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Is christianity

The West's only hope against islam?

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Male
MikeNorthWales  Male  Conwy 4-Nov-2019 21:38 Message #4761488
Secularism isn't going to cut it when push comes to shove. What do you think?
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 4-Nov-2019 21:56 Message #4761490
We don't need to be against Islam. Those who follow the Koran closely, know it is a peaceful religion. You might be mixing Islam up with ISIS or Daish of which most Muslims fear as well.

I know many Muslim people and they are generally lovely, reasonable, kind and have great senses of humour.
Male
MikeNorthWales  Male  Conwy 4-Nov-2019 22:19 Message #4761493
JusLyn Have you read the Quran I somehow don't think you have it But I could be wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sEcBzxoMB8
Male
Beach  Male  Somerset 4-Nov-2019 22:25 Message #4761494
What a nasty, ill informed and ignorant original post.

Muslims, (followers of Islam), make up 24% of the worlds population, with Islam being practised by over 1.8 billion people. (Christians represent a further 31% of the world’s population with 2.3 billion followers.

It is ridiculous to even begin to think that just because a few Muslims or Christians do something bad or abhorrent that, perhaps, a quarter (or more) of the Earth’s whole population should be regarded as a significant threat.

And why bring up secularism?

Has some politician, somewhere, mumbled something about ensuring religion should be kept out of the affairs of state or something? Or is the O.P making some coded comment regarding atheism?

And what would that have to do with hope or something not cutting it?

Utterly bizarre thread … and I won’t be returning to it.
Male
MikeNorthWales  Male  Conwy 4-Nov-2019 22:29 Message #4761495
I think we can take it that YOU haven't read the Quran either
Male
Nigel_In_Devon  Male  Devon 4-Nov-2019 22:46 Message #4761496
Indulging in a touch of scaremongering eh Mike?
Male
MikeNorthWales  Male  Conwy 4-Nov-2019 22:50 Message #4761497
Nice one NigelInDevon lol
Male
MikeNorthWales  Male  Conwy 4-Nov-2019 23:10 Message #4761504
Utterly bizarre thread … and I won’t be returning to it.
I take it your not up for a debate then So we just run away Sad
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 4-Nov-2019 23:46 Message #4761510
Could you clarify what you mean when you say secularism isn't going to cut it when push comes to shove? in what way do you mean 'push comes to shove'? push or shove what?
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 4-Nov-2019 23:54 Message #4761511
Sorry, I should have also added, 'the west's only hope against islam', do you mean islam poses a threat in some way to christianity or to the west?
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon 5-Nov-2019 06:27 Message #4761523
MikeNorthWales Male Conwy 4-Nov-2019 21:38 new Message #4761488
Secularism isn't going to cut it when push comes to shove. What do you think?


Do you think we need a religious war?
Female
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire 5-Nov-2019 09:22 Message #4761537
I've read bits of the Qur'an translated. I've also read quite a lot of the Old Testament. Not sure how having read those tomes would be considered significant in the light of the OP. I thought that they were quite striking in their similarities. And that should not be surprising, considering their origins.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 5-Nov-2019 10:44 Message #4761559
What Minnie, JustLyn and others have said. We need fewer zealots of all stripes, without the zealots trying to tell others how to live and which Gods they can worship or not we might all be able to live more peacably.
Male
Lovealways  Male  Cheshire 5-Nov-2019 19:17 Message #4761602
Mike needs to do a degree is common sense and decency not fine art as ignorance is making him blind to his surroundings.reading stuff on the internet without common sense makes you a Mike from North Wales.
People like you are the biggest obstacle for progress of harmony in this world ..... I could say more but it requires a certain amount of intelligence to comprehend

Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 5-Nov-2019 19:21 Message #4761605
As he run away?
Does he not want to debate?
Ok Mike, run away and hide.

hahahaha
Female
joolsy  Female  Essex 7-Nov-2019 12:16 Message #4761769
I respect all religions mike .we can learn alot from diversity .i was helpin my grandaughter with her re homwork .we were discusing all religions .i told her àll about .my dad who was catholic and her greatgrandfather who was jewish .her other other greatgrandfather was seik .my jewish nana used to pray with her lovely friend in the baptist church ..she loved the gospel music .i loves all mike .maybe you could do the same eh x
Male
FirmButFair-TrollPatrol  Male  North Yorkshire 7-Nov-2019 22:33 Message #4761825
You’re a wise lady joolsy. Maybe due to being brought up by a wise family.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 8-Nov-2019 10:50 Message #4761857
If I remember rightly this was one of Mike's pet posts when he was here before and it always stirred up lot of controvercy then so I guess he's hoping for a rerun.
Male
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire 8-Nov-2019 11:44 Message #4761868
I'm not a great one for the Bible and the god rubbish.....and I've never read the Quran....but it seems that followers of the bible don't take things in it as literally as followers of the Quran...

Some of the commandments in the bible, for instance.....If they were followed literally....most of us would be dead....killed...for not following them properly....
Male
Orson  Male  Tayside 8-Nov-2019 17:26 Message #4761893
Whether one likes it or not, the Bible is probably one of the most significant tomes ever written. However as literacy in those days was confined almost exclusively to the clergy, or who acted as such. It is not surprising that a certain bias is established.

Belief and believe, however, are two different things. That in tandem with the earliest form of journalism are involved, one shouldn't be entirely surprised at the results.
Female
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire 10-Nov-2019 10:23 Message #4762069
Maybe he wants us all to convert to Christianity? Fat chance, in my case. Once I had concluded that I don't believe in original sin, a saviour became somewhat redundant and I realised that therefore being a Christian was impossible for me.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 10-Nov-2019 11:33 Message #4762072
Or atheism, I seem to remember there was a time when posts like this would be put up there's be a couple of reasonable posts then the heavy duty atheists would pile in and it would end up with spats about various strands of Abrahamic religion and how crap they were and how people woud stop dying in wars if there was no religion, like humans can't find anythig else to fight about. Anyone of a non Abrahamic faith would be ignored at best of just slagged off at worst.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 18-Nov-2019 11:12 Message #4762742
Lovealways: "Mike needs to do a degree is common sense and decency not fine art as ignorance is making him blind to his surroundings.reading stuff on the internet without common sense makes you a Mike from North Wales."

Rather than criticising Mike of ignorance, and as some seem to have read hardly any of the qur'an, I think it better to consider the extracts from the qur'an in my next few posts and their links. As usual, I quote so as not to be suspected of perverting what "holy texts" actually say, I often look at the main translations (e.g. Yusuf Ali) and others from the kind of Arabic, and the hadith(s) that I quote from are what most Muslims and their scholars consider the most authentic/reliable ("sahih") ones of Al-Bukhari and Muslim. Some years ago I missed a flight to Venice as I was so engrossed in the qur'an in the airport's prayer room. The internet gives the opportunity of seeing many translations of the original text, and they are usually similar. e.g. in thread "Respecting other people's beliefs! Why?" http://www.midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=175115&page=3 my post on 27-May-13 at 15:53 includes:-
"For example here are 6 translations of one of those verses:-
Qur'an 5:33 Sahih International: "Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,"
[5 more translations] ...
Are those 6 translations from Islamic website http://quran.com/5/33 not enough for you? Look at the 17 translations in Islamic website www.internetmosque.net/read/english_translation_of_the_quran_meaning/5/33/index.htm "

And Muhammad did much worse than that. For example:-
Reliable ("sahih") hadith Muslim 16:4130-4131 includes "They then fell upon the shepherds and killed them and turned apostates from Islam and drove off the camels of the Prophet (may peace be upon him). This news reached Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him) and he sent (people) on their track and they were (brought) and handed over to him. He (the Holy Prophet) got their hands cut off, and their feet, and put out their eyes, and threw them on the stony ground until they died."
Practically all Muslims regard Muhammad as the perfect man whose way of life should be followed.

I won't go here into what is/isn't "common sense" and factually false about Islamic teachings.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 18-Nov-2019 11:15 Message #4762743
MikeNorthWales: ”Is christianity The West's only hope against islam?"

No. People being aware of what Islam preaches, by reading the qur'an and those hadith(s) that most Muslims consider to be reliable, and histories by Islamic scholars, is also a hope against Islam. Faults (and Islam has plenty, examples on request) can be seen by followers of another religion, and people who don't have a religion.
Christianity is mainly (not always) a religion of love, whereas Islam has plenty of goodness towards Muslims but animosity to non-Muslims. Unfortunately, love doesn't always overcome hate.


MikeNorthWales: "Secularism isn't going to cut it when push comes to shove."

Pushing arguments, rather than physically shoving people, secularism can often win against Islam. I watch numerous videos on YouTube by Christians (e.g. Acts17Apologetics/David Wood), atheists (e.g. Rationalty Rules), Muslims (e.g. Zakir Naik), and ex-Muslims (e.g. Apostate Prophet). Some give many quotes from the qur'an and reliable hadith(s), and receive death threats from Muslims for exposing them. Some university lectures about Islamic history gloss over atrocities that are in Islamic texts.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 18-Nov-2019 11:17 Message #4762744
Justlyn: "Those who follow the Koran closely, know it is a peaceful religion"

No it isn't. The qur'an/koran has "nice" verses, especially towards other Muslims. But generally the peaceful verses are superseded by the violent verses, which were written when Muhammad became more powerful, and which many Muslims aren't informed about. (This is called abrogation and the qur'an explicitly allows it, with its inherent self-contradictions.) In the qur'an the verses are not in chronological order, and hadith(s) show when certain verses were dictated.

The qur'an has numerous quotes inciting its followers to war. For example:-
- Qur'an 2:161 "Lo! Those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers; on them is the curse of Allah and of angels and of men combined."
- Qur'an 2:216 "Warfare is ordained [officially ordered] for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."
- Qur'an 2:244 "Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearer, Knower."
- Qur'an 2:286 "... give us victory over the disbelieving folk".
- Qur'an 3:12 "Say (O Muhammad) unto those who disbelieve: Ye shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell, an evil resting-place.".
- Qur'an 3:56 "As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers."
- Qur'an 3:157 "And what though ye be slain in Allah's way or die therein? Surely pardon from Allah and mercy are better than all that they amass.".
- Qur'an 4:74 "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
- Qur'an 4:76 "Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak."

On request I can give many more qur'an quotes about fighting and warfare. They are far more physical than the hymn "Onward Christian soldiers"!

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