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and Reconciliation

terry  Male  West Yorkshire 5-Apr-2019 09:31 Message #4738052
Can you imagine how difficult it must have been, perhaps still is, to forgive someone for injustices done to you...sometimes the most heinous injustices.

With the recent disagreements on threads here and all that's going on in Europe and beyond - think of Eastern Europe - it reminded me of the truth and reconciliation project in Africa. Could we brits ever do something like that do you think? are you a forgiving person? are we a forgiving nation? could you ever see something like that in this hemisphere?

And before you start, yes, I know there are still a lot of problems in South Africa and Africa in general...that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the idea of forgivness, of reconciliation.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 5-Apr-2019 11:22 Message #4738060
I think its a good idea, but I'm not sure it what scenario you see it being used for? I think things like that work best for resolving conflicts that are mostly over and are deeply historical, such as the attrocites of the apartied era or the troubles in NI. I think it could work in Israel/Palestine, I now the Irish were part of peace talks there at one time as they made peace within heavily divided communities where there was a long history of violence. I presume you're talking about healing Brexit divisions? I think its to soon, people arn't sick enough of it yet, people haven't suffered enough to want to have got to the stage of forgiveness and indeed what is there to forgive, having different opinions?
warmundeft  Male  Wrexham 5-Apr-2019 11:28 Message #4738063
A little closer to home perhaps.
Thinking of the Ulster border, arguably stemming from fears of Catholic invasion, initially Spanish (post Henry VIII), later French and the long history of 'troubles'.
Some would go back even further, but perhaps 500 years or so is quite long enough to hold a grudge for . . .
Fingers crossed.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 5-Apr-2019 11:34 Message #4738066
I think the UK remains one of the most tolerant, forgiving nations in the world - in relation to Brexit, I think talk of riots and even civil war if it isn't delivered is a lot of froth and nonsense.
Social media has severely distorted things, there is no doubt on twitter you can be subject to massive abuse and nasty threats from those with opposing views, but thankfully, little of it actually manifests itself into real action, in the real world...
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 5-Apr-2019 19:06 Message #4738098
So far it hasn't, but there have been some incidents like an explosive device found on railway tracks near Cambridge, whilst the device itself wasn't very big, it was big enough to have damaged the tracks and possibly caused a derailment. The device was said to have pro-Brexit stuff written on it. I think there's been a rise in incidents of racism since Brexit, I'm not saying that everyone who voted Leave are racists, but its given those who were and still are racists a feeling of legitimacy, I saw that some big name footballer is disgusted to the point at wanting out of the game because of the racism he encounters whilst playing, theres even been a rise of racism in grass roots level football.

I think as much as we can be one of the most tolerant, multi-racial and vibrant of nations, we have long memories over past mistakes and tend to be bad winners, some people are as closed minded and intolerant as others are the opposite. I think with our stiff upper lip attitude to displays of public emotion can create a pressure cooker effect and everything can sit there happily hissing away but inside its all dried up and nasty and then the valve is released and the contents hit the ceiling. It only takes a few malcontents to really stir stuff up and then people are finding themselves futher polarised and for some being drawn into things they don't really believe or support. I've met quite a few people over the years who are neither verbally or emotionally literate and have this idea that others can or should be 'made to understand' something, but when you ask how they sort of sit there like an angry steam engine, hissing with the steam coming from between their ears nearly visible. Its almost impossible to get any logical response from even gentle questioning when you're trying to understand exactly what it is they want and why, they just get angry and lash out, I think its those types who are unable to compromise, can't or won't understand anothers position and yet are unable to speak for themselves. I think it is those people who are likely to get swept along in an agenda thats not really theirs, by people who seem to speaking "their language", but who are cynically manipulating them.
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 7-Apr-2019 12:37 Message #4738180
I think a lot of what you say is true wonderhoushen, I especially liked your comment about 'gentle questioning', so much dialogue nowadays seems to be adversarial as opposed to understanding.
I don't seem able though to get out of my mind this idea of we can change things if only we teach our children differently...not for our generation, to me our generation is a lost cause and the sooner we're off this planet the better...whatever happened to all those espousing peace and love, hippies and the such...why do we look back on those ideals with such derision? why is being 'good' so 'bad' nowadays?
Is it that our capacity for tolerance has almost gone?, in which case, do we need a war or a revolution to bring it back?
Of course, it's fair to say this is only one forum with a few opinions on life and society, there are in the real world a lot of people who are kind, peaceful and tolerant, are we stirring things up by partaking in this social media and 'news' driven shock, horror, immediacy form of a profit driven you say wonderhoushen, being cynically manipulated.
barney  Male  Surrey 7-Apr-2019 14:22 Message #4738183
" Whatever happened to all those espousing peace and love, hippies and such ".

That will be the ones that set up camps in old caravans and buses etc and said they wanted nothing to do with society and capitalists but turned up at the dole office every Thursday to claim benefits.
As someone who had to work for a living I certainly became intolerant of them..

" To me our generation is a lost cause and the sooner we are off this planet the better ".

Speak for yourself.
tumbleweed  Male  Gloucestershire 7-Apr-2019 15:02 Message #4738184
The peace and love and flower power people. And the drugs, drugs, drugs.

I enjoy looking back at some of that era, but I was only 10 in the summer of love, 1967, so no drugs for me. I sometimes wonder what I would have been like if I had been 20 or something. Would I have been caught up in it all.

Watching things like Haight Ashbury, Monterey, and then Woodstock ( 69) is quite interesting and some pretty good bands etc, but there are some seriously out of their head druggies around. Most people there, by the looks of it.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 8-Apr-2019 10:42 Message #4738221
I wonder how much "the summer of love" spread out beyond big cities mostly in America? I know we had hippy stuff happening here too, but I think the rest of the country was still quite socially conservative, nothing radically changed over night, with the exception of a few bills in parliament that made things that had been illegal legal, like abortion and homosexuality. I think the media back then were no less sensationalist than they are now and probably found the most extreme examples to film to give the impression that everyone was like that. In the late 70's we still had the likes of Malcom Muggeridge on tv complaining of "the permissive society", Monty Python being on telly having to justify The Life of Brian.

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