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Report alleges child sex abuse

by 300 US priests

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Male
Gone_fishing  Male  Dorset 17-Aug-2018 14:53 Message #4723326
Despite hundreds / thousands of appalling child molestation and child rape crimes being committed by The Catholic Church, its priests and associate members, the flood of depraved accounts of sex abuse just keeps on coming.

But, how come, we never ever see, (or get the impression), that this deeply embedded, depraved, culture is ever being weakened, beaten or erased from the Catholic Church or elsewhere in society?

And when we consider the latest scandals involving most international charities, (No, I’m not generalising), we learn that those intent on seeking abuse victims, were recruiting themselves into the international charitable sector, primarily, because it offered well established,, direct routes straight into a culture where sex, (underage or otherwise), was regarded as a currency that any aid worker could take advantage of.

How poignant though perverse that two entities that were supposedly in existence to help the lost, the weak and the needy, instead, violated and abused the lost, the weak and the needy instead. :-(

And let us not forget, (as the inquiry itself has forgotten), that there is supposed to be a major investigation into the child sex abuse, allegedly, being covered up at the very top of government. (Allegations that the parliamentary whips’ offices suppressed evidence of MPs’ involvement in abuse are the latest issues supposed to be examined by the child abuse inquiry … but, unremarkably, we are not hearing much about that.

So … this latest revelation, that 300 Catholic priest have abused over a 1000 children in America?

How can such, mindbendingly, massive acts of systematic, global child sex abuse be allowed to continue, seemingly with impunity, when we actually know that such abuse exists wherever wherever any kind of power over others exists in any community.

This post replaces an earlier version probably held back for including internet sources links.
Male
mancers  Male  Greater Manchester 17-Aug-2018 15:22 Message #4723337
I don’t think impunity rings quite true, the police can only act when evidence is put before them, a lot of these sex abuses were decades ago, the abused only feeling well enough to talk about it now, it has happened in all religions not just catholic, maybe it is something to do with sexual repression a lot of religions frown upon sex before marriage, also catholic priests aren’t allowed to marry denying them of a humans basic instinct, the Muslim religion is similar in its views, maybe we should ban religion from schools for a start.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 17-Aug-2018 19:05 Message #4723379
What mancers says is true, but the police are guilty of ignoring evidence when its put in front of them or they work really hard to put a case together and the CPS put the kybosh on it. I don't think allowing priests to marry would stop child sexual abuse, this isn't about sex its about power and sex is weaponised to gain power. For the same reasons I don't think making sex before marriage more acceptable in some communities would make abuse any less. Unfortunately sexual abuse is an international problem with no easy answers and the powerful get away with it far to often.

Things have changed for the better in recent years, but nowhere near enough, defence barristers can batter down a case to the point where the only thing they and the prosecution agree on the name and age of the victim. But, we see here repeated many times by many people all sorts of victim blaming, usually based on what a woman is wearing or has or has not been drinking, or how many previous lovers she's had. I've asked numerous times what is a woman supposed to wear to make her proof against sexual assault or rape and I've never had a proper answer, just a recitation of drunk women in short skirts and low cut tops "asking for it". It dosen't matter how many previous lovers someone has had they have the right to say no and have that respected. To many of the victims of paedophile rings are the sort of people that make others uncomfortable, the ones in care, the ones who have chaotic home lives, who have learning difficulties or things like ASD.
Male
Timmee  Male  Hampshire 23-Aug-2018 18:59 Message #4723866
Seems quite likey to me that the Catholic culture of celibacy and the illegality and social shunning of homosexuality in the Western Democracies for very many years. Might make the Church and attractive destination for a man with no interest in women. You'd never be questionned about not being married - when all around you being married was VERY important for a man in respectable society. If you weren't married then showing an interest in women and some prospect of your future marriage was the next best thing.

Once ordained you would have safetly from social curiosity access to limitless supplies of impressionable young men who were in awe of his temporal authority and his direct line to the wishes and ways of the Almighty.

I think an exactly similar argument could be made about the Catholic Church being a safe and enabling environment for educated men sexually interested in young girls rather than adult women.
Female
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire 23-Aug-2018 20:09 Message #4723880
I do think that people with an appetite for sexual preferences for vulnerable people, such as children and young people, do gravitate towards areas of access, like the priesthood, teaching, youth organisations etc. and the protection from the law that the church would have provided in the past would certainly be an attraction, plus anyone who complained was unlikely to be believed, due to the gravitas accorded to the priesthood.
The impact upon their targets is bad enough but it also calls into question the many decent and talented people who operate in those fields and all the good that they do.
But what I find hardest to get my head around is an organisation that harbours and covers up for these depraved beings. It's way past the time to stop keeping secrets about abuse in all areas of society, and bring it all out in the open. Transparency is the only real weapon against abuse.
Female
Clocky  Female  the West Midlands 24-Aug-2018 22:37 Message #4723989
It was never just priests. .. the nuns were just as dangerous, cold, calculating as well as blind and deaf.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nuns-arrested-smyllum-park-catholic-child-abuse-scotland-a8505406.html

The Magdalena Laundry stories are absolutely horrific ... the last one closing in the late 80'summer I think.
Shame on them!
Female
rosemarysteel  Female  East Anglia 29-Aug-2018 06:43 Message #4724426
At least it is coming out at last. How many people whose lives have been damaged have had to bury their feeling of uncleanliness and guilt. The child usual think it is their fault and are frequently told so and that no one would believe them anyway.
Education is needed into sex drives and responsibility. Self worth and life purpose. The effects of diet which is not just food, but what you read see advertised etc and cultural expectations need to be considered more responsibly.
The time has come. Twenty years ago whilst authority said it has as high as one in ten children are abused, it was believed to be nearer to one in five.
Male
omarrk  Male  Middlesex 19-Sep-2018 18:57 Message #4725662
I find it quite strange when our extreme right leaning friends cry crocodile tears for the grooming gangs victims and choose not to even acknowledge the industrial scale child abuse being carried out not only in the charity sector but also in the Christian churches throughout the world, perhaps they think it is perfectly fine for white pedophiles to carry on their sordid abuse.
I friend who works in the charitable sector in this country told me once that a children’s charity which was set up many years ago headed by a tv personality was there purely to control the bad publicity, safeguard very prominent members from the military, politics and media. Members of this charitys would speak with the victims and persuade them and their parents not to take their complaints any further either through threats or financial inducements.
Male
omarrk  Male  Middlesex 19-Sep-2018 18:57 Message #4725663
I find it quite strange when our extreme right leaning friends cry crocodile tears for the grooming gangs victims and choose not to even acknowledge the industrial scale child abuse being carried out not only in the charity sector but also in the Christian churches throughout the world, perhaps they think it is perfectly fine for white pedophiles to carry on their sordid abuse.
I friend who works in the charitable sector in this country told me once that a children’s charity which was set up many years ago headed by a tv personality was there purely to control the bad publicity, safeguard very prominent members from the military, politics and media. Members of this charitys would speak with the victims and persuade them and their parents not to take their complaints any further either through threats or financial inducements.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 19-Sep-2018 20:22 Message #4725664
Maybe some people judge by the numbers that appear at court Omarrk.
Are you saying we should ignore grooming gangs in the UK.? That was the original policy, now at least some of them are taken to court.
And you seem to defend grooming gangs in the UK, do you even acknowledge that they exist?
Male
Eljer  Male  North London 19-Sep-2018 22:00 Message #4725669
I am from the white tribe, and have many friends from other tribes, and what gets my goat is, if your from the white tribe, you can say pedophiles but from non white tribes, you have to say grooming, ive never heard so much rollocks in all my life...
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 20-Sep-2018 09:05 Message #4725674
It is disgusting that we are still arguing about pointing fingers and worried about offending perpetrators when so many young innocent children are still being groomed and raped.
Putting aside for the moment the gossip and theories and dealing with facts. Actual proven convictions.

264 people have been convicted for the specific crime of gang grooming since 2005, and of those offenders 222 or 84% were Asian.

This was a statistic in December 2017. Many cases are still being heard and more convictions have taken place. As with any crime this is likely just the tip of the iceberg. Scary stuff for kids living in those communities who we know are raped, often many times, and then threatened with violence or violence to their families to keep them quiet.
Female
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire 20-Sep-2018 09:13 Message #4725676
I am disgusted by the way some ' religions' rape and marry very young girl whose bodies have not even developed. Its an excuse for paedophilia with the name religion as the cover up.
Male
omarrk  Male  Middlesex 20-Sep-2018 16:31 Message #4725703
Nothermit,
What I am saying is all pedophiles regardless of the colour of their skin or their religion, should be brought to book and when convicted should be sent down for a very long time.
Tell me how many catholic “men of god” have been sent to prison for the horrendous and sustained industrial scale child abuse that they have inflicted on hundreds of thousands of these innocent kids over a very very long time?
These far right wing groups target grooming gangs which I am in total agreement with but I have never seen them target the church or any charity organisation whose members have been accused of child abuse,
They don’t give a damn about saving kids, they just want to play politics of hatred.

Male
omarrk  Male  Middlesex 20-Sep-2018 16:37 Message #4725704
Victoriana11,
Then you must also be disgusted by the pastors within the Morman church who get themselves and theirs followers to marry girls as young as seven or eight years of age.
Male
omarrk  Male  Middlesex 20-Sep-2018 16:42 Message #4725705
Eljer,

All pedophiles from any tribe, white tribe, black tribe and and any other tribe are evil. Lock them up and throw away key is what I think should happen to them.
Male
Eljer  Male  North London 20-Sep-2018 18:37 Message #4725713
omarrk

I totally agree with you on that one.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 20-Sep-2018 19:27 Message #4725720
I think they should have an operation before they are all locked up.
They could make them into dog chews.
Male
Timmee  Male  Hampshire 21-Sep-2018 11:36 Message #4725739
I am puzzled about what it could be that has lead Omarrk to believe that Charity NGOs and Christian Churches and other white Westerners are being given a free pass for child abuse by news organisations whilst it is 'Asian grooming gangs' alone that face investigation and criticism.

Have you, Omarrk, heard ANY news all out of Ireland about Catholic institutions and endemic abuse? Have you heard Any news out of Germany about the collapse in belief and attendance of churches amongst German Catholics? Did you hear ANY stories about disgraced Church of England clerics and their turning of a blind eye to suspected paedophiles and relocating them whilst hiding and destroying documentation and stonewalling the authorites? Did you miss the news items about former Pope Ratzinger's involvement in covering up allegations of child rape, and hindering any investigations. Did you hear anything about the scandal earlier this year involving decades of abuse of pupils at Ampleforth College? Do you wake up and open your ears and eyes ONLY when Muslims are in the news? Do you wear special glasses that block out everything around you EXCEPT any instance mistreatment of Muslims and brown-skinned people by white Westerners?

I watched the oscar-winning film 'Spotlight' again recently. It depitced the true story of investigation ( by the Boston Globe newspaper ) into child abuse by priests in Boston. It shows the absolute shock and disbelief of the journalists as they realise the true scale of it and how the Boston statistics in all likeihood apply across the RC Church both countrywide & worldwide. It depicted the Jouranlists establishing that the powerful and politically protected Cardinal Law knew all about it and did everything in his power to hush things up. It depicted the collaboration of the Boston political establishement and senior lawyers and law forms to buy off the victims and their families and bury complaints. It depicted their attempts to use every form of pressure on the newspaper and its staff to prevent the publication of their investigation results.

Have you seen that film Ommark? Have you asked yourself whether similar cover-ups and excuses might be happening in Muslim communities?
I don't know myself - but it seems likely to me that human nature, abuses of power and bad behaviours cross racial and religious barriers.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 21-Sep-2018 15:46 Message #4725759
Omarrk,

I'm still hoping that Admin will unblock us following my numerous requests, but someone could suggest that Omarrk looks at this page when logged out. (I have to do that to read his posts.)

You post factual falsehoods, as you have done many times before, (details on request). I wish people would ask you to state the sources for some of your "facts".


"perhaps they think it is perfectly fine for white pedophiles to carry on their sordid abuse"

Nobody has suggested that.


"pastors within the Morman church who get themselves and theirs followers to marry girls as young as seven or eight years of age"

Please name some Mormon leaders who do this, and the source of your information. (Incidentally, each congregation/ward/branch is led by a "bishop" and two councillors, not a "pastor". )

Mormons are subject to the same laws as everybody else. In Utah USA, which is their base, the minimum age for marriage is 18 years, though there are some exemptions for 16 & 17 year olds - https://www.ageofconsent.net/states/utah states the laws in detail, and shows minimum age of 16/17/18 in every other USA state.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) claims to have more than 16 million members. On their website https://www.mormon.org/beliefs/marriage this afternoon I had an online chat for more than 1 hour with 2 Mormons. They confirm that Mormons obey the mimimum legal age, and they referred me to their article of faith 1.12: "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

The Fundamentalist breakaway, FLDS Church, (wanting to continue polygamy), is estimated to have up to 10,000 members, and is much smaller than the main Mormon church (LDS). Although some prominent members have had heavy penalties for sexual offences such as against 14 and 15 year olds, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-Day_Saints#Legal_trouble_and_leadership_struggles onwards), and in 1953 and 2008 many children under age 18 were removed from their parents, I'm not aware of any policies "to marry girls as young as seven or eight years of age". All I could see on their website https://www.flds.org/ was how to order "Jesus Christ Message to All Nations" for $25!


"Tell me how many catholic “men of god” have been sent to prison for the horrendous and sustained industrial scale child abuse that they have inflicted on hundreds of thousands of these innocent kids over a very very long time?"

Website https://www.ranker.com/list/christian-priests-convicted-for-sexual-abuse/robert-wabash details the top 100, then you can repeatedly click to show more - I'll leave you to keep clicking to find out where the end is.
The "men of god" are also their bishops up to popes who have shielded them.
Male
omarrk  Male  Middlesex 24-Sep-2018 01:29 Message #4725905
You really have not got a clue, do you Timmee?, You accuse me of opening my eyes and ears ONLY when Muslims are in the news. If you had any decency then you would have taken note of my last comment on this issue and realised that you are barking up the wrong tree, maybe it’s about time you opened your eyes and ears.
If you have reading or understanding problems then I can help you to understand and tell you exactly what I said and who it was targeted at, would you like me to do that for you so you are not so confused?
Male
Gone_fishing  Male  Dorset 24-Sep-2018 20:21 Message #4725931
I'm sorry to have had to read Timmee's, entirely, unjustified rant directed specifically at you, Omarr. I'm also frustrated to note that, (some), other contributors to these threads continue to pursue any premise available to bulldoze an original post's intended theme into the ground before resuming a narrow gauged agenda often unrelated to a topic being discussed.

Jeff. You have some kind of a mental health issue?

I refuse to indulge you by offering any other comment.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 24-Sep-2018 21:17 Message #4725933
Beach,

I'm not aware of having any mental health issue, but I rather like to see factual truths rather than lies. I disagree very much with what Mormons believe, like all the religions that I know something about, but I will sometimes stand up for them. I am interested in what other people believe, and I will take trouble to try to find out.

Omarrk often makes factually false statements and when he could read my posts he often ignored what I posted, yet he often hypocritically criticises people for ignoring what he posts. Even when repeatedly requested he practically never revealed the sources for his lies. Usually I can back up my statements, often giving sources for them either when making them or when asked, which can help people to judge how reliable they are. Omarrk's method is often to use insults rather than research.

Some years ago Omarrk made such extreme insults against me, that I clicked some of them as "Inappropriate". Admin then blocked us from seeing each other's posts, which isn't what I wanted to happen, and since then on numerous occasions I have asked Admin directly and through his helpers to unblock us, but that has been ignored.

This is a description of the situation, not a rant. You too are often insulting, and I don't ask you to "indulge" me.
Male
omarrk  Male  Middlesex 24-Sep-2018 21:18 Message #4725934
“Jeff, You have some kind of a mental health issue”

You have hit the nail squarely on it’s head Beach.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 24-Sep-2018 21:35 Message #4725940
And there's a good example by both of you!

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