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Was sex one of God's

mistakes?

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Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 14-Nov-2017 09:39 Message #4705291
In Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." (Opinions differ on what "in his own image" means and whether God is both genders.) If all living and unborn males or all living and unborn females were suddenly killed by some illness, the other half of the population would die off, (ignoring artificial means). Isn't that risky?

Many ordinary people and prominent people in politics, entertainment, religion, cannot suppress their sexual urges when appropriate. As a direct result, numerous innocent lives are ruined, physically and/or psychologically. Did God get wrong the balance of the sexual urge and its effects? Shouldn't God have prevented this abuse and suffering in mankind? God explicitly dictated the death penalty for various sexual acts, such as Leviticus 20:13 "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Shouldn't the Ten Commandments have explicitly prohibited rape and child abuse?

There is the general problem of whether God is responsible for bad things. But God explicitly told people to increase in number. In Genesis 1:28 God told Adam and Eve "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it." And in Genesis 9:1-2 God told Noah and his sons "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands." (Does this encourage animal cruelty?)

The world is, or will soon become, overpopulated. Shouldn't God have specified a limit to population, instead of relying on diseases, starvation and wars, as happens in the animal kingdom every day?

(As usual, other translations of these bible passages are similar.)
Male
OnlineMSE  Male  Essex 14-Nov-2017 10:01 Message #4705296
..fill the earth and subdue it..
The world is, or will soon become, overpopulated..

The population of the planet only occupies about 10% of the world's land mass.
So maybe it's not overpopulated, just overpopulated in urban areas.
And the land mass only constitutes 1/5th of the planet's surface.
So maybe the seas and empty areas haven't been subdued. Yet !
Female
hannah  Female  South East London 14-Nov-2017 10:45 Message #4705303
God doesn't make mistakes, that's our job ;p

I think you might have to keep in mind that the bible was written by man, INSPIRED by the God that they knew through their own cultural lens.

Those people who can't control themselves need to learn the awful consequences of such behavior until such a time as they become conscious of God within themselves, take responsability for themselves and change their abhorent behaviours.
Female
Cautious1954  Female  Berkshire 14-Nov-2017 14:17 Message #4705335
I agree with Hannah. The bible is just a book written by man. You can believe in God but not believe in the bible.
Female
eurostar  Female  Merseyside 14-Nov-2017 19:54 Message #4705370
well adam and eve were made by god, he gave them sexual organs,,, they produced two boys...and we,re descended from them?...how?...who else did god make that had sex with cain and abel?


or is that all a lie and we evolved from monkeys like the others say?


no wonder kids are confused...lol
Male
brisinger  Male  Lancashire 14-Nov-2017 21:10 Message #4705381
Don't forget to put Yahweh and Asherah into the mix or was the divorce too acrimonious? ;-)
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset 14-Nov-2017 21:23 Message #4705384
Ying and yang. Fire and ice. Up and down. Black and white. Hot and cold. Love and hate. Life and death.

In this particular universe, (though others are available), EVERYTHING is governed by the law of ENTROPY. Entropy being the natural "breaking down of a system" whether that system is an imploding supernova, the triumph of a faulty cell, (cancer) ... or the rancid disintegration of a pork pie decomposing in a broken fridge.

And NOTHING in this world exists outside of the system I describe.

LIFE itself, by a process of compromise or agreement, encourages the orbital gravitational pull of mass ... to draw in and consolidate the elements of this particular universe, to create conspiring atoms and elements to confuse, hinder and react AGAINST the very forces of entropy that attempt to dissapate all things.

The O.P uses the phrase "Sex" to describe a miraculous process of regeneration that every life form on earth, (and possibly every entity in this particular universe), uses to fight a natural order whose only goal is to deliver a universe it wishes to see as being represented as absolute zero.

And sure. In the battle for ying and yang, fire and ice, up and down, black and white, hot and cold, love and hate ... and life and death, entropy will, ultimately, win ... and one day, many billions of years from now ... every one of the 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the 10 trillion galaxies in the universe will, ultimately, burn up their fuel, entropy to red giant, red dwarf, white dwarf or whatever before imploding as a supernova, reducing to a neutron star, a black hole and ... eventually NOTHING.

To address the O.P's, crudely simplistic, John and Jane question ...

Sex, as he calls it, is not "One of God's mistakes".

Rather ... It is one of, (bipolar), nature's greatest creations ... being the wonderful, albeit temporary, diversion that stalls and perplexes nature's ultimate goal of allowing everything in her universe to die, grow cold and cease to exist.

See?

Even nature herself has a dual characteristic.

Ying and yang. Fire and ice. Up and down. Black and white. Hot and cold. Love and hate. Life and death.

Nature herself gives ...

... and she takes also.

Sex could be depicted as representing nature's organic components playing their part in delaying the inevitable.

God did not make a mistake ... and any diety worth its salt would always ensure sex would be a part of any worthwhile universe it wanted to create. :-)
Male
mancers  Male  Greater Manchester 15-Nov-2017 13:22 Message #4705430
God may have a lot to do with sex, my ex used to shout out is name quite often, the milkman told me.
Male
Eljer  Male  North London 15-Nov-2017 15:29 Message #4705442
I think theres a lot of gay fellows who think it was down to - Adam & Steve.
Male
johnlock  Male  Essex 15-Nov-2017 18:39 Message #4705457
May the force be with you so Live long and prosper!

Regards
John
Male
iii  Male  Avon 15-Nov-2017 20:40 Message #4705472
In the words of the little man -

'Why are all the God's such cu*ts. Where are the God's of tits and wine?'

If there was a God of huge hooters who wish to suffocate men beneath a pulsating minge whilst he holds on to a glass of wine then I for one would be the first to motorboat its breasts for immortal life.

Until then - fuck off!
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 16-Nov-2017 09:28 Message #4705509
OnlineMSE,

"The population of the planet only occupies about 10% of the world's land mass."

But there are practicalities of how much of the world's land mass can be occupied, such as extremely cold areas, deserts, mountains, small islands, etc. Making them habitable and bring them food & supplies would take a lot of resources, depriving other people of those resources.

Although the rate of world population growth rises and falls, the actual world population continues to grow. Various religions are officially against birth control. Poor people have tended to have more children, and most people in the world will get poorer when resources run out. Then disease and starvation and wars will increase. I forgot to mention natural disasters, sometimes called "Acts of God", even if not as devastating as the 5 prehistoric mass extinctions that wiped out much of the earth on the planet. Did God intend such horrible ways for innocent people and animals to live and die?

When the population reaches a practical maximum, I think that people will still have the sexual and other urges to produce children. Will God prevent overpopulation in a gentle way?
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 16-Nov-2017 09:34 Message #4705510
Hannah and Cautious1954,

"the bible was written by man, INSPIRED by the God that they knew through their own cultural lens."
"The bible is just a book written by man. You can believe in God but not believe in the bible."

Cultures are different in different places at different times. Don't God's laws apply everywhere at all times? Why for thousands of years did God allow people to believe that the bible was historically accurate? Although some parts of the bible are clear what is a vision or metaphor or parable or metaphor etc so not to be taken literally, how do we know which other parts of the bible to believe as historically accurate? I think that Jesus believed in the literal truth of Genesis, (e.g. Matthew 24:37 "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.")
Why doesn't God inform 1.6 billion Muslims that the qur'an is not God's/Allah's actual words? Why didn't God make clear, other than writings about supposed prophets thousands of years ago, his true laws saying what we should do and not do, instead of the 10 (or 613) commandments including killing homosexuals and killing people who work on the sabbath day? (The two versions of the Ten Commandments, which were meant to be identical, give different reasons for the Sabbath!)
Why do so many different religions, denominations and sects interpret the bible in different ways?
God doesn't communicate his wishes very well, does he?

"Those people who can't control themselves need to learn the awful consequences of such behavior"
Meanwhile the innocent suffer as usual. In sexual matters, even if you don't believe some parts of the bible, why did God created sexual urges so strong that many people commit rape and child abuse, and why did God create physical and psychological consequences (that people cannot control) that are often devastating to people who couldn't prevent it?

"until such a time as they become conscious of God within themselves"
In many religious organisations, many people already conscious of God within themselves commit rape and child abuse, and their leaders such as bishops and Pope Benedict XVI suppressed the scandals.

"take responsability for themselves and change their abhorent behaviours."
And suppose they never do that? Do they go to hell? And does that help their victims, some of whom could have died in misery, also affecting their friends and family and overstretched social services?
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 16-Nov-2017 09:47 Message #4705511
OTB,

"Ying and yang. Fire and ice. Up and down. Black and white. Hot and cold. Love and hate. Life and death. ... EVERYTHING is governed by the law of ENTROPY"
"In the battle for ying and yang, fire and ice, up and down, black and white, hot and cold, love and hate ... and life and death, entropy will, ultimately, win"
The law of increasing Entropy does not govern Ying and yang, Up and down, Black and white, Love and hate.
Entropy increasing in a closed system is a physical law which describes in a precise way what happens as time passes, Ying and Yang etc are not.

"LIFE itself, by a process of compromise or agreement, encourages the orbital gravitational pull of mass"
The gravitational equations of Einstein (and previously Newton) are extremely accurate, and make no reference to compromise or agreement or encouragement.

"to create conspiring atoms and elements to confuse, hinder and react AGAINST the very forces of entropy that attempt to dissapate all things"
Atoms and elements, (do you mean atoms and molecules, elements and compounds?) obey certain physical laws without conspiring. Entropy is not a force.

"The O.P uses the phrase "Sex" to describe a miraculous process of regeneration that every life form on earth, (and possibly every entity in this particular universe)"
I was referring to some of the bad consequences of God's creation and intentions.
Do atoms and stars have sex to regenerate?

"To address the O.P's, crudely simplistic, John and Jane question"
I raised a number of questions, most of which have not yet been addressed.


Incidentally, for many reasons, I don't think that God/gods exist. But it is reasonable to ask such questions of believers, and it can help to clarify thoughts.

Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 16-Nov-2017 09:51 Message #4705512
Correction: the 5 prehistoric mass extinctions that wiped out much of the life on the planet.
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset 17-Nov-2017 21:27 Message #4705647
As per usual, Jeff, you are being extremely pedantic in your reply / replies, particularly when addressing my own particular post.
Rather than acknowledging the overall premise of my prose or the thrust of the philosophy or meaning of my contribution, you nit pick at the edges, ignoring the overall point you know I was bringing to the fore.
That being; EVERYTHING in the universe is, forever, in a state of being run down, dissapated, reduced, exhausted or degenerated from a state of equilibrium to a state of chaos... as expressed in Newton's third law of thermodynamics.
Sure. Newton's first law states that energy can be neither created or destroyed but ... (certainly for life on earth or in the universe), that very process unwinds or unbolts the 'systems' I referred to in my original reply to you.
In short, I was stating ... and still maintain that ... "Sex" is a good idea, (not a bad one), because, (certainly for every carbon based life form I know of), the process of reproduction HINDERS the inevitable drive towards entropy that a universe delivers to all of its environs, closed systems and inhabitants!
---
I find it quite breathtaking, though, that you upload an original post steeped in the foundation of a theological being, (God), then make all sorts of presumptions as to what a 'spiritual' God might think, do or dictate ... and then ... after making such statements as
"In Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."
"Did God get wrong the balance of the sexual urge and its effects? Shouldn't God have prevented this abuse and suffering in mankind? God explicitly dictated the death penalty for various sexual acts, such as Leviticus 20:13 "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Shouldn't the Ten Commandments have explicitly prohibited rape and child abuse?"
"There is the general problem of whether God is responsible for bad things. But God explicitly told people to increase in number. In Genesis 1:28 God told Adam and Eve "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it." And in Genesis 9:1-2 God told Noah and his sons "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands." (Does this encourage animal cruelty?)"
"The world is, or will soon become, overpopulated. Shouldn't God have specified a limit to population, instead of relying on diseases, starvation and wars, as happens in the animal kingdom every day?"

ping pong from religion to science ...
To pick me up for daring to transform a debate from a theological rant to a sound, scientific, observation is just bizarre.

---

As per usual, Jeff, you are being extremely pedantic in your reply / replies, particularly when addressing my own particular post.

Rather than acknowledging the overall premise of my prose or the thrust of the philosophy or meaning of my contribution, you nit pick at the edges, ignoring the overall point you know I was bringing to the fore.

That being; EVERYTHING in the universe is, forever, in a state of being run down, dissapated, reduced, exhausted or degenerated from a state of equilibrium to a state of chaos... as expressed in Newton's third law of thermodynamics.

Sure. Newton's first law states that energy can be neither created or destroyed but ... (certainly for life on earth or in the universe), the very process of entropy unwinds or unbolts the 'systems' I referred to in my original reply to you.

In short, I was stating ... and still maintain that ... "Sex" is a good idea, (not a bad one), because, (certainly for every carbon based life form I know of), the process of
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset 17-Nov-2017 21:33 Message #4705649
Sorry for the poorly formatted text at the beginning of the last post. (No gap between paragraphs).

I backed up my ongoing text in 'Wordpad', (as I often do), and, on reclaiming it prior to posting, I unfortunately forgot to edit it for Midsummer's forum before pressing the SEND button. :-/
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset 17-Nov-2017 21:35 Message #4705650
Oh ...Jeez ...

And half of my reply went missing.

Ah well. No matter.

I'll wave a white flag, Jeff, cos I can't possibly write all that stuff again. :-(
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset 17-Nov-2017 21:58 Message #4705657
Sorry Jeff,

I had addressed your question asking if atoms and stars had sex ... but that part seems to have disappeared!!!

Going down The Hope and Anchor now but ... I'm sure I'll be able to pick up where I left off on my return ... :-)

Beach x
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 17-Nov-2017 22:26 Message #4705659
OTB,

"you are being extremely pedantic"
I am pointing out factual falsehoods and asking questions.

"ignoring the overall point you know I was bringing to the fore"
You repeatedly closely related the second law of thermodynamics (increasing entropy) with non-laws. For example, what is the law of up and down, or the law of black and white?

"Newton's first law states that energy can be neither created or destroyed"
That is the first law of thermodynamics, otherwise known as the conservation of energy, and was not stated by Newton. (Incidentally, I'm currently studying books on Einstein's General Relativity which question that law.)
Newton's first law states that an object will continue at rest or at constant velocity unless acted on by an external force.

"energy can be neither created or destroyed but ... (certainly for life on earth or in the universe), that very process unwinds or unbolts the 'systems'"
The first law of thermodynamics does not produce the second law, which is based on probabilities.

"process of reproduction HINDERS the inevitable drive towards entropy that a universe delivers to all of its environs, closed systems and inhabitants"
Life (rather than reproduction) can reduce entropy locally, but that is exceeded by the increase of entropy from outside, as entropy refers to a closed or isolated system.

"as expressed in Newton's third law of thermodynamics"
Newton's third law of motion was that when body A exerts a force on body B then body B exerts an equal and opposite force on body A, (often stated as action = reaction, but then misunderstood). He didn't state any laws of thermodynamics.
The 3rd law of thermodynamics is that entropy approaches zero towards absolute zero temperature (approx.minus 273 degrees Centigrade). That law was stated by W.Nernst, about 230 years after Newton published his laws of motion.


"To pick me up for daring to transform a debate from a theological rant to a sound, scientific, observation is just bizarre."
It is not a rant. I asked questions which have still not been answered.
Your expressed knowledge of science of bizarre.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex 17-Nov-2017 22:40 Message #4705660
"The O.P uses the phrase "Sex" to describe a miraculous process of regeneration that every life form on earth, (and possibly every entity in this particular universe)"
Certain creatures reproduce without sex. For example, parthenogenesis is done by New Mexico whiptails, Komodo dragons, some sharks, bees, the Virgin Mary, and various ancient deities.

"Do atoms and stars have sex to regenerate?"
I meant do atoms have sex with each other and do stars have sex with each other? (Not do atoms have sex with stars!)
Male
Beach  Male  Dorset 18-Nov-2017 03:08 Message #4705665
I'd say, YES, atoms do have sex ... in as much as they congress, at an atomic level, to create new embodiments of particles and elements... at a quantum level.

I'd also remind all of us that, in just about 4 billion years, the galaxy of Andromeda is, (apparently), destined to crash into our own galaxy, (the Milky Way), to produce some new galactic entity ... given birth by the interaction.

That profound event might easily be described as sex between galaxies!

This is why I choose to treat the O.P's thread as representing a John and Jane view of the worls. (A simplistic view).

Jeff may choose to pontificate about sex and its importance, (or whatever), in some, mere, God / human perspective but ... I'm suggesting, (or reminding a reader), that sex, life, everything ... should be viewed on a far larger scale than some, mere, human way of looking at the world.

The mechanics of "sex" involves the mechanical, physical interaction of "stuff".

It isn't an occurence limited merely to humans ... or sentient or non sentient beings.

Sex is the congress of matter ... and, without it, nothing could either exist in the manner we humans comprehend existence .. and nothing would exist outside it ... unless or until we discover some new label or title for procreation.

Sure. It is possible that machine intelligence, (AI), could render everything I have written as worthless or redundant, (and I believe that will happen within the next 25 years), but, until then, sex remains a DEVICE to keep organic matter relevant and recreating itself ... in the face of an entropy that, utimately, will win the battle and reduce everything in the universe to a zero state.

Put it this way ...

Think of life, humanity and everything you know ... as a bonfire.

It is fair to say that, as long as you keep on feeding the bonfire with trees and logs you have aquired ... life may go on BUT ...

What happens when you run out of wood? What happens when you run out of logs?

The bonfire dies ...
---
Sex is a mechanism that produces wood! :-;

The act of "interacting" with an environment, (to produce wood, new life or whatever), delays the act of Entropy ...

Which is where I came in! :-)

But enough, Jeff.

You like to mix fact with fiction ...

I find your view of the world confusing and contradictory ... and won't have anything else to do with it.

Over and out.
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire 18-Nov-2017 08:17 Message #4705667
I meant do atoms have sex with each other and do stars have sex with each other? (Not do atoms have sex with stars!)

If atoms have been having sex with stars for millions of years I think the stars will be very worried at the moment and expecting an accusation of inappropriate behaviour in the past 100 years or so.
Male
Nigel_In_Devon  Male  Devon 18-Nov-2017 08:40 Message #4705669
In general I would disagree that 'God' made a mistake in creating sex. I say in general because where the existence of sex could be deemed a mistake is that some people become so obsessed with sex they then force their attention on others!
Male
capnblackbeard  Male  Hertfordshire 18-Nov-2017 10:59 Message #4705676
was sex one of gods mistakes?
i think not, but i might have been :)

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