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terry  Male  West Yorkshire 24-Jan-2019 09:58 Message #4733951
This may have been previously asked...I didn't have the time or patience to find if it has.

What is it about Mr Corbyn that you dislike/like so much? He does seem to have stirred a mix of emotions amongst people, more so than many politicians I can remember. Why would he make such a bad/good Prime Minister?
Yes, I know many have already said much about him in various threads, trouble with that is there are just too many to go through to get a good idea of just what is wrong or right about the bloke.
It would be nice to hear some rational views sooner than just "he's stupid", "he's a trotsky", "he's bland" or any of the other generalisations...I'm an expert at generalising so don't need those, I'm actually trying to form an opinion of the bloke from a more factual, 'sensible' point of view. My grasp of the English language is getting worse so sorry if I'm not explaining the question very well.
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 24-Jan-2019 10:03 Message #4733952
And before you think my own political leanings favour one view or another, I have no political affiliations in particular - I voted green party at one election, labour another, and can't remember at others, I'm trying to learn here.
tumbleweed  Male  Gloucestershire 24-Jan-2019 10:16 Message #4733953
Well terry,I think it's a bit like asking 'Has anyone mentioned Brexit at all?..If not, what do people think about it?'
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire 24-Jan-2019 10:35 Message #4733954
Brexit? A cut of meat from the breast or lower chest of beef or veal.

Ask me another.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 24-Jan-2019 10:45 Message #4733957
Personally, real left wing politics in general scare me - Jeremy Corbyn is someone who represents that.
In my view he is nothing more than a protestor, an agitator who has no idea what being PM means and requires. In his 30 odd years as an MP he has shown no desire to be in any position of "authority" in Government or opposition and has now found himself plonked in the position of leader, basically for a bit of a laugh.
Nobody, including Corbyn himself, ever thought in a million years that he would become leader - but the people behind the scenes engineered his victory extremely well and now they have control of the party.
The Labour frontbench is made up of very inexperienced Corbyn supporting MP's, because all of the experienced ones were forced out when he became leader. If and when this current Labour party win power, the extreme left will show their hand and the country will be in the grip of a hard left labour Government.
I'm starting to think about retirement, pensions and stuff, I have more faith in the Tories keeping the economy stable for me than Labour ever could.
I'm a typical working man, I'm not rich, I have no wealth stashed away, but left wing politics and union control does nothing for me at all - I understand the concept that things need to be paid for by somebody and spending on the county's credit card opens up a world of pain.
I suppose what I'm saying is, in my view Corbyn is seen as the acceptable face of socialism and many have bought into the cuddly grandpa figure who wants to help everybody, that is bad enough, if he wins power, the cuddly grandpa won't be what we end up with...
warmundeft  Male  Wrexham 24-Jan-2019 10:59 Message #4733958
Excellent Hiero!
The man is a puppet who shows no sign of political leadership potential.
Competent Opposition is essential to effective Government - obviously, but sadly lacking at present.
Green, Liberal, Labour, UKIP coalition - doesn't seem likely to me.
Judance  Female  Berkshire 24-Jan-2019 11:04 Message #4733960
I agree with a lot of what Heiro said.

I have yet to see/hear any policies/actions that JC would actually do should he become PM. He is good at protesting and name-calling but offers no alternative scenarios. He asks the PM to go away and bring back something he can vote for, when we all know he would just run that down too. Why won't he go and talk? He demands certain results before he will talk .. but that's not negotiating, is it?

I commend him as a man of principle, but I would worry if he got his hands on the purse strings.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 24-Jan-2019 11:10 Message #4733962
I did mean country's credit card, not county's - although I suppose every county has one too lol

The way it's going, we really could end up with a Labour/SNP coalition Government - that would be an absolute disaster in my view.
I can't vote for the SNP yet they could be running things in my part of the world... gulp!...
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 24-Jan-2019 12:06 Message #4733969
I'm not anti left wing policies and to be honest I don't think many of JC's policies are that extreme, I think we've become so used to a right leaning political agenda that we've forgotten its not the only way to do things. I also think the hard left thing is media fear mongering for the most part and Corbyns past has made it easy for them to find ammunition. All that being said I don't like MacDonnel and Diane Abbot has been annoying me for 35 years, between them the thought of them in government scares me. I think the whole thing with anti-semitism is an example of why I distrust the likes of Corbyn, I think he genuinely would never be nasty to an individual Jewish person, but dosen't see what goes on around him, from the people and policies around him, theres always been a streak of antisemitism in the left and the further left you go the more evident it becomes, to the point where you're not sure if its hard left or extreme right.

I also don't trust them not to create a climate where womens rights are rolled back in some kind of jobs for the boys agenda, it would start off with something like more "help" for people to stay at home and look after children or elderly relatives. Those people would be women people for the most part and then its a slipperly slope back to the 1950's, where men hold economic power over women who hold emotional power and we all know how screwed up thats left us.

The thought of the SNP as a minority stakeholder in government dosen't bother me, I'd be quite happy with a Labour government if it had a different leader, one who's more pragmatic, less divisive and less disengenuous than Corbyn. I've found his whole Brexit stance baffling.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 24-Jan-2019 12:46 Message #4733977
Well terry it is clear from your previous posts on here that you are much more for Corbyn than against.
So, may I ask why you think Corbyn would be good for the country?...
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 24-Jan-2019 17:32 Message #4733999
Thank you for the responses, they roughly matched the one my friend gave me, especially the 'grandad' comment.

Why the question?
I suppose because from what I have read of him, and the one time I saw him at a local charity event, he came across as a person who really believed in a fairer society, plus, I disliked the way everyone seemed to be putting him down - the danger there is I risk liking him because he's the trodden down underdog.
What did make me think from this thread, and something I hadn't really thought about before, is the people around him...I can understand a bit better the fear people may have with them.

Would I vote for him? I honestly don't know. I do have a fundemental difference of opinion to some regarding the tory party, and I admit to being biased and steeped in the past with that, however I do respect the views of others and it's good to see people thinking beyond today.
I think perhaps I will continue to seek an alternative to either of the two major parties.
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire 24-Jan-2019 17:54 Message #4734002
Corbyn - Swampy - Corbyn... whatever. He is just not the man for the job.

So, can anyone honestly see Corbyn in power, with Mcdonnell & Abbott by his side... oh perlease !

I didnt think so previously, but now, having had time to analyise the situation in a bit more detail, and also in retrospect, I feel that Boris, and Andrea could have worked together, and would possibly have come up with a better situation than the current one that we are in. Teresa May has tried her best , and worked tirelessly against all odds, but she has too many ' objectors' in her own court, at whatever she puts forward, and in her heart she is still a remainer.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 24-Jan-2019 18:54 Message #4734010
Yeah, one of the biggest objectors was Boris!
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 24-Jan-2019 20:29 Message #4734018

Like you, I had no previous loyalty to any party, voting LibDem at the election when Clegg got kicked out. I have also voted Green prior to that.

I was a lost voter but going through situations created by this Government, directly created by Cameron that was like a devil being let loose once the Coalition ended.

I hadn't heard of Corbyn either, but I did become more interested in politics and see the injustices creeping in and the consequences of that. I naively thought of solutions, I didn't know my solutions were "left" solutions, I'd never heard of Momentum either.

Then, along comes Corbyn, as a wildcard, thrown in by Sajid Khan as a spanner in the works thinking it would give the other candidates an easier ride and a chance to win. The interesting thing is they didn't, Corbyn not only won but won twice after the likes of Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham (who I wanted to win), and a couple of others were beaten hands down. I have respect for Burnham because he didn't slag off Corbyn but reacted professionally and respectfully.

My impression now, after taking it all in, is people don't like a heretic, one who doesn't run with the herd so Corbyn I sense was treated as an outsider because he wasn't in politics for status, but because he has passion in what he believes in. He didn't rip the system off with high expenses. I think prior to being PM, his expenses were something like £6.50?

Generally, people don't like some people who don't tow the line so Corbyn would protest, rightly so, on issues that were being overlooked. He often sees things differently and people don't get that either. Look at his voting record on the Government stats, then if he voted in a way you disapprove, you can Google why he made that decision. In EVERY case he has voted for or against something that made initial sense to the knee-jerkers, there is some logical rational reason given why it wasn't good enough. For example, he voted against suspected terrorists being jailed because he was concerned what appeared to be a good law that would appease the public, would, in reality, have risked a lot of innocent people with insufficient evidence being locked up. I don't think that makes someone stupid, only those who don't have his insight and concern to do the right thing.

Many of us have read about Trotsky in sociology and he wasn't initially a bad guy, but it think he did go off the rails later which kind of put his ideas into a negative stance. I think it was McDonnel who said he was Trotsky, but in an interview last year he said that was then, in the 60's, when some might have followed a different football team.

As for being bland. What is wrong with that. Is society now expecting a celebrity to be a good PM?
Atley was known to be bland, but was also one of the best and sincere PMs we have ever had.
I don't care if he looks like Compo. Compo was a kind character and cared more about Nora Batty and her unsightly tights than judging on appearance.

In the general election, for me, we have thousands of homeless, suicides, a strange increase in crime that just happens to coincide with drastic loss of benefits, a police force that can no longer cope due to cuts, an NHS that was starved of cash then some fool thinks an injection of cash will now provide services when thousands of staff have left. We have student nurse bursaries being taken away and now nurses have to pay to train even though working is part of their training.

The only people I can imagine would vote Conservative in again are people with no conscience or people who don't care, or people who are blind, or people with a vested interest in the economy continuing to extract from the poor to give a good return on their investments.

The facts show that contrary to popular belief, it isn't the workshy wanting Corbyn to win, but the young and educated who are sick and tired of what they have experienced during their lifetime and felt, prior to Corbyn, the

JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 24-Jan-2019 20:34 Message #4734019
...prior to Corbyn, they had no political home.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 24-Jan-2019 22:07 Message #4734027
"The only people I can imagine would vote Conservative in again are people with no conscience or people who don't care, or people who are blind, or people with a vested interest in the economy continuing to extract from the poor to give a good return on their investments."

That's me - I have a few pensions that are due to mature in the next few years and the last thing I want is Corbyn sticking his nose in because he thinks he knows best about what us workers need. I don't want a nanny state telling me what to think and how to spend my money thank you.
A labour Government ties everybody up in red tape and bureaucracy - they think they are doing us hard worker people a favour when in fact they make work harder...
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire 24-Jan-2019 23:03 Message #4734029
I struggle to think of any positives about Corbyn. When he first became high profile he was described as honest and principled but once he became better known he was just a disengenuous and lying politician backed by a far left group who want power at any price.
I find his personal friendships and alliances with so many terrorist groups and his disloyalty to the British people difficult to stomach. I don’t like his anti-semitism.
If he ever became pm at best he would be an awful leader bankrupting the country while his far left/communist cronies created havoc in the workplaces with strikes and industrial actions.
The country has shown again and again that it doesn’t want extreme minorities on the left or right and that the vast majority want a compromise in the central political ground. The Conservatives have certainly shown a move in that direction with a more caring attitude to governing. Labour began to cater for the masses of hard working ordinary people but then along came Corbyn and they lost their way.
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire 25-Jan-2019 08:31 Message #4734035
you are sooo right, Mr Quiet - well said - I have marked your comments excellent.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 25-Jan-2019 09:22 Message #4734036
You are so wrong MrQuiet,

Corbyn isn't anything extreme. He doesn't want extreme lefts but he can hardly choose if no one has broken any laws.

His "friendship" with terrorists he admits was a bad choice of words when he tried to negotiate peace by communication not bombs. His intention was to stop their terrorism which is not being a terrorist. Mrs Thatcher had done the same but in secret.

What had he been disingenuous about?
Name it. You'll find there's a deeper reason for such an apparent action. I've often been concerned but placated once I've looked into it.

Anti semitism is in all the parties and Corbyn himself had Jewish friends. It must be difficult to take lead of any party and be expected to abolish a history of hate simply because your name is now on the header of the mail.

Interesting how some are cropping up with a personal vested interest rather than concern for the poverty exponentially growing in this country.
Andromeda  Female  Berkshire 25-Jan-2019 09:35 Message #4734038
I also marked Mrquiet's post excellent.

I'm sorry JustLyn but you always try to defend all the terrible things about Corbyn but it's all plain to see. I would be worried if he was in charge.
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 25-Jan-2019 09:44 Message #4734039
"Interesting how some are cropping up with a personal vested interest rather than concern for the poverty exponentially growing in this country."

As harsh as it may seem I will always put myself and my family first, I care, but I cannot worry about everybody else to the detriment of my loved ones. In just the same way I didn't expect the world to stop what it was doing and worry about me when I was off work for 4 years due to ill health back in 2006. Incidentally, I went through the hell of ATOS under the then Labour Government, so personally I wouldn't try to pin harsh treatment from them on the nasty Tories alone.
The Labour Government left me without a pot to piss in and I had to use my credit card to live on, so I wouldn't bank on any future Corbyn Government suddenly making everything alright in that department, or many others for that matter...
barney  Male  Surrey 25-Jan-2019 10:29 Message #4734041
So I work hard all my life to build up pensions and savings and then hand it over to the less well off.
Sorry but that's never going to happen.
Yesterday a man was complaining in the paper that he and his wife cannot work because they drink strong cider all day and under universal credit his benefits have been cut In half. Tough. Benefits were not introduced to support that.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 25-Jan-2019 17:55 Message #4734053

Corbin wants to rectify the damage started by Blair and escalated by Cameron, Osborne, May. The beginnings of damage to NHS by Lansley then Hunt.

I agree, ATOS is horrendous and the Conservatives have made two of my children consider suicide.

Although my loved ones one first, they and I care about having a fair country where we do not have huge differential to the point of the mentally ill having to sleep in doorways.

Corbyn wants to invest in public services so profit goes to the people using and working for them.

You know, I don't care if he was a reformed terrorist, if he wears a teddy suit, if he makes a few errors in judgement, or if he is 90. I want someone in charge who is genuine and cares and I believe he will give our country a chance to be a leader in an alternative and progressive way.

I am waiting for my son's tribunal date to go through the hell you describe right now...under May.
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 25-Jan-2019 18:07 Message #4734054

You are being fed the exception rather than the majority.

I too have built up a pension in NHS but I am not in fear of Corbyn taking from hard workers to give to less well off.

What we shouldn't object to are supporting the genuinely vulnerable and having someone in charge who will work to reduce dependence sensitively.

You can't just assume the "less well off' are all undeserving and worthless beings who deserve to be totally abandoned. We will have bodies rotting in the street at this rate.

I met a lovely young woman last week, born from drug addicts so she has a defective heart. She's working because she had support and a helpful grandmother. But if she hadn't?
It's not always their fault.

Corbyn is after tax dodgers not pensions and savings.

Crikey, look at what May has done to pension age. Osborne actually. That is theft, catapulting women aged 60 to 68 in a few years, many now destitute and too sick to work.
In a technological age, we should all be retiring a year earlier, or at least a shorter working week.
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 25-Jan-2019 19:08 Message #4734057
No Barney benefits were introduced for people who couldn't find work or were to sick to work, but heres a question for you, is alcoholism an illness, a real physical and psychogical illness rather than a moral one? If its a real physical and psychological one rather than a moral one, then those people need support, they might not be getting the help they need, as we all know the NHS is struggling and rehab beds are in really short supply.

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