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Bideford Town Council prayers ruled unlawful.
A Devon town council acted unlawfully by allowing prayers to be said before meetings, the High Court has ruled.
Action was brought against Bideford Town Council by the National Secular Society (NSS) after atheist councillor Clive Bone complained.
The NSS said the "inappropriate" ritual breached articles 9 and 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
The judgement is being seen as test case which could affect local councils across England and Wales.
Bideford Town Council had argued that councillors could refuse to participate in prayers.
But the NSS said prayers had no place in "a secular environment concerned with civic business".
It said the town council's insistence on prayers breached articles 9 and 14, which protect an individual's right to freedom of conscience and not to face discrimination.
The legal challenge was launched in 2010 after the NSS was contacted by Mr Bone, who was a Bideford councillor at the time.
In my opinion - Common Sense prevails - at last!
If I knew my Town Council were holding prayer meetings before business then I'd be up in arms.
What's your opinion?
Jason.
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they could just take a vote before the meeting
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I agree Jason, people should keep thier religion out of the public sphere as much as possible. I presume these prayers were Christian and not multi-faith too? So anyone who's not the same faith as those leading the prayers or who's an athiest gets it inflicted on them.
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Why cant they say their prayers in their own time? Surely it is a private thing, but should you wish to do it as a group send an invite to all who might be interested, but ensure it is outside work hours - whatever religion it happens to be.
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They have churches for religious activities, and civic halls and centres for council activities.
Ne'er the twain should meet.
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They all hold prayers, I know as I was a Councillor for ten years. I refused to attend prayers, not because I found them offensive though I do agree with the court decision. More because we prayed to msake the right decision to help the people in the city.
As the leading members of the Council were a bunch of self-seeking shysters with some strange goings on in the planning area, I refused to be part of the hypocrisy. Personally, I think the Turkish have got it right. They do not allow any religous elements in public office.
So no beards, headscarves. burkas, christian crosses or similar if you attend school college etc... or work in any public job. A clear division between secular and religious. A great law and one we should have here. No longer a need for expensive court cases. I wish!
Jo
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" The NSS said the "inappropriate" ritual breached articles 9 and 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights. "...
Perhaps I should take MSE to the human rights courts to stop them from removing my messages lol lol lol...
In all honesty how much did this cost the tax payer? We don't have enough Police officers to man the streets and when they do nick someone it takes over a year for the case to get heard, but they find time to deal with this stupidity.
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The atheists could remain silent while prayers were said and the concience of the sincerely religious would also be protected.
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Sotry I dont see a problem with prayers..
If its a ritual that is part of the procedure, then those who not wish to pray do not need to do so.
To say its is offensive is rediculous..
cg
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its daft, if they wanted to pray so what ? if they wanted to grab a cup of coffee whilst the others prayed then that would be fine too.. praying doesnt affect anyone's civil rights but it does now they can't...
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I don't see what the big deal is. If they wanna pray let them pray. Not as if they were suggesting sacrificing a goat or anything
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No one is stopping them praying.
Just not on tax payers time.
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It probably makes sense as we are taking the religion out of many occasons and events and leaving it up to individuals to decide such things for themselves.
I think more people will be surprised that prayers were ever held before meetings!
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yes, I was surprised but do they get paid ? I thought it was just expenses !
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our ancestors fought hard and gave their lives for the right to pray, and it now looks like another tradition is going to be lost, sadly.
i am an atheist so if i was to attend one of these council meetings i would wait outside whilst those who wanted to pray did so.
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Pray in church or at home, but not in council or on any other public occasion or venue. Keep politics and religion separate as in a 'secular' society.
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Nothing fails like prayer.
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Nothing fails like prayer.
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What I find offensive isn't that they're praying its that its item one on the agenda which means anyone who dosent wish to pray or who religion isn't represented by the prayers being said has to disrupt a meeting by comming in late. If I happen to be invited a religious service, say a wedding or something and I'm choose to attend and there are religious elements in it that I don't adhere to, then I will sit silently and politely and listen. A council should be for all members of a comunity regardless of thier faith or lack of it, if some wish to pray for guidance and wisdom then theres nothing to stop them doing it before the meeting officially starts.
I'm all for seperation of church and state, I don't see the link up between religion and the state has served either particuarly well.
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so this will be an all across teh board decision. no christian prayers, no muslim prayers. I am ok with that
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Even if its on the agenda no one can be forced to pray can they? Staying silent seems ok to me.
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I was surprised to discover that prayers were still being said as the prelude to Council meetings and dismayed to hear that the Council couldn't resolve this to the satisfaction of all parties concerned without resorting to the High Court.
Whilst there are times & places where I am happy to observe a respectful silence while others pray, I wouldn't expect to do so during a business meeting.
I don't think prayers have a place in a civic business meeting - those who wish to pray for guidance to make the right decisions may do so privately before the meeting begins.
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If councillors have to pray 'for guidance' to make the right decision then one has to question whether they should have been councillors in the first place - either they can do the job, or they can't!
Unless they're using god as a scapegoat - to pass the buck if anything goes wrong!
Jason.
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QUOTE: "our ancestors fought hard and gave their lives for the right to pray, and it now looks like another tradition is going to be lost, sadly."
Which ancestors were those? From what I know christianity has been the dominant religion in this country since at least 700AD when it ousted paganism once and for all.
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what harm could a simple prayer make to anyone,...~
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