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Climate change


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barney  Male  Surrey 1-May-2019 13:28 Message #4739394
In a recent thread I said that the Governments response to protests ect is to ban it or tax it.
Ed Milliband has suggested that one way to counter climate change is to make people pay more tax on holiday flights.
So the poor old worker who probably has one holiday a year will have to pay a lot more for it or stay at home.
Meanwhile the rich can still jet off multiple times a year. Like one of the leaders of the climate protest.
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 1-May-2019 14:18 Message #4739395
I suppose the idea is to stop people using air travel. Maybe the tax should be on 'first class', 'business class'. A nice hefty tax (just had a vision of a cramped business class passenger in economy).

I don't think anyone takes notice of Ed Milliband.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 1-May-2019 14:21 Message #4739396
I can't afford to fly anyway. Well I could, but have other priorities.
I go to France every couple of years and use the ferry.

It's about choosing what you spend your money on.
Hopefully, some of the more well off will choose to not fly so often. Climate change will affect their kids and grandkids as much as poor kids.

If you don't have money then you can't afford any holiday, even in the UK. I have heard it is cheaper to fly abroad than stay in the UK. That seems disproportionate.

I'm not naive enough to think we will ever get away from the haves and the have nots entirely, but so far, aircraft are the worse polluting and if they are huge contributors to destroying our planet surely we need to restrict their use rather than sticking our heads in the sand.
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 1-May-2019 14:27 Message #4739397
Most of the business class flights are paid for by employers and are very exorbitant compared to ordinary fares and I don’t think a reasonable extra tax would worry those flyers or payers.
Anyone wanting a cheap holiday can have one in the U.K. high isstill very cheap and environmentally friendly if that is what you choose.

It’s down to personal choice.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 1-May-2019 14:30 Message #4739398
Well actually that's the Labour answer to everything, tax it.
It's what happens to the money raised by the tax that concerns me - let's face it, the aviation industry is huge and it's not just poor old workers taking holidays. Air cargo is a massive industry too.
We can't just suddenly stop flying, so let's look at ways of making aircraft as clean as possible. Of course, if aircraft engine manufacturers have any sense (which they obviously do) they are making engines cleaner and more efficient...
barney  Male  Surrey 1-May-2019 15:09 Message #4739403
It won't stop the well off from flying.

The funny thing is over the Easter holidays 7 million people took their break in this Country, up from 4 million last year. When interviewed a lot said it was because of the attitude of the Spanish etc saying they didn't want tourists and the EU threatening tariff's on tourists, plus having to have a European driving licence/permit.
Also a lot said after last years hot weather they have already booked their holiday in this Country for this Summer.

Aircraft manufacturers have done a lot to make their planes more efficient. The 4 engine Jumbo is being phased out and now 2 engines fly farther and are more cleaner and fuel efficient.

Yeah I had to do a double take when I saw the name Ed Milliband lol.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 1-May-2019 15:20 Message #4739404
You don't have to be well off to fly.
Personally, Europe holds no attraction for me in terms of holidays, I'm a long haul type of person.

Of course aircraft are cleaner and more efficient, that's my point. If this proposed tax goes towards making aircraft even cleaner, then great, but somehow I don't think the tax loving Labour party would be up for that.
Their attitude is "well I don't like doing it so I will stop everybody else doing it"...
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 1-May-2019 15:37 Message #4739405
It won't stop the well off from flying.


No, it wouldn't. But it would be more fair than putting up economy, which is cramped already. It wouldn't help anyone. I agree that making planes less air polluting would be the way to go.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 1-May-2019 18:46 Message #4739420
Maybe we should make a bit more of an effort to enjoy the journey rather than be in such a hurry to get to the destination? Interrail's still around and most European railways are better than ours and cheaper.

I can understand why the Spanish get fed up of tourists, I get fed up of them too, so many are rude and aggressive, they leave rubbish all over the place, I really noticed it after the easter break. So please, wherever you go, be nice and pick up your rubbish and put it in the bin, not dump bags full if it by the side of the road, then we can all enjoy your holiday.
Andromeda  Female  Berkshire 1-May-2019 19:39 Message #4739426
I live in Windsor so not short of a tourist or two but they are generally well behaved.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 2-May-2019 11:06 Message #4739445
I was watching Miliband and others on Newsnight last night talking about climate change, the one he didn't mention was tax hikes, he did say, along with others, that individuals have don't pretty much as much as they can reasonably be expected to do on thier own and that we need government to do their bit. I personally was pleased that he said the same as I've been saying for years that we need to bring our housing up to scratch, to be properly insulated etc, that if we want electric cars then we have to invest in charging points, its all that infrastructure change that needs government investment. Of course we can all still do our bit, but I think we need to be a lot more thoughtful about how we do it, we need a massive project to reforest large parts of the country, both for carbon capture and for rewilding, maybe the public could be asked to buy a tree when they travel by air or buy a new car? Those with money could invest in companies that do carbon capture or green energy. Theres lots of ways we can all engage positively with this, ways that empower us rather than disempower us and cause resentment.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 2-May-2019 11:42 Message #4739447
Charging points are great, but who is going to buy all of these electric cars? Are you going to get rid of your old car and buy a brand new electric one?
My car is 10 years old, I cannot afford to buy an electric one and it's fanciful to expect the Government to pay even half the cost.
This answer that the Government must do/spend more is fine, but where do Governments get "their" money from?...
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 2-May-2019 11:58 Message #4739448

I agree with all you have written in your last post.

I watched the Parliament cross-party discussion yesterday and for once, there was no cross-party sniping, not that I noticed at least. Miliband spoke again there and the only telling bit was Caroline Lucas's questions to Gove were noticeably ignored.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 2-May-2019 12:10 Message #4739449

The Government contribute up to £3,500 from listed models. However, they are still expensive models but I have noticed a lot more Leaf's on the road (tempted to put Leaves!)

I suppose it depends on what make and model car you have as 10 years old isn't that old for a Toyota but quite long in the tooth for Fiat.
My son's Yaris is 18 years old and it's never failed an MOT, same with the one I am selling my daughter (cheap) because I bought it new in 2009 and it is still like new even though it has done 116,000 miles.

I think a compromise is to just replace with something you can afford that is one of the lower tax brackets which reflects the emissions.

I've been looking at a car to help my son maintain some mobility to keep doing some voluntary work and there are quite a few Yaris with £30 a year tax in the region of £2,500 which is probably older than you are looking for. It's just that I was looking yesterday.

You could also consider a 0% /low-interest rate on a new model like a Kia with a 7-year guarantee. I think they also do a hybrid model. I'd never fancy leasing one though, I like to own my car.

barney  Male  Surrey 2-May-2019 12:11 Message #4739450
Exactly Hierophant, the Government get the money from us. So the only way is higher tax as if we are not taxed to death now.

Electric cars are a fantasy, they will never work.
If you live in a terraced street where you never know if you are going to be able to park outside your house or a block of flats with no designated parking where do you charge it. Also if you have no drive or off street parking do you trail the lead across the pavement into the house. Great trip hazard. Vandals will have a good time pulling the leads out of cars. Neighbours plugging their cars into your leads.
The infrastructure is not there and never will be.
How many nuclear power stations will be needed to built, which the eco warriors will protest about.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 2-May-2019 12:29 Message #4739454
Oh well a Nissan Leaf is only about £30,000 so that's something to aim at. lol
They want to ban petrol/diesel vehicles by 2030 or something so there needs to be billions spent on getting us ready for all electric or whatever in a mere eleven years...
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 2-May-2019 12:46 Message #4739458
Unions are up in arms after Bombardier - the Canadian aerospace company - announced plans to sell off it's plant in Northern Ireland with the possible loss of 4000 jobs.
We are being told we must fly less/not at all, so news like this will be commonplace, we can't have it both ways...
OnlineMSE  Male  Essex 2-May-2019 13:08 Message #4739460
The thing is with battery power as any user of any rechargeable product will know is that as time goes by the efficiency of the battery begins to degrade, and it starts to take longer to achieve a full charge.
Yes the battery cell in the Nissan Leaf is a now a nickel manganese cobalt cell, which is cheaper and delivers more power than the original lithium/ion lithium manganese oxide cells, but they will still only last an estimated 10 years. And to replace them will cost an estinated £4k- £6k.
Still it gives you plenty of time to save up.

The UK Government actually intend to ban the SALE of new petrol/diesel from 2040 although that is likely to be brought nearer as time goes on.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 2-May-2019 14:13 Message #4739463
There is thought that charging cars can be done via streetlights and lamp posts, then there could be a potential to charge like a mobile phone can now charge, wirelessly?

There is also the potential for hybrids to become more efficient in self charging and having more storage. My Yaris did a laughable 1 mile, but I've noticed my Auris, which has the full Prius system has a 2 mile ability on just EV if you don't push it.

I've noticed in level roaded traffic jams, my Auris is more on electric so the 2 mile recharges by gentle braking or going downhill, even slightly.

The same principle applies in expensive e-bikes where instead of needing to be charged at home, they recharge themselves when freewheeling or going downhill.

As for batteries needing replacing, the prices are likely to come down as more people need them and if you have a looked after car there is no reason not to pay to even rent batteries. The problem comes if they change the fitting so you could replace older batteries with modern ones to run with the original system. I have that problem with my 10 year old Bosch cordless hedge cutter, the new Bosch cordless lawnmowers with interchangeable batteries have a different fitting.

I did phone Toyota before I bought the Yaris hybrid to ask about evidence on the failure of batteries and they said even counting the original Prius models, the failure so far, was less than 0.5%.
barney  Male  Surrey 2-May-2019 16:38 Message #4739469
Where do you dispose of the old electric car batteries, landfill ?.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 2-May-2019 16:50 Message #4739470
I think all car manufacturers now have a legal obligation to take back their end of life cars.

Yesterday I went on one Toyota use and they'd pay £52 to take a Yaris 2001 model.

I read that obselete hybrid batteries can be reused for domestic use alongside solar panel storage as energy doesn't need to be "parked" long, more of a buffer.
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 2-May-2019 17:06 Message #4739472
I dont think the government should be doing what the rather naive (to be kind) climate protesters in London are doing by trying (or worse promising) to make changes which with our present technology are impossible.

Jumping the gun created the problems around Brexit so we should learn.

We should be planning to cut emissions and implememnting these plans in a sensible and measured way. It is not something that can be changed overnight and sensible plans are more likely to be implemented and accepted that rash promises with kneejerk reactions.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 2-May-2019 18:44 Message #4739475
As far as I know, no ones said that you won't be able to drive petrol/deisil cars after 2030 or whenever it is, just that all new cars after that date will be electric. I agree about the problems with roadside charging in many streets. Personally I think we should be going down the hydrogen route rather than the electric one for cars, it would be easier to adapt existing petrol stations and it would get over the problems of recharging.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 2-May-2019 21:06 Message #4739483
Blimey I was just reading about Hydrogen powered cars, they cost around £60,000 each and there are just a handful of filling stations in the whole country.
That and the issues with electric power show how far we have to go...
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 2-May-2019 21:11 Message #4739485
The only answer will be nuclear.

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