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Election Campaign 2019

Highlights 30th October

Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 7-Nov-2019 21:42 Message #4761820
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/3214999/Financial-crisis-David-Cameron-blames-Gordon-Brown-for-Britains-broken-economy.html
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 7-Nov-2019 22:14 Message #4761821
I must say Maglorian, as another newbie (from Yorkshire no less) you've settled in right proper...
Male
FirmButFair  Male  North Yorkshire 7-Nov-2019 22:30 Message #4761823
Hahahahahahaha ............... newbie hahahahaha ..........
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 7-Nov-2019 23:30 Message #4761834
Today 7/11/19.
Ian Austin former Labour MP, says people should vote Conservative, he claims Corbyn is not fit to be PM.
Both Labour and Conservatives announce massive spending plans.

Jacob Rees Mogg says nothing at all today, he is hiding, but still intends to stand at the election.
Why does he not use his common sense, and resign?
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 8-Nov-2019 06:17 Message #4761836
It was Gordon Brown who dealt with the 2008 crash.

Some people lost a lot of money in savings and pensions and will never forgive Labour for their catastrophic handling of money!
Male
SQL  Male  Devon 8-Nov-2019 10:01 Message #4761848
Tony Blair: May 1997 to June 2007
Gordon Brown: June 2007 to May 2010
David Cameron started as Prime Minister in May 2010

The Financial Crash was during October 2008. This crash was spectacularly rapid, the lead-up was days rather than weeks. Continually blaming other administrations for problems does not impress me at all.

The main reason for the impact of crash in the UK is now generally acknowledged to be poor regulation of the domestic banks in the UK. Bankers, if given the freedom, will always gamble with other people's money.

SQL
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 8-Nov-2019 10:30 Message #4761852
SQL, don't forget that it was an international crisis that started in the USA and led to banks all over the world collapsing. I think it was an incredibly difficult desicion do you let banks fail or do you bail them out? Brown chose to bail them out at a huge cost to the public purse, I think it was that rather than irresponsible spending that gave the Tories permission to go on an austerity rampage through thier usual targets. 'We're all in this together' Cameron said, funny how in that period the rich got richer and the poor got significantly poorer. I do agree though that poor regulation of the British banking sector played its role too, but then I also believe the "City" had governments over a bit of a barrel, threatening to move out if they were more regulated. The "City" being such a huge revenue generator its understandable that successive governments were were wary of regulation, there was a huge opportunity to bring in far more regulation after the crash when the sector would have been on the back foot, but that was missed. I also think share sales of the bits of banks that ended up in public ownership shouldn't of happened and certainly not when they did, we should of hung on to them until the money they borrowed was paid back with interest at least. As a major shareholder the government was in a position to make sure regulation were kept and to improve them.

Rather than refight old battles though, we need to focus on now and the mess that happening, everything seems to be being weaponised, old scores seem to be being settled in the most damagingly public ways. Its not allowing room for scrutiny of the policies which will be landed on us by whatever party or parties get in. The motto for this election seems to be 'I've got a bigger Magic Money Tree that you'.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 8-Nov-2019 10:51 Message #4761858
Agreed wonderoushen. An opportunity was missed to rein them in as they did on the Continent. In Iceland corrupt bankers were prosecuted - here they stuff the Conservative party's pockets with cash and go on collecting their bonuses.

I have no soft spot whatever for New Labour but it's clear now that Brown was just holding the US sub prime grenade when it exploded. In any case that has nothing to do with this election except insofar as Jeremy Corbyn wants to clamp down on the banking sector and not before time - another reason the US want to stop him getting to No 10 and we should be voting for him.

Jeremy Corbyn is no more anti-semitic than my cats are vegan.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 8-Nov-2019 10:54 Message #4761859
HotOrWot have you noticed what the Conservatives have done to the national deficit and pensions since 2010? It was like putting terriermen in charge of fox cubs.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 8-Nov-2019 11:00 Message #4761860
"The motto for this election seems to be 'I've got a bigger Magic Money Tree that you'."

Ha ha indeed, the irony isn't lost on me that all these anti-capitalists are happily proclaiming they are going to borrow, borrow borrow in order to make this country great.
Even the Greens are going to take out a personal loan of billions of pounds.
Andrew Neil tied the Labour finance person in knots yesterday, and quite worrying for all you pension holders (like myself) that when Labour compulsorily buy utilities to re-nationalise them they won't pay in cash but give Government bonds instead. Hmmm!.....
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon 8-Nov-2019 11:07 Message #4761861
Andrew Neil tied the Labour finance person in knots yesterday, and quite worrying for all you pension holders (like myself) that when Labour compulsorily buy utilities to re-nationalise them they won't pay in cash but give Government bonds instead. Hmmm!.....

Labour led by a terrorist appeasing, anti-Semetic leader who cannot make any decisions for himself led into a Stalinist disaster where the state rules with an iron fist is not something I would welcome.
Male
Maglorian  Male  North Yorkshire 8-Nov-2019 11:15 Message #4761863
Hierophant thank you. I'm no stranger to forums or political discussions. We don't use "right proper" idioms or colloquialisms in York. The City was bastardized by invaders long long ago. Look forward to debating with you on future topics and avoiding slander or libelous interchanges.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 8-Nov-2019 11:19 Message #4761864
I'm sure you're not, you can slot in anywhere at any time like an old hand.
On your other points, I can't promise anything I'm afraid...
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 8-Nov-2019 11:22 Message #4761865
Hierophant I didn't see the interview but I have noticed how the Labour interviewees are bowled all the yorkers. A more edifying exercise would be to read the manifestos and then the critiques from independent economists - again the proposals are nothing new but are mainstream economic policy in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland and the Netherlands.

Labour's spending plans are fully costed and begin the pressing shift away from GDP to economics that start aligning us with the need to end destroyer capitalism. Old style economic growth essentially consists of asset stripping the planet, destroying our own life support system and trashing it with waste and pollution. 11,000 scientists around the world and every credible report says that climate change is here. Even if you don't care about koalas or Emperor penguins, we're currently exceeding the Earth's carrying capacity by around 64% because growth demands an ever increasing acceleration of resource depletion and consumption. "Consume less, go vegan, travel less, waste less" is not a very appealing election message to a mass population accustomed to being bribed with bread and circuses, and it's a brave candidate who'll deliver it, but this shift to what George Monbiot describes as "public luxury, private austerity" is unavoidable if we want our kids to survive. The first step is to vote for the party that acknowledges that we don't have a choice any more and Jeremy Corbyn's green credentials and close working relationship with Caroline Lucas is our best hope here too.

Male
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire 8-Nov-2019 11:36 Message #4761866
One of the Climate/Environment things that doesn't seem to be addressed very much is the abundance of fireworks that have been whizzing around for the last week, and this coming weekend....and beyond...it'll soon be the Christmas ones....and New year goes Worldwide crazy.......

That's all ok though.....it seems.....Destroying the atmosphere for enjoyment...
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 8-Nov-2019 11:44 Message #4761869
Andrew Neil bowls yorkers to all participants, he ripped the Tory person a new bottom over the Conservatives record and plans so don't worry about bias in that regard.

I get all the climate change stuff, but telling us that me must stop doing something without presenting a credible alternative, is the easiest thing in the world. Bringing London to a standstill by protesting is a doddle.
Stop flying, stop driving a fossil fuelled car, stop eating red meat etc etc sounds easy, but offer credible answers and alternatives and people will listen.
Look at how many aircraft are in the sky at any one time, are they all full of holidaymakers? Even, if they are and we stop them, what do all those people who earn a living from the associated industries do to earn a living?
Tell me how I buy an electric car at £30,000 and how I charge it up when I live in a flat? I need transport for work, I work until 10 or 11pm so I need it to be reliable.
The answer seems to be Government should pay for it all, and where do Governments get their money?...
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 8-Nov-2019 11:46 Message #4761870
Labour led by a terrorist appeasing, anti-Semetic leader who cannot make any decisions for himself led into a Stalinist disaster where the state rules with an iron fist is not something I would welcome.

In a nutshell.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 8-Nov-2019 13:04 Message #4761875
Hierophant, I agree it's monumental and it's everything from fireworks to the war machine.

We've got to create a brand new economic model and we've got around eight years to do it. Honestly it seems an impossible task with unsustainable growth still at the top of virtually every political agenda but do we have any choice except to try even now at one minute to midnight? Maybe the first step is finally acknowledging that the Greens and others who have been trying for decades to sound the alarm are not tree huggers, the great unwashed or naïve hippies tripping over their own dreadlocks as they run in circles on the fringe of society but were actually right all along and fell victim to the same corporatist tanks trying to run over Jeremy Corbyn. It's time to start listening to these people because the business as usual capitalism offered by the Conservative party that has brought us poverty, stagnation, injustice and decline is also going to bring us environmental catastrophe.

The problem is incredibly complex because it means backtracking from globalism, breaking the corporatocracy that controls global politics and the marketing of consumption as recreation and a badge of success. The solutions are going to be complex too but we have to start somewhere and I think that somewhere is realignment of public opinion to get people "woke" and mobilise them to be part of the solution and not the problem - this is the legacy of the ER protests IMO.

Our power as consumers is huge but as voters it's even greater. As I understand it, current Labour proposals are to start with relatively easy wins that again follow our European neighbours: investing and creating jobs in non fossil fuel energy, public transport, green technology and R&D, tackling cruel and destructive industrial meat and dairy production, educating us to stop buying what we don't need and paying more for things we do need that will last, fostering local economies to reduce air miles, weaning us away from car dependence, new indicators of success based on quality of life rather than just wealth.

I'm not particularly patriotic but if it's one thing we've shone at over the centuries it's been talent, innovation and rising to challenges. We are a resilient and resourceful nation and I do think we could be world leaders again, not this time in Imperialism and exploitation but in brokering peace and safeguarding the future. I don't think we're going to get any of that from Boris Johnson's Conservative Party.
Male
Sleeper59  Male  Northamptonshire 8-Nov-2019 13:07 Message #4761876
Politic and religion normally brings out the worst in people. With that said I always believe in the democratic process that this country holds dear. I had also believe that the people of this great country should also have a say in how this country is run and I find it very dishearten that, that right is taken away by people that tell us on a daily basis how much they believe in democracy and call themselves Liberals. The truth is they are really fascist at best these unti-democratic MP should not expect any sympathy a should be thrown out from all parties before they leave people with n other option than to start riots.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 8-Nov-2019 13:23 Message #4761877
*investing and creating jobs in non fossil fuel energy, public transport, green technology and R&D, tackling cruel and destructive industrial meat and dairy production, educating us to stop buying what we don't need and paying more for things we do need that will last, fostering local economies to reduce air miles, weaning us away from car dependence, new indicators of success based on quality of life rather than just wealth. *

With all due respect, reading that just proves my point, it's words, but they are meaningless - it looks like you have copied and pasted some Green party manifesto.
It's one thing telling us what you think we must do, extinction rebellion and the rest are great at that, tell us how?
Tell us how we create these jobs? Jobs doing what exactly? How do you "wean us away" from car dependence. What do these people live on whilst their old polluting jobs are banned and new "green" jobs are being created, apparently people waiting a couple of weeks for Universal credit is poverty inducing.
We've got 8 years and you don't have a single credible answer, people like you tell us we MUST do stuff then wash your hands of it because you think you've done your bit and it's up to our failing Government to provide (and pay for) solutions...
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 8-Nov-2019 13:38 Message #4761879
before they leave people with n other option than to start riots.

Nothing worse than an undemocratic mp. So let’s go out and murder a few people, burn their shops, frighten the elderly. Yes rioting can be so much fun ... if you’re a complete knobhead.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 8-Nov-2019 13:41 Message #4761880
We’ve got 8 years and you don't have a single credible answer,

Being in opposition or in any position of making easy promises or pointing out the obvious to those naive enough to listen is not a problem.

Handling reality can be more difficult.
Male
tumbled  Male  Gloucestershire 8-Nov-2019 13:46 Message #4761881
People will be starting to call me Tumble Thunberg soon......

From Terrapass.com :-

Fireworks cause extensive air pollution in a short amount of time, leaving metal particles, dangerous toxins, harmful chemicals and smoke in the air for hours and days. Some of the toxins never fully decompose or disintegrate, but rather hang around in the environment, poisoning all they come into contact with. Exposure to fine particles, like those found in smoke and haze, is linked to negative health implications, such as coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath, asthma attacks and even heart attacks, according to the EPA. People at greatest risk for problems are those with heart or lung disease, older adults and children.

From Theconversation.com :-

Fireworks can lead to substantial air pollution problems. There are well documented examples from cites around the world. In Spain, metal particle pollution from Girona’s Sant Joan fireworks fiesta can linger in the city for days. Across India’s cities, the annual Diwali fireworks cause pollution that is far worse than Beijing on a bad day.

From openaccessgovernment.org :-

For example, it has been reported by the Environmental Agency that ‘during the Millennial celebrations in London the emissions from one 15-minute, 35-ton firework display equalled 120 years of dioxin emissions from the SELCHP waste incinerator’. Meanwhile, ‘the Environment Agency estimates that in a year, the whole Energy Recovery industry produces about one-sixth of the dioxins produced by one 5th November Bonfire Night’.

That'll do for now....
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 8-Nov-2019 18:37 Message #4761903
Hierophant, I think if I got into that kind of detail I would be even less popular than I am currently but, apart from obviously voting for people who want to find a solution to the problem rather than just making money from it, the single most significant thing any of us can do individually is to go vegan - that's now beyond dispute.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 8-Nov-2019 18:38 Message #4761904
I agree about the fireworks by the way.


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