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The Truth!

People dont want the truth.

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Male
Michaelt  Male  Devon 1-Jul-2019 10:39 Message #4743111
The people wouldnt like the truth, so ill tell the truth. The British are the most politically uneducated race in the industrialised world. The people are apathetic up to their eyeballs. The people want their vital services up and running, but are not prepared to pay the income tax necessary to make that happen. The people keep voting for a low income tax small State right wing Tory Governments. First Thatcher, then Major, then Cameron, then May. Blair's New Labour Government continued all this for 13 years.

Then along came the Brexit Leave vote delivered to us via a huge lack of political education. And in my view driven by immigration.

The people have have made life a living hell for our young people, via the ballot box since the 80's, and no matter who wins the general election, I cant see things changing.

We are a nation of moaners and whiners without the savvy or backbone to leave our armchairs to at least try and do something about it.

Today's generation are lazy minded, small talking fools, who dont appear to want a much better country or Society, and they will be critical of anybody who at least tries to achieve this momentum.

We remain an "i'm all right Jack" nation.

If I was standing for parliament, this is precisely what I would say, because its the truth.
Male
Templar2013  Male  South East London 1-Jul-2019 10:55 Message #4743112
Michaelt. I think most people would agree with a lot of what you say and it started to go wrong after the 60s. and Labour governments and unions have been just as destructive if not more so. I’m a little puzzled as to why you believe you are more educated and wiser than everyone else in the country?
Male
zodiac1  Male  Flintshire 1-Jul-2019 11:19 Message #4743113
THE TRUTH !

We could all do with being told the truth by polititians

Chancellor Hammond said we had a 36 billion war chest ready for Brexit then PM May said she was using 27 billion of it for " vanity projects " but Hammond says she can only have 9 billion of it.

Now we have Jeremy Hunt telling us there is a 60 billion war chest available

Is anybody in government telling the truth ?
Male
Dustybin  Male  Suffolk 1-Jul-2019 12:31 Message #4743117
Michael, if you were standing for Parliament you would lose your deposit.
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 1-Jul-2019 12:49 Message #4743118
It certainly is easy to believe that no politician tells the truth but this is clearly not the case. It would be more accurate to say they don't always check the facts bfore making statements and with regards to money we have available I don;lt believe anyone in or out of any government could put their finger on a precise figure.

then PM May said she was using 27 billion of it for " vanity projects " Now let us not tell lies. May didnt say that did she!

Mrs May announced spending initiatives on issues ranging from climate change to mental health and housebuilding which I would hardly describe as "vanity projects".
Male
Michaelt  Male  Devon 1-Jul-2019 14:18 Message #4743123
Dustybin, That's because people dont want the truth. And judging by the comments so far on this posting, people wouldnt know the truth if they sat on it.
Male
Michaelt  Male  Devon 1-Jul-2019 14:21 Message #4743124
Templar2013, Your comment is so breathtakingly ridiculous, I wont even bother to attempt a sensible response.
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 1-Jul-2019 14:27 Message #4743127
Has it occurred to you michaelt that when dozens of posters disagree with and it appears that you are the only person on the planet who is right that possibly ...
Just possibly ... ???

* I’m a little puzzled as to why you believe you are more educated and wiser than everyone else in the country?* But someone has already asked the same question.
Male
Michaelt  Male  Devon 1-Jul-2019 14:31 Message #4743129
tsunamiwarrior, I am objective. The majority of British people are very politically ignorant...
Male
Michaelt  Male  Devon 1-Jul-2019 14:34 Message #4743130
tsunamiwarrior , Our politicians are laughing all the way to the bank...
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 1-Jul-2019 14:41 Message #4743132
I have lived long enough to have seen several political parties in action and hundreds of politicians doing their bit. I'm intelligent and savvy enough to see which are decent people and which are not. I can see which are likely to be helping the country and which are there to help themselves.
It's not enough to say our politicians are laughing all the way to the bank because many are working hard night and day to make our country a better and fairer place to live in. Some are extremely underpaid for the amount of selfless work they do. It is unfair to tar them all with the same brush.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 1-Jul-2019 15:16 Message #4743134
"I am objective. The majority of British people are very politically ignorant..."

Where I come from that's known as being up your own arse...
Male
InSanityClaus  Male  Cornwall 1-Jul-2019 15:32 Message #4743135
Now this is just an observation, and not, I repeat NOT a cast in concrete opinion,
Back along we had a Labour Government, and unemployment rose to just a tad over 4 million.
Mrs Thatcher came to power, and by the time John Major let go of the control stick
unemployment was down to 1.5 million.

Then we had B'liar and Broon, and guess what? unemployment rose to...yep 4million.

So Dave came in the door, followed by Nick and now Mrs May, and unemployment is only a tad over
1.2 million,
So unless I have this totally wrong I'm savvy enough to know what's good for the country, but not
always good for me.

Just to throw a swerve ball, health tourists, if the hospitals claimed what they were owed how much
better would the service be that we are supposed to be complaining about, but refusing to pay the tax for?
With just one London hospital being owed £20 million...
Male
Michaelt  Male  Devon 1-Jul-2019 15:57 Message #4743139
InSanityClaus , The truth of the matter is that we havent had a Labour Government since the 70's. Since the Tories came to power in 1979, under Margaret Thatcher, jobs have been short term, low waged, and insecure. Unemployment is dependent on the vagaries of market forces.

Statistics are can be fiddled to confuse those who are easily fooled.

Male
barney  Male  Surrey 1-Jul-2019 16:04 Message #4743141
Michaelt,

I think you summed it up perfectly when you said, " we are a nation of moaners and whiner's without the savvy or backbone to leave our armchairs to at least try and do something about it ".

Have you ever left your armchair to stand as a MP or hold a position in public office and use your superior political knowledge to try and change things, I bet not.
You are quite content to sit there firing off posts to forums and letters to the Editor while letting someone else do the work.
All you and the other fake posters on here do is rant and rave about the Tories whilst sitting there feeling hard done by.

Its you that can't handle the truth.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 1-Jul-2019 16:47 Message #4743142
Labour make business more difficult, they tie businesses up in red tape because they think it "helps" and "protects" workers.
In reality of course it makes it more difficult for businesses to make money so they can't pay the said workers wages and unemployment rises.
Labour try to counter this by bloating public services with more and more staff who have to be paid by, yep you guessed it, the taxpayers.
It's a vicious circle that they get themselves in - unemployment rises, inflation rises, borrowing rises and strikes increase because the unions have too much power and life for ordinary workers is crap.
It's the socialists merry-go-round...
Male
Witheflow  Male  North Yorkshire 1-Jul-2019 18:13 Message #4743145
MichaelT. A superb and truly empathic assessment of the selfish baby boomer mentality. I'm alright Jack! mentalists are difficult to awaken. I feel a song coming ...

350 million reasons why, written on the side of the bus

We’re going to spend it on the health of the nation for the good of all of us

Lies! Lies! Lies!

We’re going to build a Northern Powerhouse for the rustbelt communities

And then we’re going to share the money out with the hardworking families

Lies! Lies! Lies!

We’re going to be the greenest government the world has ever seen

We’ll be the champions of the vulnerable oh and we’re ending child poverty

Always the same people pay for your goddam

Lies! Lies! Lies!

Lies! Lies! Lies!

Lies! Lies! Lies!

Lies! Lies! Lies! Lies! Lies!

We’re going to wield a simple sawed-off truth seen through transparency

We’re going to make this country great again

Get on the bus and we’ll set you free get on the bus and we’ll set you free

Always the same people pay for your lies

Always the same people pay for your lies

It’s always the same people pay for your goddam lies.

Lies! Lies! Lies!
(End)

When enough people make false promises. Words stop meaning anything. Then there are no more answers. Only better and better lies.
Male
Witheflow  Male  North Yorkshire 1-Jul-2019 18:19 Message #4743146
MichaelT. A superb and truly empathic assessment of the selfish baby boomer mentality. I'm alright Jack! mentalists are difficult to awaken. I feel a song coming ...

350 million reasons why, written on the side of the bus

We’re going to spend it on the health of the nation for the good of all of us

Lies! Lies! Lies!

We’re going to build a Northern Powerhouse for the rustbelt communities

And then we’re going to share the money out with the hardworking families

Lies! Lies! Lies!

We’re going to be the greenest government the world has ever seen

We’ll be the champions of the vulnerable oh and we’re ending child poverty

Always the same people pay for your goddam

Lies! Lies! Lies!

Lies! Lies! Lies!

Lies! Lies! Lies!

Lies! Lies! Lies! Lies! Lies!

We’re going to wield a simple sawed-off truth seen through transparency

We’re going to make this country great again

Get on the bus and we’ll set you free get on the bus and we’ll set you free

Always the same people pay for your lies

Always the same people pay for your lies

It’s always the same people pay for your goddam lies.

Lies! Lies! Lies!
(End)

When enough people make false promises. Words stop meaning anything. Then there are no more answers. Only better and better lies.
Male
Nigel_In_Devon  Male  Devon 1-Jul-2019 18:21 Message #4743147
Michaelt..."And judging by the comments so far on this posting, people wouldnt know the truth if they sat on it."

No, I don't believe you would!
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 1-Jul-2019 19:03 Message #4743156
Not your version of it they don't, you're just as petty and small minded as those you castigate, if not more so, I've yet to see anything positive from you, but maybe you're to far off the ground in your tower of arrogance to see anything other than reflections of your own misery. And I do think you're miserable and probably clinically depressed too if this is the way you get your jollies, I'd suggest you check into a happy tablet accademy if the Tories hadn't shut them all down. I suggest you refrain from replying to this post and save the planet from the emmissions coming from what it pleases you to call a brain.
Male
Gone_fishing  Male  Dorset 1-Jul-2019 21:00 Message #4743171
Humanity

Attempting to separate truth from deceit or deceptive behaviour has been a pastime of humanity for as long as human civilisation has been in existence … and then some.

My role model, Socrates, laid many of the original foundations regarding the meaning of truth and his method of enquiry, The Socratic Method, remains the bedrock of the foundations of the Western world we live in right up to today. Though the concept only works for humans! (I’ll explain what I mean by that later) :-))

2500 years ago, Socrates dared to state that, in all likelihood, it wasn’t the Gods who brought famine to a community but nature herself, meaning bad weather, not the Gods, was the likely cause of plague or starvation. This was blasphemy talk to the great and good of ancient Athens back then and, in similar acts and statements of truth, Socrates dared to quiz the rich and powerful, reminding them that while they may have been good at amassing wealth, that talent, alone, didn’t mean that being good at one thing meant they would be good at other things … like making judgments on citizens as senators in the Senate.

Predictably, Socrates gained enemies for daring to voice a truth that didn’t, always, lay easy on the company it was intended for.

The point being; if the truth can’t be proved to be wrong then, (even at the risk of death), a man should defend or express his perception of said truth even if, as in Socrates’s case, it could cost the truth sayer his life! In Socrates’s case it did.

Now

Let us move forward 2500 years to today. (And this very thread).

I’d say … How petty it is for someone to put up a thread, no, a rant, themed like this one when it is quite obvious and apparent that the O.P has absolutely no idea whatsoever about the actual concepts, meanings and historical messages we get from 2,500 years of contemplating aforementioned concepts of truth. Incidently, the O.P has not presented a thread open for general debate or engagement. Rather, he has just offered us a dictate.

But … to comment on the truth? (Or any truth?)

As far as we might ever glean it, (in its contemporary or ethereal state), the truth is actually there to be found, read or acted upon. The problem is though, especially within this 2nd decade of the 21st century, some folk are either too lazy, too trigger happy or simply too lacking in the cerebral resources to investigate, seek out or do enough homework to discover their perception of the real truth for themselves. (I think Mr Trump falls under that remit).

It is far easier to offer a knee jerk reaction on something they may have read or seen online without ever using some Socratean, or similar, method to investigate whatever claims may be being expressed.

Oh and let’s kill some idea of the truth always being that important anyway!

Nature

Over billions of years, Mother Nature, herself, has used deceit and deception to nurture, grow, hide and camouflage OR encouraged symbiotic relationships between different organisms (or species) to increase the chances of both parties in such a biological contract to increase their chances of survival and pro-creation … by employing deception!

Deceit is one of the greatest resources in the natural world’s playbook of life. :-)
Male
barney  Male  Surrey 1-Jul-2019 21:03 Message #4743172
Withtheflow gave us a chorus of his song.



Don't think it will make the top twenty though

Have you heard the song Tell me lies by Fleetwood Mac. Much better.

Now how about withtheflow you and your two comrades give us a rendition of,

We'll keep the red flag flying here.
Male
Gone_fishing  Male  Dorset 1-Jul-2019 21:11 Message #4743173
On my way out down The Hope and Anchor so the following examples have been, (lazily), cut and pasted from the net … but they remind us just how deceitful nature can be.

Bye. Chat later :-) xxx

“As night closes in across Kentucky a small chubby spider makes a silk line between two plants. She then moves along her “trapeze wire” and waits. After a while a moth approaches within range, and the spider unleashes a swinging sticky ball, ensnaring the moth and pulling him in to be eaten. The attacker is a bolas spider, and she hunts by releasing an odour that precisely matches the chemical composition of female moth mating pheromones. The male moth is lured in, but instead of getting a mate, he gets eaten.

One of the main uses of deception in nature is to secure food. The fork-tailed drongo is a bird found in Southern Africa that lurks around group-living species, including meerkats, and might at first appear helpful because it sounds alarm calls when a predator approaches. However, much of the time the drongo’s calls are made when no predator is around. The drongo watches as a meerkat digs up a juicy beetle and then makes a false alarm call, which causes the meerkat to flee, allowing the bird to swoop down and claim the prey for itself. The alarm calls drongos use even mimic those made by the animals they exploit.

The second use of deception is in survival, with the most common method being camouflage. This can involve matching the general colour and pattern of the environment, or can be much more specialist.

Organisms also cheat for reproductive reasons. Orchids have an astounding range of approaches which they use to get insects to pollinate their flowers, while offering no reward. One method is to lure male insects with smells and colours resembling a potential mate, like bee orchids that attract male bees. Other species create the false promise of food. One flower from Hainan Island, China, mimics the alarm pheromones and appearance of bees, thus attracting a ferocious predatory hornet.
Male
Gone_fishing  Male  Dorset 2-Jul-2019 00:59 Message #4743181
In a human concentric world, truth, (or, rather, the human perception of it), is tailored to that human's, already, preformed perception of the world they wish to see emulated before them.

A love-struck person will see qualities, (in another), that may not even exist in their object of attention.

A political animal will see truth, (genuine or otherwise), reflected in a point of view they already hold favour to.

A lazy, uninformed, malleable individual will find truth in whatever they are presented with or offered.

And a prisoner or captive will find truth in whatever they are told or shown … if it means they might escape their own incarceration.

Truth is a chameleon … unless viewed from a meaningful, Socratic, point of view.

And that means …

Accepting or taking the truth offered by others is a guaranteed way of never understanding or finding out the truth oneself.

Meaning;

You live in a lazy world.

You accept things at face value.

You believe your online news feeds.

You believe your doctored news feeds.

You are exploited by your social media service providers and their news feeds.

Ironically, it turns out that the very thing that offers humans the greatest collection of information ever, (meaning the internet), is also the greatest force for misinformation the world and humanity has ever seen.

Truth can no longer be viewed as some conceptual perfect state.

These days, truth is merely interpreted as a percentage believed by all … whether that truth is genuine, real or otherwise.
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 2-Jul-2019 04:07 Message #4743184
InSanityClaus 1-Jul-2019 15:32
---
As a propagandist for the Free Market and supporter of Regan-Thatcherite Economics - top marks.
As a scientific and statistically accurate interpretation of the facts = balderdash.

Just cast your eyes over the following extracts:

Unemployment rate 1881 to 2017 (Graph)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/UnitedKingdomunemployment1881-2017.png/640px-UnitedKingdomunemployment1881-2017.png?download

Goalpost moving

It has been retrospectively estimated that the official measure for calculating the unemployment rate was changed at least 29 times between 1979 and 1989.

Later in the decade, the government began instructing doctors with the National Health Service to find ways where they could to diagnose unemployed patients with illnesses or injuries resulting from their previous work so they could receive sickness or invalidity benefit and thus no longer be considered unemployed.

By some measures, the rate of workers receiving that benefit quintupled during the 1980s, even as unemployment did eventually decline.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnemploymentintheUnitedKingdom

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