feet up.
Male
Maglorian  Male  North Yorkshire
3-Jan-2020 14:49 Message #4767240
This is a classic case of a world leader in the sh*t with impeachment proceedings; trying to gain popularity and deflect attention from his current situation, by a warmongering act designed to appeal to his tobacco chewing red neck supporters. Unfortunately the Tories will grovel and obey the chlorinated chicken kings game plan. What is really concerning is, the UK government wading in and making the country potentially vulnerable to a retaliatory strike.
Get Brexit Dumb
Male
fosy  Male  Leicestershire
3-Jan-2020 15:16 Message #4767242
"What is really concerning is, the UK government wading in and making the country potentially vulnerable to a retaliatory strike. "
wading in ??

In a statement this morning, Mr Raab said: 'We have always recognised the aggressive threat posed by the Iranian Quds force led by Qasem Soleimani.
'Following his death, we urge all parties to de-escalate.
'Further conflict is in none of our interests.'

yeh, why let the truth get in the way of a good soundbite ?
more inflammatory,inaccurate speak from the troll, inc. throwing brexit into the debate [no surprise there though]... will the trolls never learn, grow up and move on instead of remaining embittered.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
3-Jan-2020 15:23 Message #4767243
Insightful comment Maglorian.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
3-Jan-2020 15:29 Message #4767244
Lol surely we can get ATOS and universal credit in on the discussion too.
This bloke was a nasty piece of work and was plotting attacks on US personnel, apparently....
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
3-Jan-2020 15:54 Message #4767246
Spot on fosy. It seems the cabal of Maglorian, Avito, G2BW, witheflow, to name but a few, are living in a world of their own and making up their own news instead of listening to the facts.
In fact his post is the usual crock of sh** we have come to expect.
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire
3-Jan-2020 18:25 Message #4767257
I tend to agree with Mags first comment. I sincerely hope that his second comment is misguided. His 3rd comment is totally stupid.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
3-Jan-2020 18:45 Message #4767261
I don't think anyone knows what the retaliation will be as yet, but there will be some, I just hope the Iranians and thier allies don't lash out indescrimately at "the west". America is sending another 3,500 troops to the area after Trump promising to repatriate troops and stay out of foreign wars, but then a good war is always an election strategy of the desperate trying to look strog and stay in power. To be fair though this general has been on the watch list of both Obama and GW Bush and as I said in my op he wasn't a very nice man, very clever and a brilliant tactitian by all accounts, but not nice. Apparently America has gambled that without this chap all Iranian semi military networks throughout the regions will collapse without him, I just hope they're right and the world isn't being dragged ito even more conflict. There will come a point when proxy wars won't do anymore and they have to confront each other head to head and this could be it, I guess it will depend on how much support Iran will get, America too I guess?
Male
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire
3-Jan-2020 19:06 Message #4767264
I know people can make a case for America being the baddies....or us being the baddies etc....but I always think that the real baddies are the ones that need obliterating....before they cause all sorts of evil...

So Hitler, for instance....Big baddie...

then, the list can go on and on....but a few mentions...

Saddam Hussein...
Osama Bin Laden...
Gaddafi..

Now this bloke....

He posed a real threat....They felt an urgent need to get rid.....


I think we are the Goodies....as well as Bill Oddie, Tim Brooke Taylor and Graeme Garden...

Talking of which....I may just watch some of their stuff of dailymotion....Another thing I hadn't planned on doing today....
Male
Maglorian  Male  North Yorkshire
3-Jan-2020 19:08 Message #4767265
Thank you for your interjection fosy. And nice to debate with you. We appeared to start off on a wrong foot recently, with your infactuation of my sexuality and internet psychosis and assuming you know me personally. But confusing fact with assumption, is an easy pot hole to fall into on this sort of medium.

Firstly, I would like to correct your first error. Being that I began the sentance you highlighted with "What is really concerning". Which clearly isn't stating facts. Just concern and worry. So your unconnected statement "yeh, why let the truth get in the way?" is constructed on the belief that i had typed something you invented.

Secondly. While we are on the theme of "Truth". Domonic Raab, who you so obediently believe. Has a history of lies and deception.

Failing-ineptitude 1: “Easier” to get a deal after we crash out

Raab told the BBC that: “The prospect of… getting a good deal will be easier after we have left.”

This isn’t true. Under Article 50 which sets out the terms for leaving the EU, the European Council agrees the Withdrawal Agreement on the basis of qualified majority voting by the member states. The European Parliament needs to approve the deal by a simple majority but there is no need for ratification by national parliaments.

Failing ineptitude 2: "Irish backstop “undemocratic”

In the same interview, Raab said that the Irish backstop was “undemocratic’. But the backstop was agreed by an elected UK government. Even Boris Johnson, the current prime minister, signed up to the core principle in December 2017.

Failing ineptitude 3: No deal warnings during the referendum

Raab continued to his loose grip on facts in the same interview: “We made clear, those in the campaign, that we should strive for a good deal but if that wasn’t available that we should go on and make a success of Brexit.” Yet no one has found evidence that he did.

Failing ineptitude 4: He “hadn’t quite understood” how much trade went through Dover

Talking about future trade with the EU at a technology conference in 2018 Raab said: “I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.”

Dover is the key route for the UK trade to reach the continental Europe. In 2017 the port handled 2.9 million lorries amounting to 17% of the UK trade in goods.

Clearly the mans a liar and uses truth with the ease of sociopath. But you clearly fell for it fosy. And invented a narrative claiming I was arguing with your delusion.

Back to the point i was making. Raab, the sad conclusion of this pitiful debacle isn’t so much that Dominic Raab is a mendacious ideologue willing to play fast and loose with the truth to suit his agenda. Instead it’s the hope sapping realisation that, irrespective of such an unashamed lack of integrity and abysmal ministerial record, Dominic Raab is our Foreign Secretary – duping the nation towards the abyss while the citizens he claims to serve watch on helplessly.

Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
3-Jan-2020 19:11 Message #4767266
Another thread for the rabid imposter and his cabal to spread their misery and lies. Come on Magnolia lol. Who are you today? What gender are you? What is the latest fake photo you’re using?
You really are a miserable fake and a nasty troll.

But you don’t listen to me do you ?
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire
3-Jan-2020 19:55 Message #4767268
It doesn't matter whether this guy was Father Christmas or Satan incarnate, this is illegal state murder. Can you imagine if the Iranians took out one of our senior military? US imperialism is out of control. They think they can go wherever they like, interfering, bombing, torturing and helping themselves to what doesn't belong to them and Julian Assange is being tortured in prison for exposing their war crimes.

John Bolton must be wetting himself after all these years of plotting and scheming. This was planned years ago by right wing think tank Project for a New American Century. Such is the banality of evil, you can even download the .pdf of "Rebuilding America's Defenses" . It's not about defence of course, it's about money & resources. It always is. The weapons rolling off the production line have to go somewhere so if there isn't a war, they will generate one and since "build the wall" will be wearing a bit thin by now, Trump also needs to find another enemy for the pitchforks to get behind.

America is like the fat bully in the school playground, swaggering and posturing, knocking over other kids and taking their sweets with greedy sniveling sidekick Boris Johnson following behind with his hand open for a few grubby gob stoppers. As Emily Thornberry put it "Whatever hill Trump chooses to march us up..." Now we'll find out if we learned anything from Iraq

Meanwhile it's almost as if someone predicted it isn't it?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1213002681670877184
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire
3-Jan-2020 19:59 Message #4767269
https://youtu.be/16BtpSCufU0

Jeremy Corbyn Stop the War speech - 15th February 2003 - on the right side of history again.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
3-Jan-2020 21:00 Message #4767271
What is really concerning is, the UK government wading in and making the country potentially vulnerable to a retaliatory strike. "
wading in ??

In a statement this morning, Mr Raab said: 'We have always recognised the aggressive threat posed by the Iranian Quds force led by Qasem Soleimani.
'Following his death, we urge all parties to de-escalate.
'Further conflict is in none of our interests.'

yeh, why let the truth get in the way of a good soundbite ?
more inflammatory,inaccurate speak from the troll, inc. throwing brexit into the debate [no surprise there though]... will the trolls never learn, grow up and move on instead of remaining embittered.


Most of us can see the truth fosy but some will still pretend to listen to Maglorian and his ilk.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
3-Jan-2020 21:02 Message #4767272
I know people can make a case for America being the baddies....or us being the baddies etc....but I always think that the real baddies are the ones that need obliterating....before they cause all sorts of evil...

So Hitler, for instance....Big baddie...

then, the list can go on and on....but a few mentions...

Saddam Hussein...
Osama Bin Laden...
Gaddafi..

Now this bloke....

He posed a real threat....They felt an urgent need to get rid.....


I think we are the Goodies....as well as Bill Oddie, Tim Brooke Taylor and Graeme Garden...

Talking of which....I may just watch some of their stuff of dailymotion....Another thing I hadn't planned on doing today....


A good clever post using a little tongue in cheekiness to portray the seriousness of the issue.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
3-Jan-2020 21:03 Message #4767273
It will always be a tough decision between appeasement and lying low and taking what might be necessary action even when there is some risk of escalation. Even though I detest Trump I wouldn’t automatically say he has done the wrong thing.
Soleimani is said to have been behind a number of attacks on coalition bases in Iraq over the past few months and also supported the attack on the US Embassy in Baghdad earlier this week.

These decisions are simple when we are sat in front of the telly with our feet up.


Absolutely spot on sir.
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
3-Jan-2020 21:25 Message #4767281
W'hen - there is only one reason that USA has any interest in the Middle East generally and that is their oil/gas supplies. Hence the ongoing rationale is to quell any hint of insurrection to avoid interruption of the oil supply.

Without those oil revenues the ME would generally be a poor backwater of little interest to anyone except maybe an occasional tourist - noting the very hostile climate allied to a series of dictatorships.

Of course with the benefit of the oil money much of the region has come to replicate the New York skyline - albeit with a similar polarisation of living standards as in USA between the fabulously wealthy on the one hand - but with many of the 2/3rds who comprise the expat population in ME living close to the breadline. Latter being net result of the better jobs going to indigenous population and the relative dregs to expats (exceptions being expats running oil/gas industries).

All that can be said about recent events boils down to a case of when an item is in scarce supply - the guy with the biggest stuck will fight off everyone else to garner that supply.
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
3-Jan-2020 21:32 Message #4767282
H'O'W - the middle 3 of those names could also be said to have been individual lids on a series of pressure cookers - you remove the lids and all hell breaks loose.

There is a highly tribal nature to the indigenous Middle East populations - and little love lost between one tribe and another - hence rightly or wrongly there was/is a need for a series of strong dictators to act as the pressure cooker lid as it were.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire
3-Jan-2020 21:41 Message #4767283
Iran has just discovered another oil field. This has always been about resources and geo political advantage. The US has picked them off one by one, either invading overtly or destabilising them: Iraq. Lebanon, Afghanistan, Syria and now Iran. It's inconceivable that Johnson wouldn't have known about this. Such is his monstrous hubris he probably believes the public will go quietly along with him in supporting Trump but people may have longer memories than he thinks.
Male
BOYDEL  Male  Surrey
3-Jan-2020 21:43 Message #4767284
Rebecca - your first para is sadly just describing how the human race has operated for the vast majority of the history thereof - the guy with the biggest stick just takes what he wants and to hell with the consequences.

The forebears of those who for example colonised USA/Australia certainly did not cover themselves in glory when they marginalised/eradicated the original indigenous populations.

Will future historians drink a toast to mankind as the biggest predator on earth?
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
3-Jan-2020 21:56 Message #4767285
"Jeremy Corbyn Stop the War speech - 15th February 2003 - on the right side of history again."

Was that one of his highly paid appearances on Press TV?...

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