Conversation The Common Room
Helper icon Helpers: Chris2mates , LLstill , PrincessFruitBat


About us


Midsummer's Eve is a free online dating community - based around friendship, real meetups, real people, and real relationships. We've been online since 1999 and have twice won Radio 2's Web Site of the Day award. So why not join us for free and join in the discussion?

Beggars

or homeless

1 2 Next >  Last >> 

Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 7-Sep-2019 14:06 Message #4751309
Do you have different views/opinions of them depending which you perceive them to be? do you regard them as human or something less than human? Have you ever been homeless or had to beg to survive?

I've been homeless twice, never had to beg.....yet.
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 7-Sep-2019 14:11 Message #4751311
It would have been instructive to know YOUR position on this highly emotive and (I predict) divisive topic.
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 7-Sep-2019 14:15 Message #4751312
What we have in so many cases now is the reappearance of The Lump in the so-called Gig economy.
And again, whilst cracking down on "Benefits" for the poor, the sick, those who are vulnerable, this BrExit-Tory Gov't has encouraged the growth of this cynical "Tax" evasion trick by countless employers and driven so many into poverty.
The huge rise in those claiming to be "In employment" and below the poverty line is fuelled by people now registering themselves as "Self-employed". In 1 000s of cases, those people are on Zero hours exclusive contracts, phone your Agency every morning "Spot" jobs, three jobs per day - cash in hand swindles, a massive growth in the number and users of "Food Banks".
In the main, that is where those who you choose to term "beggars" get their life-saving supplies.

I remember the days when Soup Kitchens and Free Food 'Lines' were a phenomenon confined to US/A and a few small areas in our largest cities.
Now they are an every-day occurrence and an essential life-line for far too many families.

They are so much part of our society that BrExit-Tories, the Mail, Express, Telegraph etc have stopped hiring people to follow Food Bank users home in the hope that they can find them living in luxury rather than an "Unfit for human habitation" hovel.
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 7-Sep-2019 14:22 Message #4751313
@terry 7-Sep-2019 14:06

It would be interesting to know if you have even a passing acquaintance with:

Down and out in Paris and London
+/
The Road to Wigan Pier.
Female
Cautious1954  Female  Berkshire 7-Sep-2019 14:24 Message #4751314
I’ve never been homeless or had to beg so I’ve been lucky because it can happen to anyone. We can’t possibly know the circumstances of how other people have arrived in their situation but I see them as unfortunate humans. Our local authorities do a lot to help them and the homeless charities and volunteers offer extra help too. I feel concerned for their wellbeing particularly with winter approaching.
Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire 7-Sep-2019 15:35 Message #4751325
I was homeless for a while but have generally been lucky in life. I agree completely with the post from Cautiousa954.
Female
RAACH84  Female  Buckinghamshire 7-Sep-2019 18:40 Message #4751348
Terry. I hope nobody here thinks of the homeless or beggars as less than human. I know some do feel that way but I’m sure nobody on this site does.
Male
Nigel_In_Devon  Male  Devon 7-Sep-2019 20:25 Message #4751352
I would be surprised and quite horrified if anyone admitted to considering beggars and/or homeless as less that human.
Female
eurostar  Female  Merseyside 7-Sep-2019 21:51 Message #4751363
I wouldn't think anyone would see them as less than human,but with some conning gets would apply, not all homeless are beggars and not all beggars are homeless, most people would help out any genuine person.........
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 7-Sep-2019 21:55 Message #4751364
eurostar 7-Sep-2019 21:51
Advice from many pertinent Charities is that 'donations' should be channelled via recognized groups rather than to individuals.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 7-Sep-2019 22:19 Message #4751367
OK, whilst people were complaining I was posting too much on my younger son losing his Personal Independent Payment last November due to lies on his report from ATOS, a private health assessment company, my eldest son, the year before was threatened with homelessness.

Some don't think I should give away too much personal stuff on here, and I don't need help and I don't feel sorry for myself, I am just baffled and amazed how my three healthy normal and intelligent children of which the two older boys passed for the local grammar school (Trafford still has that system) could end up with such problems, and their younger sister having Myalgic encephalopathy. I couldn't have made it, had I been a Munchausen's by proxy (A parent who wants their child to be ill to gain attention).

So how did my eldest son almost become homeless, an intelligent well educated young man?

He started with depression around age 14 and I suspected a sleep disorder. He couldn't sleep and then he couldn't wake. He would sleep walk and talk and sleep with his eyes open. He lost friends because he never seemed to keep arrangements.
He dropped out of college at 18 and didn't get the grades to get to uni. He feigned going in for 2 years.

He had no trouble getting work, but got sacked because he was often later due to the sleep problem. Doctors were useless and thought he needed more exercise.

I used to drive to work past where he lived and I knew, when I saw his old car still there he hadn't made it in to work.

His dad and I split up but I knew I had to afford a house that would fit my eldest in when eventually he lost the ability to pay rent on the house he shared with students. He copped it for all the council tax because he technically was working and the other 3 were students so he was in debt for that.

As I predicted, he had to move back with me and luckily my house had a small dining room that used to be part of a through kitchen. I offered to support him through another chance at college which took 2 years instead of 1 because of his recurring depression but their disability services helped and he got special consideration for time off. When he thought he could get his chance at Uni he pulled his socks up and got a distinction.

He started at Sheffield and the depression came back. They were not so great at support and was oblivious to the fact he could be dead in bed. I had to intervene and contact the disability unit there. He got meagre erratic support and some extensions to the work on his environmental architecture degree. It took him 6 years instead of 3, then on the final submission, the uni computer went down and he missed the submission deadline.

By this time he had to leave student accommodation by June. No job, no student loan, no income. Yet he had to keep access to his computer to deal with the final submission that he was trying to prove was true, which it was, but the uni seemed incompetent in responding to his complaint on that issue.

He went to the council to try to get housing, but being a single man he was not entitled to help. The housing department actually said he would "have to render himself homeless" then approach them. I rang to explain about his transition from Uni and still he needed to keep his stuff to complete his degree, but they were not interested.

I rang Shelter, they said the same thing.

The Jobcentre said he could NOT HAVE ANY MONEY because at that time Universal Credit took 6 WEEKS and anyone private letting wanted 4 weeks deposit plus 4 weeks rent. This wonderful government have reduced it to 5 weeks (for what good that does!).

Luckily, at his age of then 34, me, his mum, had to borrow £1000 to prevent him being left on the streets. Not only that, but lose his degree, his computer, his clothes and anything of value to him. He couldn't love back home again because by then his younger sister had had to move back home due to her completely different illness.

I don't have a god,
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 7-Sep-2019 22:49 Message #4751376
I wouldn't think anyone would see them as less than human,but with some conning gets would apply, not all homeless are beggars and not all beggars are homeless, most people would help out any genuine person........

Exactly.
Male
Witheflow  Male  North Yorkshire 8-Sep-2019 04:54 Message #4751389
I feel for your son Justlyn. And what a wonderful Mother you are. Well done!
Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire 8-Sep-2019 07:41 Message #4751393
I would be surprised and quite horrified if anyone admitted to considering beggars and/or homeless as less that human.

I would also be surprised and horrified but have seen no evidence over my years on the site to think that might be the case.

Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 8-Sep-2019 11:38 Message #4751437
Yes, yes and no, I'm also aware that not all beggars are homeless and some are more organised than others.

I'm sure no one would admit to thinking beggars and homeless are less human, but I'm sure many think it.
Male
BlackMark1  Male  Leicestershire 8-Sep-2019 11:50 Message #4751440
I think most people have looked at a beggar or homeless person and wondered if they are genuine but even if they think they are being conned for money or criminality is involved I still don’t think many look on them as less human.
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 8-Sep-2019 22:48 Message #4751572
We could quite easily find hostel type accommodation for anyone who is sleeping on the streets as they only represent a small proportion of those included in the homeless statistics.
The problems are much more complex because the majority have other issues of addictions or mental health and won’t accept the available help. A lot of temporary accommodation arranged over last winter remained empty.
It’s easy for governments or critics to spout statistics or try to political point score but it is a constant struggle helping those with problems who need more that food and shelter.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 9-Sep-2019 07:19 Message #4751592
JustLyn.

Some don't think I should give away too much personal stuff on here

I’m sure you are absolutely honest and genuine when you give anecdotal accounts of the unfortunate events concerning your children but such personal accounts make it very difficult for others to comment without also being personal or even cruel. Politicians often do this to good effect.

If MP says “a lot of people are suffering due to taxes” then the statement is open to debate.

If MP says “poor elderly Mrs Jones is suffering due to taxes” then this stifles debate because many don’t want of offend “Mrs Jones”.

I know you feel you have been unfairly picked on at times so I hope my explanation helps as to how others may feel uncomfortable when reading anecdotal accounts and that although your accounts are personal the replies are likely to be general.
Male
tumbleweed  Male  Gloucestershire 9-Sep-2019 08:24 Message #4751596
The whole subject of beggars and homelessness is a minefield....There are so many different scenarios and so many different opinions....

I know many people hate seeing beggars, hate being approached by them, hate engaging with them...hate being ripped off by them, hate many other things....yet ask the same people about beggars and they say how sorry they feel for them, how they want to help them, how they are 'humans like us' etc....

Many 'normal' people seem to be like that....including myself....I hate engaging with beggars, I hate giving them money to spend on alcohol and drugs, I hate them lying, i hate being ripped off, I hate them ripping others off...it goes on and on...

To be PC, you 'have' to say how much you want to help them, how much you care....yet in many many cases, you don't help them, and don't care..

Also, like life in general, the bad ruin it for the good....Amongst all the genuine ones who really need help, there are the evil ones with addictions beyond help, beyond wanting help, just wanting to fuel their addictions..and will do anything to fuel them...

There is much more to say...but I won't for now...
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 9-Sep-2019 08:41 Message #4751600
Hiero,
"I’m sure you are absolutely honest and genuine when you give anecdotal accounts of the unfortunate events concerning your children but such personal accounts make it very difficult for others to comment without also being personal or even cruel. Politicians often do this to good effect. "

No one with any modicum of common sense needs to be cruel to anyone using a personal example of why something is or is not working. If we only go off what an MP of any genre states, there is no evidence whether their stats are right or wrong. We could debate until the cows come home and people will believe the deception. By using personal or real examples, the situation cannot be disputed unless the person is not genuine and honest. In my opinion, debates are stifled if certain people continue to pontificate things that should be disputed by reality. If people choose to use personal or real examples, it is up to them, but if people give cruel responses it says more about the responder than the example giver.

"I know you feel you have been unfairly picked on at times so I hope my explanation helps as to how others may feel uncomfortable when reading anecdotal accounts and that although your accounts are personal the replies are likely to be general."

You KNOW I think I have been unfairly picked on. WRONG
I do not feel I have been unfairly picked at all.
To be unfairly picked on one had to be singled out as an individual.
No, I am a really happy life enjoying women. I just cannot sit back on my haunches and do nothing because I do anxiety about the future safety of not just my children, but all those I am in indirect contact with, 1000's of them, who are in the same position. My occasional personal example giving is a truthful representation of what many are bearing the brunt of at the hands of the Conservative Government since Cameron and in my opinion is far more serious than worrying if they get a hold for a further term.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 9-Sep-2019 08:48 Message #4751602
TW,

I great response to the thread. Yes, many homeless people on the streets seem entrenched in their lifestyle and refuse help. It is a really difficult issue and I think many of them have a peer group, almost a family on the streets they "belong" to.

Don't you think the problem partly has been made worse from the lack of support of the youth that started when Youth Clubs were closed as part of funding cut backs. I am not sure when this started but it is certainly more complex and rather than trying just trying to tackle the consequences, society needs to tackle the source.

We have also had horrendous cutbacks in mental health support, the service is in crisis and a year's waiting list for anyone seeking help.
Male
Withgoodintent  Male  North Yorkshire 9-Sep-2019 08:49 Message #4751603
HotOrWot Male Lancashire 9-Sep-2019 07:19 new Message #4751592
JustLyn.

Some don't think I should give away too much personal stuff on here

I’m sure you are absolutely honest and genuine when you give anecdotal accounts of the unfortunate events concerning your children but such personal accounts make it very difficult for others to comment without also being personal or even cruel. Politicians often do this to good effect.

If MP says “a lot of people are suffering due to taxes” then the statement is open to debate.

If MP says “poor elderly Mrs Jones is suffering due to taxes” then this stifles debate because many don’t want of offend “Mrs Jones”.

I know you feel you have been unfairly picked on at times so I hope my explanation helps as to how others may feel uncomfortable when reading anecdotal accounts and that although your accounts are personal the replies are likely to be general.


You are right Hottie for a change. The reasons are there but it doesn’t excuse the behaviour of those who are cruel and uncaring towards others.
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 9-Sep-2019 11:04 Message #4751637
JustLyn.

You have nailed it exactly. those on the street do develop a 'family' and although much of it is drug/drink induced at times they don't want to change.

I have looked into independent reports on NHS and mental health spending as these are discussed at work and we have experts giving talks from time to time. I understand that spending on mental health has gone up in the past few years but only by very little when inflation is taken into account. There are no official figures going back much further than this but it's thought there has been a slow and steady rise in spending.

I don't know if the lack of youth clubs made a lot of difference to this particular group. I have seen a decline in youths wanting to be part of the community whether it's clubs or sport but I think we need a concerted effort to bring about community gatherings of any sort.
Most of societies problems would do better tackled at source but I'm guessing from some of my own experiences that it's a lot easier to convince governments and authorities to spend money if you can put your finger on the problem. When you say spending millions now might make a big difference in the future - how do you convince anyone of that?

We work closely with so many departments, charities and volunteers that we are on top of most of the problems if only those we're trying to help would co-operate too.

I noticed you had been in different forms of nursing a very long time Lyn and I have done the same in my work. I'm suprised we haven't all got headaches from banging our heads on brick walls.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 9-Sep-2019 11:27 Message #4751642
Many people don't feel safe in hostels and shelters, if you feel safer on the streets then theres something seriously wrong with the hostels and shelters, it isn't just one homeless person I've heard say this but loads.

Some people will never want to change, but many do and they may need more specialist help and support to do so and I don't think thats always there. Addiction clinics have been cut, mental health in general is still a Cinderella service, youth provision seems almost non existant, its all very well talking about people falling through gaps in the system, but its seems more like yawing great holes in the system. Surely you have to have these basic foundations in place to build on otherwise its castles in the air?
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 9-Sep-2019 11:41 Message #4751645
I great response to the thread. Yes, many homeless people on the streets seem entrenched in their lifestyle and refuse help. It is a really difficult issue and I think many of them have a peer group, almost a family on the streets they "belong" to.

That is a major problem and a difficult one to solve.

1 2 Next >  Last >> 


Back to top  Back to top

Help with conversations Help with conversations »