Welfare reforms

Working at an advice centre in a deprived area we are very busy with clients coming into the centre who have had their ESA stopped. Most of them, I must say, are not fit for paid work, especially people with mental health problems - they are so distressed that it is making their condition worse. We put in an appeal on their behalf and the DWP are so behind with appeals clients are having to wait up to 12 months in our area to be heard. They are still paid the basic rate of ESA until the appeal is heard. The delay is not because the DWP have not prepared the case it is lack of lawyers to chair the proceedings and venues. When DLA is changed to P.I.P. (Personal Independence Payment) in April 2013 people up to the age of 64 will be re-examined under the new rules and will be scored points as they are on ESA - many people will lose this benefit.
However, if a client is part of couple where their partner works, and they do not appeal, and is NOT entitled to JSA they can often get more Working Tax credit ,Child Tax credit , Housing and Council Tax benefit and are no worse off. Client came in her ESA stopped - who fulfilled the above criteria - I did benefit calc. and she came in very upset but went out happy as she was not going to be ay worse off! She now has no incentive to get a job - just has to sign on to get N.I. credits.

Alas their are some people in this world that do commit fraud some on a big scale n some on a smaller scale,am not saying that they all do but this is why they keep changing the system and also to save money.
My son was getting ema coz he was not on the top scale he can no longer claim it their was more on this scale that the top one that can no longer can claim a penny.
I would go to say that people are now seeing what a shit government this one is.
People blame labour for the recession but it is a world one,yep they have made mistakes but not as many that these bunch of tossers are gonna make... sorry rant over.

I don't think fraud has anything to do with these "reforms", the more people they can scare off the more money they save, if they admit tha tyou have a disability then they pay you more to cover things like extra heating and laundry costs etc, if your'e on jobseekers then they can make you jump through hoops, where do they think all these extra jobs are going to come from? Who do they think will employ people who've been refused incapacity or whatever its called now?

The amount of appeals shows what a unfair and useless system this new one is, I wonder if they're actually saving money or are they spending it on defending desiscions to appeals tribunals?

It's nothing new, the "old" system was just as bad - I went through the appeals process 6 years ago, it took a full year to be heard and I "survived" on reduced rate income support of £40 per week for all that time.
I lost the appeal so couldn't claim anything back.

The system is a mess, it needs tightening up and simplifying - I had 3 medical assessments within 12 months, yet I know several people on Incapacity Benefit who have never been assessed, ever...

Obviously its the changes that have started to kick in with an already 12 months waiting list of appeals .. it will

be utter chaos eventually . with needless deaths and maybe even suicides from all the needless pressure

created on the already weak and vulnerable .. its all Heartless it really is

I heard one Lawyer say.. all thi s with disabled Benefits being cut may be against Human Rights and totally

ILLEGAL

People with mental health problems always get it the roughest as it's not always cut and dry. Unfortunately it's the easiest condition to fake.

I think alot of this has stemmed from the Margaret Thatcher Years and the loss of whole mining Communities with no prospects of work, that and more... has had a knock on effect through the generation /s from her days .. no one can find work that isnt there... and even now we have competition from overseas people looking for work here .. if there are no jobs folks become ill with worry... can bring on strokes /cancer . heart problems .. serious loss of confidence self esteem . chronic anxiety attacks and serious depression

Theres not much or hardly any Psychiatric or Mental Heath Support out there these days, only for the worse case scenario of patients ... so folks are inclined to go worse rather than better in our sad society IMHO

I find it hard to believe all these people are guilty as scroungers or deserve there benefits cut indeed they need more help not less.. ive heard of some really inhumane happenings and knock on effect deaths... as a result of whats s been creeping up daily on a vulnerable part of society and IMHO since Mrs Thatchers days

hey i wish i was faking it!

fancy car park attendant ? overqualified! cleaner? no response. Do I want to wipe peoples asses? no, forklift truck driver? no qualifications. oh and call centre ? not qualified.even when i am qualified am over or under qualified. if that doesn't increase anxiety and depression not sure what will. soon won@t be able to access this coz no funds to pay .well at least have paid student loan off!

Unfortunately whenever there is any discusion about welfare benefits it's usually submerged by the 'fraud' and 'scrounger' agenda, which conveniently labels the majority for the alleged actions of a minority, to emphase that part means supporting over three decades of attack upon the welfare benefits system - that was set up to be universally available to all. Claiming benefits has almost been completely demonised in this country, the fact is Britain's welfare benefits have since the late 1980s been some of the lowest available in Western Europe, a fact conveniently forgotten by those whose conscious or naive thinking ultimate supports an agenda of welfare abolition and consequently evermore poverty and greater socio-economic inequality for the majority.

In the end what people need to realise is a welfare benefits system, a publicly funded NHS (now under threat of privatisation), wider access to higher education (no more grants and evermore socially exclusive), affording council housing (mostly privatised across Britain) and all the other progressive social redistribution of wealth (state pensions, now we'll have to work longer for less, unemployment benefit increasingly harder to claim) were a post World War II buffer (or bribe) developed by Western European Liberal governments to stop the working class push for revolution across Europe. If bribing the greatest section of society with just enough social welfare and benefits is now seen as being unncessary (by our governments) to perpetuate their fundementally unfair socio-economic system then the alternative increasingly becomes the only realistic necessity to the wider working class which also comprises the homeless, unemployed, ex-services, retired, sick and disabled. ie those with the least to lose but the most to gain from the abolition of capitalism!

Any democratic government should support the will of the majority. It is why the electorate vote.
Like it or not, the overwhelming majority demanded welfare reform.
As for the NHS, it's looking increasingly as though if the private sector do not save it, we will be in danger of losing it - hospital by hospital. Have you seen the latest figures of the debt?
The NHS cannot remain frozen in time. So if you truly care for the NHS, I wouldn't look a gift-horse in the mouth!

GG, Have you really used the the NHS recently because my experience of neurology (and other areas) across the country the private sector is systematically destroying it... And no that's not a party political point 'cos I don't give a toss about either of them. That's personal experience.

"Any democratic government should support the will of the majority."

Then how do you define a coalition? Is that really a democratic government majority chosen by the people or a mishmash of parties to make up a larger one?
It suggests to me that the majority of people are unhappy with the lot of them.

People may be in favour of reforming the benefits system and the NHS, but reforming how? Its easy to get elected on a platform of reform saying that your'e going to make the NHS more efficient or be harsher on people defrauding benefits, but I don't think many people actually wanted the reforms as they've been proposed or enacted. Many people want to see an end to top heavy management structures within the NHS, but its the same managers that are implementing the reforms, do people really think they're going to cut their own jobs or shut down wards, clinics and nursing staff? Many people like the idea of thier GP's having more control, but not private firms being invited to bid for contracts and make money from them. Many people want people who defraud the benefits system prosecuted but not at the expense of people with long term conditions or those who are recieving chemo or dialysis being told they're fit enough to work. Let alone the numbers of walking wounded.

Maybe a better question to ask, would be why and how are so many people getting so ill or injured that they can't work?

I agree with Bris about people being fed up with politicians and that being partly why we have a coalition. How can any government be truely responsive to the will of the people without it being open to abuse or ill informed knee jerk reactions?

Friend of mine in the village who is I believe on ESA, who, shall me say is having a few issues with his mental health (life ain't been to kind to him recently) keeps getting pestered by the DWP to attend a 'restart' thingy, in the hope of finding a job, plus he's been to 3 Athos medicals in the last year alone.

Each time he goes to a medical he takes reams of reports/supporting letters from his GP & consultant, every time they pay little or no attention to this evidence, just concentrating on the 'physical' rather than the 'mental' aspect of his well-being.

On top of that the 'cheapest' way to get the the examination centre (30mls away) is to be driven (escorted) Athos won't even refund him his travelling costs, because he does not use the more expensive public transport options, I'm no expert, but asking someone with what I would class as 'severe' anxiety issues to spend 2hrs on unfamiliar public transport is hardly a sympathetic approach nor a caring one. Plus because of the time tables, he would either arrive 45mins early or 45 minutes late for his appointment.

To me it seems that the DWP & Athos (and the government) are working in cahoots to try 'massage' the figures, instead they are opening-up a Pandora’s box with little or no consideration for the people they are dealing with and in the case of my friends travelling costs, making him pay for the privilege!

And !!! Athos rake in £100,000's of pounds a year from the government.

Seems now at the job centre or DWP if they cant claim enough to keep a basics of body and soul together theyre sent of fo food parcels so very much on the increase these days ...

I never ever thought i would see it come to this in what the UK is supposedly an Affluent Country.. many are one step away from begging on the street... and i think even that now they have made or tried to make illegal.. i ask you if folks cant get any benefits how wilL THEY LIVE

Also this type of attitude of taking folk benefit will only perpetuate more crime and particularly theft as folks have to survive somehow[ not that i am condoning either of these two crimes ] but how are they supposed to feed themselves .. they may see and allotment go and rob it.. just to stop their starving to death

This is also supposed to be a Christian Country.. most of compassion has gone in our dog eat dog Society..selfish think of oneself attitude

Im so glad at times the Heads of Church have spoken out against povery in our Country , much to the very ruffled feathers of our Rich Politicians who have no idea what its like to suffer and to worry where the next meal is coming from

I Heard a Radio Programme discussion last night .. alot of folks no out there believe we are now in another VICTORIAN POVERTY AGE and a very bleak one at that.. and i think that observation is so very true IMHO

My apologies for some spelling errors in my last post above .. but it was written in haste

..but i do trust that you get the gist of my meaning ...

We have to accept the fact that the whole benefit process is under review and quite rightly too. It is clearly not helping those who it is intended too. This is the fault of the previous government.

It seems however the real issue is the length of time it takes to make what shoult be a common sense desicion. The only people at fault there are the ones involved in making that desiscion which I'm sorry to say lies soley with the beaurocrats who's numbers increased greatly under the last ragime.

"Many people want to see an end to top heavy management structures within the NHS, but its the same managers that are implementing the reforms, do people really think they're going to cut their own jobs"

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

I don t really believe the benefit is being used incorrectly by the majority... thats all propaganda to me,to deflect

the truth .. as in blame the poor, the sick the disabled
[ quote theyre idle so and so`s /scroungers/lazy unquote ] ..

Truth is the most fraudulant activity is at the top as in tax evasions/ fiddles etc .. we are not talking an odd

tenner for fiddling doing a job on the side as some folks may do on benefits to put a wee bit of jam on their

bread or to make ends meet or pay off huge depts theyve been fleeced originally for anyway by the Elite

wealthy that command 30percent interest on loans up to 100%percent interest ive seen .on loans as in shar

sharks , and top notch folk in Office or Bankers fiddle thousands or millions .only this week too i hear

...with those currently in Government...all on the backs of the poor the sick the unemployed or the

underprivildged

There's a huge difference between tax evasion and the deliberate targetting of those least able to defend themselves for political/selfish gain.

Hertsman's post voted as excelent.

TC only difference being is, they get hands on alot more of the spoils at the top..untill there is non left for

anyone else /...10 percent own 90 percent of wealth.[ all grabbed at ]

Us here are left with 10 percent thats left of finance... to share amongst 90 percent of us lot lol ...say no more


Im still in it to win it thougn .. to strike it lucky on Euro Millions lol lol

What is so galling is the us and them attitude, I worked full time in public roles till last year, nhs included.I didn't know that i would be a them, worked hard, got paid ok.It could be anyone. Who wqas it said of the nazis, I said nothing and then they came for me?