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Trump has finally

gone totally mad

Female
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
16-Apr-2020 07:57 Message #4776852
Gilpin, it was on the BBC TV news yesterday (apologies for late reply) they also discussed whether it was the start of a second phase.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
16-Apr-2020 09:49 Message #4776864
President Trump assailed the World Health Organization on Tuesday, and indicated that he will consider putting a hold on funding it.

In a media briefing at the White House, Trump twice stated that the United States funds the majority of the organization's budget. According to the WHO, the United States provided 14.67% of its funding in 2018-2019.

The WHO has been the most prominent global organization leading the strategy to stem the spread of the novel coronavirus.

But on Tuesday, Trump criticized the WHO as slow to respond to the crisis, and repeatedly said the organization has been "China-centric." He complained that the WHO "receives vast amounts of money from the United States" and that the organization "called it wrong."

"They could have called it months earlier," he said. "They would have known and they should have known and they probably did not. So we'll be looking into that very carefully."

Trump at one point said "we're gonna put a hold on money spent to the WHO," before backtracking later in the briefing and saying "we're going to take a look at it."

Trump was asked what he meant by calling the WHO "China-centric."

"I don't know, they seem to come down on the side of China," Trump replied. "'Don't close your borders to China,' they don't report what's really going on. They didn't see it, and yet they were there, they didn't see what was going on in Wuhan. They didn't see it. How do you not see it? They didn't report it. They must have seen it, but they didn't report it."

The WHO has opposed travel bans, mainly due to the economic damage they cause.

The U.S. is the single largest contributor to the WHO. Its assessed contribution is 22% of the total members' assessed contributions. The U.S. pays considerably more than the assessed contributions in additional voluntary contributions. That 22% assessed contribution has been stable for many years, but the voluntary contributions have fluctuated depending on health crises and U.S. political priorities.

The WHO is funded not only by nations, but also nonprofit organizations, foundations, companies, universities and governmental alliances. After the U.S., the next three largest WHO funders in 2018-2019 were the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the GAVI Alliance, and the United Kingdom.


I certainly don’t agree with everything Trump says but he makes some good points.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
16-Apr-2020 10:33 Message #4776868
Its all a load of the usual scapegoating bollards from Trump, its easy to be wise after the event and hindsight is always 20/20 vision. The WHO only gives advice based on science, science often takes a while to catch up with stuff thats happening on the ground as things have to be tested and advice isn't an order, as an international body it has to try and satisfy everyone and stick to its core founding principles. The WHO has been on Trumps target list of international organisations to stop funding for a while now and America is behind on its payments, this just gives him more of an excuse to stop funding it, I notice he wants to start a new body a WHO.2 which presumably he or America will have more control over?

People are still worried and not coming forward in the USA because they're afraid of the bills who will pay and how, other hospitals are laying off staff and closing because people now don't want the cosmetic procedures that so many of these clinics rely upon for their income.
Male
Colonel_Blink  Male  Buckinghamshire
16-Apr-2020 10:48 Message #4776872
NoSaint. An interesting post.

Wonderoushen. I agree there is some scapegoating by Trump but no more than all the other countries around the world.
As you say it is easy to be wise after the event and we will see a lot of wise people appearing after the event to impart their wisdom.
The WHO gives advice based on science as we have also done listening to our own scientists here in the uk. Advice from WHO is fairly generic and cannot be applicable to each country in the same way. It is advice to be listened to by our own scientists with all information from all sources pooled but each country can only do what it decides is the right course using that information.

I don’t know enough about US actions to judge if Trump is right or wrong but his blustering forthright manner will always put his decisions in doubt. Here in the uk the only people who seem to have every answer to every problem are the numerous scientific and medical experts on social media. Their talents are wasted in their day jobs.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
16-Apr-2020 11:38 Message #4776880
Vic.

Well one of them got it wrong. 300+ to me sounds very unlikely. Yesterday's figure (mew cases) is said to be 46. But 1 death.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire
16-Apr-2020 12:09 Message #4776889
I don’t know enough about US actions to judge if Trump is right or wrong but his blustering forthright manner will always put his decisions in doubt. Here in the uk the only people who seem to have every answer to every problem are the numerous scientific and medical experts on social media. Their talents are wasted in their day jobs.

We are all “rocket scientists” when we can make hypothetical decisions from our armchairs with no consequences.
Male
CircusMaximus  Male  North Yorkshire
16-Apr-2020 17:32 Message #4776918
Trump has always been mad. The surprising thing is that after all his time in office he hasn’t managed to hide it.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
16-Apr-2020 18:48 Message #4776922
Of course I can do rocket science, I could do anything if I had the tools and knew how!

CB, Even the daily wail were having a go at him in an opinion piece! Maybe you should look at the interview he gave a couple of days ago.

I think many people are constitutionally capable of coping with a "don't know", they have to bully, rant and then come up with some homespun wisdom thats based only on their limited understanding of the given situation.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire
16-Apr-2020 23:46 Message #4776951
Trump is funny, he is always right.
If he does not like a question, he just chucks some abuse out.

Bit like a successful version of Michaelt.
Female
Bewildered  Female  Norfolk
17-Apr-2020 08:55 Message #4776966
Humm wasnt it the WHO who claimed it couldnt be transmitted person to person...

As for testing.. ok so I am tested today, negative, then tomorrow I am contaminated , do we test every day?
my colleague self isolated for 10 days before being tested , was neg, back to work next night. That night he worked with someone who is now very poorly with Covid, I worked with this person also
Female
Greencare  Female  Berkshire
17-Apr-2020 08:59 Message #4776968
The best advice is:

Stay indoors wherever possible.
Keep away from others.
Wash hands regularly.

The advice from day one is as relevant today as it was then.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
17-Apr-2020 09:16 Message #4776972
We are all “rocket scientists” when we can make hypothetical decisions from our armchairs with no consequences.

No we are not all the same class of rocket scientist.

A trained scientist is supposed to know from where they get their research, do their research, and understand which research is authentic and well conducted.

Trump is more of a loose cannon and makes it up the way he's like it rather than how it is.

Also, with social media, there are many unwelcome consequences of uneducated opinions that go viral, as in the fake news or just idiot news.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
17-Apr-2020 11:15 Message #4776996
The point of testing is to see how far it has spread in the general population, anyone testing positive can isolate themselves reducing the number of people they infect. The verbally unwieldy part of test test test, is contact trace, contact trace contact trace, this goes along side testing and tries to find everyone an infected person has been in contact with face to face, it needs a lot of honesty from the infected person and a lot of people to trace contacts and then arrange for them to be tested.

The WHO were unsure for while about human to human transmition, so they said so, I seem to remember they also said it was possible and then that it was likely, before they had clear evidence, this is what an evidence based approach is. People say they want evidence based medicine and approaches, but it seem that many do not understand what it is and that theres a huge difference between evidence and annecdote.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Apr-2020 11:31 Message #4777000
But that's my problem with this testing thing, you say "anyone testing positive can isolate themselves reducing the number of people they infect" well isn't that what this lockdown is designed to do anyway? Unless a positive person isolates themselves completely with no other people, then what we are doing is the same.
That's why I don't get how Germany have apparently suppressed it so well simply by mass testing - are they carting the positive result people off to special isolation areas or are they simply telling these people to stay at home with their families unless they are seriously ill?
I've not been able to find that out anywhere.....

Male
SQL  Male  Devon
17-Apr-2020 11:50 Message #4777001
Hierophant - 17-Apr-2020 11:31

But that's my problem with this testing thing, you say ...

I think you will find that in Germany they did the testing immediately it was obvious that the pandemic was starting unlike the UK and other countries who prevaricated for weeks. The delay of weeks when the virus is so contagious allows hundreds or thousand of infected individuals to roam freely and pass on the virus to the rest of the population.

SQL
Male
Colonel_Blink  Male  Buckinghamshire
17-Apr-2020 11:55 Message #4777002
Testing? Lockdown? Distancing? That’s the problem with an unknown virus which is dangerous and invisible. Experts, both here and around the world, differ on the best action to take.

Italy has done a similar amount of tests to Germany but the number of deaths are vastly different. Spain has had a much stricter lockdown but the deaths soared.
Of course if any of these three countries had done things differently they could have had fewer deaths or they could have had many more deaths.
You look at a statistic and say 20,000 deaths they must have got it wrong but had they have taken different action the death toll could be 40,0000 so who’s to say.

I would certainly be focusing on Germany to see if they have done something very different or if they have just been fortunate.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Apr-2020 12:01 Message #4777003
Yeah but where do you start testing? In a population of 80 million or whatever Germany has, testing 100,000 in one day isn't going to stop it spreading is it? You start testing in Berlin and the virus, which you say is so contagious, is spreading unchecked elsewhere how's that helping?
The genie is already out of the bottle...
Male
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire
17-Apr-2020 12:16 Message #4777004
Germany have been mentioned a few times on here.......and in some aspects they are doing well with it all....but in others...they are doing worse than we are for instance....

I put up some figures the other day.....taken from the worldometers site.....that showed the better/worse facts...

The worldometers site seems fairly reliable.....figures are just figures....and some sites may have varying figures....but worldometers is gathering the stats of what is reported to them....

Germanys testing has been more than most countries.....Currently second in the world.....at 1.728,357

Their rate of virus cases per 1 million population is worse than ours though.....at 1,650.......ours is 1,519

Other stats are there.....for all countries.....

Rather than me type them all out.....people can look for themselves if they so wish.....
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire
17-Apr-2020 14:31 Message #4777010
Germany was more proactive plus more resources to enforce and respond.

I read up on some of it yesterday but I was tired and could only do half a job posting what I found.

You can look it up if you like, but for a start, they have a much bigger police presence, whereas UK have spent many years running our down. They had 500 police just in Berlin stopping people going in parks etc.

Then if people did get sick, they had a head start on having so many ventilators per head of population, they could offer the UK some!

So much better prepared it seems.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire
17-Apr-2020 15:15 Message #4777013
Testing is only part of the answer, what testing does is allow those who analyse the results to better inform those who advise those who make decisions, then, along with the testing limiting social movement (lockdowns/social distancing etc.) can limit the spread to a better degree. Testing is just a part of the whole and where many countries/people/populations have gone wrong is to not heed the basic advice given at the outset, the basic common sense option of limiting our contact with other people.
People can blame China, blame their government, blame anyone, but the thing about a virus is it can't be seen, so to avoid getting it, stay away from others. I really don't see the difficulty....other than the human body has to either develop it's own immunity or we have to manufacture a vaccine or such; this is going to be affecting mankind for a long time yet, especially as we seem incapable of staying away from each other.

Perhaps the best option all along was to use the 'herd immunity' option and accept that deaths would be high?
Male
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire
17-Apr-2020 15:31 Message #4777017
As far as I'm aware, the term 'herd immunity' was hardly ever used before all this....I certainly didn't used to hear it very much anyway.....Perhaps occasionally for certain things......but never as much as suddenly it became 'the saying of the day'

We get told all the common sense things with flu, for instance......Get your flu jab.....Any symptoms of flu, stay at home, take your medicine....don't cough and sneeze in peoples faces.....etc etc etc...

Yet, supposedly there are many many more flu deaths than the corona deaths......many more.....So where are they?....Has anyone died of flu since this thing has been going on?......The stats are not very easy to find......

The stats for Coronavirus, however are everywhere and anywhere......

The lack of a vaccine is one of the main things with the virus.....Yet a vaccine is there for Flu....and Flu normally kills loads more people.......It's all a bit weird.....Sinister maybe.....
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Apr-2020 17:11 Message #4777020
Unfortunately, during this crisis the media (and others) have seized upon certain things that scientists and politicians have said and added bits, taken bits away and created something new.
Herd immunity was talked about by Patrick Vallance right at the start and he stated that about 60% or more of the population would need to become infected to achieve it. The media jumped on that as a declaration of govt policy and that gets bandied about constantly ever since.
Boris said in an interview on This morning that faced with this virus you could "take it on the chin" and let it play itself out OR limit it's spread by lockdown measures and that's what we intend to do.
Again the media jumped on the "take it on the chin" bit and ever since that has been thrown back at the govt when people die - conveniently ignoring the fact he went on to say lockdown measures would be govt policy....
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire
17-Apr-2020 19:00 Message #4777028
There are many issues Hiero, Germany's figures are reported differently.
For instance in this country for March, 91% of deaths (C19), were people with underlying health conditions.

In some countries, not all of these are recorded as C19, but cause of death is the underlying condition.

All countries are different, in Germany the average age is young , so good natural resistance to C19 in the population.
C19 does not affect everyone the same, for instance Male/Female, there also seem to be racial differences.
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd
17-Apr-2020 19:04 Message #4777029
I think Germany was as Lyn said better placed, they have a far better resoursed health care system than we do, they spend 50% per head of population more than we do, they have world class labs that do lots of testing for a variety of things. Our govenrment stopped its test and trace thing right when the virus was ramping up here, why on earth did they let the Cheltenham Festival go ahead and an international football match when they knew that other countries were stopping them and many things were cancelled by the organisations themselves without government advice?

I'd heard of herd immunity before all this, from concerns about the low numbers of children being vacinated, it might still be about 80% of children being vacinated but you need more like 95% to give herd immunity for something like measels.

I do think the government need to start telling us what their plans for leading us out of lockdown are, I think we all understand the need for it, but I think if people could see a light at the end of the tunnel rather than the daily death toll it might make it a little better. Also there must be an increasing number of people who are recovered from it now, theres a lack of clarity about them, how much immunity do they have, can they catch it twice, most of those people will not have been tested, they've had it fairly mildly or not bad enough to go to hospital, I'm starting to find this more and more chaotic as time goes on.

Banks arn't giving the loans promised by the government to help small busiinesses, especially those in sectors that wouldn't normally get loans anyway, I know this policy was made up on the hoof and that there were bound to be some problems. I still think its a good scheme, but banks need to up thier game and pull thier fingers out, they can't use the same criteria for these emergency loans as they do for non emergency business loans. I wonder if the banks realise how much ill will is out there towards them because of the financial crash of 2008? Iwonder if that ill will will come to roost on them by the bucket load now?
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia
17-Apr-2020 19:20 Message #4777034
Best not mention that the majority of healthcare in Germany is private, don't want to rattle certain cages do we?
I sound like a cracked record but I still don't get the mass testing thing, according to the website tumbled mentioned, Germany has tested 1.7 million people (one time each I presume) out of a population of 83 million.
I still don't see how that has led to so few deaths....


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