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The economy.

Is growth always a good thing.

Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 13-Aug-2019 19:57 Message #4748586
Since the Industrial Revolution, countries seem to be aiming for growth.

Do you think there is a limit where we will get to a point when enough is enough and it's OK to stand still or even go backwards a bit and see a positive side to it?

I am not that clued up on economics of countries but it does seem unsustainable to constantly have to grow production and even services to make every more profits to the point we are throwing things away.

I mean even if you use an analogy of a cabbage field. There are only so many cabbages one can grow and eat.

If growth of the economy is connected to climate change, littering, contamination. Is growing the economy worth it?
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 13-Aug-2019 20:13 Message #4748588
Tell us where Bob's brains are, and I will talk to you?
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 13-Aug-2019 21:38 Message #4748618
I think the problem is that nobody talks of sensible compromise which is the only way it works for everyone. It’s the same in almost every walk of life - if you want fairness for all then extreme left and extreme right minorities cannot be running the show.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 13-Aug-2019 22:23 Message #4748629
Between the sweet meats.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 13-Aug-2019 22:29 Message #4748631
HotorWot,

I agree about compromise. Where I suspect we disagree is interpretation of extreme or identification of extreme.

Thinking further on your comment, maybe it's the perceived hate associated with extreme anything.
Male
Withgoodintent  Male  North Yorkshire 13-Aug-2019 22:35 Message #4748633
You could be right JustLyn. I’ve been around a long time and seen a lot of political changes and actions but I have never seen anything on the extremes which benefitted the majority and even less so the working classes and disadvantaged.
I have seen extreme idealists wanting to fulfil their ideals regardless of who gets hurt. I have also seen no real differences between extreme left and right. Neither work for the majority.
If we want fairness then we need compromises which involve working together.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 13-Aug-2019 22:39 Message #4748634
Yes.
I hope one good thing could come from a general election and that's no overall power. More collaboration and cross party consensus on important issues, well all issues that get to parliament.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 14-Aug-2019 00:41 Message #4748646
I do not think Bob's brain is where you say it is.
If it was there he would find it every 5 minutes.
Male
OnlineMSE  Male  Essex 14-Aug-2019 09:22 Message #4748677
I hope one good thing could come from a general election and that's no overall power.

FFS, a coalition government. As Brenda from Bristol would say "Not another one"
Another wasted 5 years. No ta.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 14-Aug-2019 11:47 Message #4748699
I agree with you Lyn, politicians in this country and probably the rest of the world are obsessed with control and pushing thier agenda onto everyone else instead of working together for the national good. The idea that a strong government is one that inflexible, can't change its mind let alone admit to getting something wrong is absurd, everyone else is told that admitting you're mistakes and doing what you can to put things right is being strong, so why's it different for governments? The other obsession is growth, its is unsustainable in its current form, I think we need to ask who and what are we doing it for? There are many problems with slower growth or changing our economy in a way thats sustainable and thats that many people don't want it to change, they want to keep consuming and they want to consume more than others, they think it makes them "great" to be surrounded by gew jaws and have more money than they could ever spend, they think it igves them the right to tell others what to do and wield a big stick to force their will on people. We need more social equality, but these rich misers would feel deminished and throw thier toys out of the pram at the thought of others being paid the real value for their contribution to society.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 14-Aug-2019 18:11 Message #4748720
WH,

Very insightful writing.
I think there's a lot of truth in what you wrote, but I would go on to say I'm not sure all who wield the big stick actually are aware of it either.

There's the manipulators and toe steppers, then there's the ignorantly powerful with benevolent intent, but stick have and enjoy the stick.
Female
Aely  Female  Hampshire 14-Aug-2019 20:11 Message #4748744
Continual growth is as unsustainable as a Pyramid scam.
Male
persona_non_grata  Male  North London 14-Aug-2019 20:24 Message #4748747
JustLyn. I agree we need more collaboration and cross party consensus. I thought the last coalition was better than many governments I’ve known.
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 15-Aug-2019 22:13 Message #4748844
Coalition governments and some form of proportional representation would be a start in making the UK electorate feel more connected to their political system. Any form of proportional representation in the UK would take power away from the main political parties and thus they will do everything in their power to prevent that ever happening.

I still remember the outright lies that D.Cameron stated in a TV interview about the injustice of Conservative voters having to submit to proportional representation.

To all those who deride coalition governments just remember this: the UK was administered under a coalition government at a time of great need and the country survived well. (10 May 1940 to 23 May 1945.)

SQL

Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 16-Aug-2019 09:37 Message #4748850
I don't see what coalition Governments have to do with growth but I think we as a nation need to change our attitude to accommodate cross-party working.
Many say it's all the politician's fault, but it's all of us, we are so used to working and thinking along party lines. Can anybody honestly say they think a Government made up of representatives from three, four or even five political parties would work, and more importantly, be allowed to work?
Imagine a Government with Labour, SNP , Lib Dem and a sprinkling of Brexit party MP's all trying to pull together for the good of the country.
I don't see it ever happening, do you?...
Male
Neros1954  Male  Devon 16-Aug-2019 09:47 Message #4748852
I can see advantages in a coalition government and the LibDem/Conservative coalition performed better than the Conservatives had done on their own.
Several parties working together could work on the big important issues.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 16-Aug-2019 09:54 Message #4748853
Look how the Lib Dems were almost destroyed because people don't understand the concept of coalition and how compromise is needed to make it work.
I agree, that coalition was some of the best Governance this country has had for years, but we can't enjoy that, then smash one of the lesser parties to bits because they supported what the bigger party was doing and we didn't like it...
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 16-Aug-2019 09:58 Message #4748854
Hierophant - 16-Aug-2019 09:37

I don't see what coalition Governments have to do with growth

The government of the day have an impact on the economy, they can go for growth, usually by borrowing and subsidising or they can go for austerity, both of which have an impact on the growth of the economy. Common sense says that a coalition of many viewpoints will have a wider acceptance in the electorate than the current set of dogma-driven left or right main parties.

Can anybody honestly say they think a Government made up of representatives from three, four or even five political parties would work, and more importantly, be allowed to work?

Just open your eyes to the real world, Germany has a coalition administration, it has worked well and it's allowed to work. The UK's coalition government of May 1940 to May 1945 was an amalgam of many parties and it worked successfully.
I believe a fundamental change towards proportional representation is required to fully exploit coalition government. I thank a better question is "Can anyone think why a coalition government WON'T work and represent to electorate in a more acceptable manner?".

'First past the post' has been allowed to work and is so obviously inequitable in that a minority of the electorate can put a government in power for 5 years without any legal and non-disruptive way where the majority of the electorate can hold them to account. It is said often that the youth of this country feels disenfranchised by the current system, let's have a system where their views can be better expressed and enacted to make a better and more inclusive society.

SQL
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 16-Aug-2019 10:02 Message #4748855
I know it happens elsewhere in the world, that was my point - I can't see it being allowed to happen here, at this time and it's not just politicians who are to blame...
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 16-Aug-2019 10:03 Message #4748856
Hierophant - 16-Aug-2019 09:54

Look how the Lib Dems were almost destroyed ...

That's an entirely different problem, education of the electorate is required to explain the concept and process of coalition. I read and was amazed by some of the comments made by ardent Lib-Dems when they didn't get their way all the time in the coalition government. Just think about the situation and what compromise means.

SQL
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 16-Aug-2019 10:05 Message #4748858
It's not a different problem, it's all part of the same problem...
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 16-Aug-2019 10:06 Message #4748859
Hierophant - 16-Aug-2019 10:02

I know it happens elsewhere in the world, that was my point - I can't see it being allowed to...

What do you means, it's happened here and it worked. It just needs someone with enough clout to wring the necks of Labour and Conservative and change our electoral system.

After that coalitions will happen as a matter of course.

SQL
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 16-Aug-2019 10:17 Message #4748860
Yes it survived, but the Lib Dems paid a very heavy price and no doubt the same would happen again.
I don't think it's what people really want, they say they want harmony, cooperation and the rest, but as soon as it starts to happen, they take sides.
Occasional, accidental coalitions are one thing, changing our system to PR and ensuring constant coalition government is something entirely different...
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 16-Aug-2019 10:49 Message #4748864
So you are condemning the larger part of the electorate to be unrepresented.

SQL
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 16-Aug-2019 11:24 Message #4748869
You wouldn't get a coalition of Labour LibDems and Brexit Party, because they're to politically opposed. I think the LibDems were used and abused by the Tories and that Nick Clegg was no match for Cameron who to my mind was one of the weakest PM's we've ever had. A coalition like the last one was always going to be hard for the smaller party because of the way our system works, a three way coalition would be better because if one party got over mightly the others would bring it back down to earth, I think it would take a lot of the ego's and dick swinging out of politics which can only be a good thing. Its nto just th larger part of the electorate who are unrepresented but many who's views do not chime with Westminsterwhen it comes to local issues, who does ones MP vote with, the constituents who they represent or the party they're a member of? I think we could make a good start on more open politics by abolishing whips.


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