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Election Campaign 2019

Highlights 30th October

Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 5-Nov-2019 07:48 Message #4761528
I find myself with mixed feelings of begrudging admiration and pity for people like TheJewessRebecca who hold such polarised views.
We see it so often with far left Corbyn supporters, they have bought into the man totally and they all trot out the exact same message - NHS privatisation, poverty, nasty Tories, trickle down, Tory liars etc etc.
It is like these people are brainwashed, they have absolutely no ability to be flexible and even consider an alternative - it is scary how blinkered and rigid in their ideology these people are. Labour good, Tory bad, it's as black and white as that with them. If you notice, there is never any mention of other parties or the middle ground. I would suggest it's you old left/right dinosaurs who need to catch up with the youngsters and realise politics has moved on.

It's actually laughable these people believe the Tories are deliberately killing people, yes they are killing us poor people and stepping over our rotting corpses so they can drink wine and fly around in helicopters.
Michael tells us the NHS will be privatised totally by the Tories, it's been going on for 40 years but will be completed soon apparently. TheJewessRebecca tells us that if the Tories win the election we can kiss goodbye to everything that makes Britain decent. Strange views indeed, considering the Tories have been in power for almost ten years, that seems to imply Britain has been decent under them.
Where do you people get fed this stuff, do you go to night classes or something - fair play as you all trot out the exact same stuff.
Come on Nickolette, you usually pipe up with some pithy comment at times like this...
Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 5-Nov-2019 10:12 Message #4761548
I didn't find much to disagree with in TJR's post, trickle down dosen't work, the NHS has never been safe in Tory hands and the behaviour of the council towards Grenfell families has been a disgrace. But what would it take for me to back Corbyn, quite a lot actually, its not so much the policies I disagree with, but the attitude of punishment that I feel from Corbyn and those around him, Corbyn may be a lovely genuiine person, but that dosen't make him a leader. To put through such policies as Corbyn wants which may not be radical to many countries but seem to be so here, you need to be a leader who is strong without being messianic and can carry a large majority of the country with them and make them see the benefits for all. Most of all I'd like to see Corbyn say clearly what his position on Brexit is, the current one is to muddled and woolly.
Male
terry  Male  West Yorkshire 5-Nov-2019 10:27 Message #4761551
To be fair Hierophant, that sounds exactly like your comments in relation to anything labour/corbyn/socialist...you too also churn out the same old rhetoric but from the other side.

What I do think many of us agree on is, this lot, whichever side they're on, are pretty rubbish and we need change.
politics has moved on? I'm not sure about that, the arguments being used nowadays seem much the same arguments that used to happen many, many years ago.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 5-Nov-2019 10:44 Message #4761560
I would disagree in as much as I am not welded to one leader and their policies come what may. I am anti Corbyn and anti socialist but that doesn't mean I am totally opposite and refuse to consider any other way.
Like I said, Corbyn supporters seem to see things starkly as left is good, right is bad and they refuse to even consider anything different.

Labour's Brexit policy is muddled to say the least.
Their position seems to be negotiate a new deal and put it to the people - they have said that no-deal must be off the table at all costs.
So why did they, as chief architects of the Benn act, only insist Johnson ask for a 3 month extension when their policy is as stated above.
Three months is nowhere near long enough to win an election, negotiate a new deal and hold a second referendum. What if the EU refuse to negotiate and/or extend article 50 any further?
January 31st will soon come around and depending on who wins the election, will require some swift work to stop us "crashing out" with no deal.
What if it is a hung parliament, a week before Christmas with days or maybe weeks of negotiation between two or more parties to form a Government? January 31st doesn't give us much time does it?
They came up with this cunning plan, it's not exactly belt and braces is it?....
Male
Neros1954  Male  Devon 5-Nov-2019 14:11 Message #4761575
I am pro-Labour but anti-Corbyn. A party led by Corbyn would not be a Labour party many would recognise and it would be a sad day for the country. I never thought I would say anything like that.
Labour had the same problem with Blair who also gave a scarcely recognisable Labour party so at least it's nothing new.

Much of what Heirophant said is true. We often see the far left, or even the slightly left, condemn the Conservatives as all being evil, not Johnson but anyone and everyone in the party and it's supporters, whereas you rarely see the Conservatives do the same about Labour as a party just the occasional bad leader like Corbyn.
Extremists will paint the opposition in a bad light even if it means telling lies, exaggerating and quoting rhetoric as fact. The rubbish spoken about the NHS has shown that as much as anything.

I will vote for the LibDems as I see them as the most honest of the main parties and although I don't particularly like their leader I don't feel she has the dishonest and extreme traits of Corbyn or Johnson.
Also tyhey have good policies on the economy, education and cleaning up the environment but these facts are being sidelined by Brexit.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 5-Nov-2019 15:01 Message #4761579
"Man about to be shafted by Tories somehow worried about Marxism."

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/man-about-to-be-shafted-by-tories-somehow-worried-about-marxism-20170508127225?fbclid=IwAR3D82bvBZoCwPrpDjN3WAa3TrIzx3m0kAKBX_Wh631WdXNlP3Kofj8CzAk

I think Ken Loach and Mark Steel are right. Even as they manipulate and rabble rouse, there is a thread of contempt, malice and calculated cruelty running through everything the Tories do but the Establishment knows how to work a crowd and it's odd, isn't it, how the same dog whistle slurs are repeated in the MSM over and over again, year in year out: "Terrorist sympathiser"; "unpatriotic"; "flaky and weak"; "shabby and shambling" "far left" and the most irritating, lazy, Boomer triggering trope of all "taking us back to the Seventies". Even the fact that he's vegetarian and has an allotment is somehow weaponised and used against him yet when you look past the propaganda, none of it stands up scrutiny. When you actually read the policy proposals, you see that they're not very Stalinist at all but are, in fact, moderate, balanced, mainstream social democracy that most people would get behind if they had been drafted by someone else. Quite honestly, even if they were "far left" I think we have more chance of dying on a trolley in a corridor these days than witnessing the proletariat "getting into Das Kapital and seizing the means of production by force."

Like most of us, I've seen a fair few elections come and go and never once voted Labour before the last one but some of us read the manifestos, think about the policies, judge people by their fruits and see through the BS emptied on us from a great height by the vested interests who know that the first thing Corbyn would do is derail their gravy trains. Everything we see and hear in the MSM is calculated to keep the rich and powerful rich and powerful. The likes of JustLyn and I didn't emerge from the womb fully formed "socialists" whatever that means these days; it's just that we've thought things through. For all the accusations of weakness, and everything that's been thrown at him, Jeremy Corbyn is still standing on his principles and his values and I think he deserves a chance to show us what's he's got.

As the guy from Cambridge Analytica said: "It doesn't have to be true, it just has to be believed " Frankly what's really worrying me is what will happen to Corbyn if it's not believed and his popularity continues to rise amongst the youngsters whose minds are more focused on impending armageddon and see Corbyn as their best, let's face it, only chance of making it to our age. JFK, Gill Dando, David Kelly and Robin Cook are dead and Julian Assange is being tortured out of his mind because that's what happens to people who challenge the power base of the deep state forces operating under the radar all over the world. Anyone who thinks our government is independent of the global corporatocracy is naive beyond words. The shadow state in the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia controls anyone who can be bought and liquidates anyone who can't. That's the real threat, not Corbyn's plans to renationalise the railways and do away with the gig economy.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 5-Nov-2019 15:15 Message #4761580
Hierophant, I've voted Conservative (albeit I didn't see what was coming but, like the Soviet constitution, it looked good on paper), Green and stood as a candidate for the Liberal Democrats in the days when they knew their ar$es from their elbows but parties are not ossified, immutable organisations: they change in character according to the agenda of who is in control. I would never have voted for Blair and like JustLyn, I have no particular allegiance to Jeremy Corbyn but, in 2019, with the challenges now facing us, I believe he and his close colleagues have the integrity, values and ideas that Britain needs. The youngsters see this but our generation has a blindspot because the propaganda has successfully anchored in our minds an association between Corbyn and Old Labour of the Seventies - it's mind control.
Male
HotOrWot  Male  Lancashire 5-Nov-2019 15:32 Message #4761582
I am pro-Labour but anti-Corbyn. A party led by Corbyn would not be a Labour party many would recognise and it would be a sad day for the country. I never thought I would say anything like that.
Labour had the same problem with Blair who also gave a scarcely recognisable Labour party so at least it's nothing new.

Much of what Heirophant said is true. We often see the far left, or even the slightly left, condemn the Conservatives as all being evil, not Johnson but anyone and everyone in the party and it's supporters, whereas you rarely see the Conservatives do the same about Labour as a party just the occasional bad leader like Corbyn.
Extremists will paint the opposition in a bad light even if it means telling lies, exaggerating and quoting rhetoric as fact. The rubbish spoken about the NHS has shown that as much as anything.

I will vote for the LibDems as I see them as the most honest of the main parties and although I don't particularly like their leader I don't feel she has the dishonest and extreme traits of Corbyn or Johnson.
Also tyhey have good policies on the economy, education and cleaning up the environment but these facts are being sidelined by Brexit.


Therein lies the problem many who previously voted Labour now feel with Corbyn as leader. He has supported terrorists and anti-semitism and is surrounded by an evil hard core of Stalinists who would like to see this country driven into the ground and then reincarnated as an extreme Socialist society full of nothing. No hope and no future.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 5-Nov-2019 15:33 Message #4761583
It wouldn’t be easy as far too many detest the anti-British behaviour in his past.
What, exactly, has Corbyn done that is anti-British?

There is NO sympathy to terrorists. All his life has fought AGAINST terrorism by meeting people he hopes to influence.

ANYONE who believes Corbyn supports terrorism is being taken in by headlines in media that has an exe to grind. The man can’t win because others castigate him for his ant-war and anti-nuclear weapons which is completely incongruent with supporting terrorists.

That can’t be changed.
Wrong!- unqualified statement.
(Maybe people who insist on reading their own agenda into things can’t change?)

He could do something to stop the anti-Semitism within his party but he never has and he never will (crystal ball gazing again?) I don’t think (think but don’t know again?) he is capable of even making the decision himself.

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2019/02/25/heres-the-concrete-evidence-to-prove-jeremy-corbyn-is-not-antisemitic/
…and if you think the Canary is biased, tell me which details they have published are wrong.

Maybe try a varied selection of public opinion responses to complaints against Corbyn (of which some defending him are Jewish)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/18/antisemitism-labour-and-jeremy-corbyn

Look at the sources mainly attacking Corbyn. Are they unbiased?
Daily Express - Conservative - owned by Reach plc - politically aligned to right wing popularism and historically UKIP
Daily Mail - Conservative - owned by Rupert Murdoch
The Sun - Conservative owned by Rupert Murdoch

He could get rid of his puppet master Momentum and take charge of his own party. But he won’t.
WRONG – tail wagging the dog. Momentum formed to support Corbyn by it’s members so no puppetry involved.

I wonder, have people ever listened to a Momentum speaker or just choose to trust the right wing media or just switched off because decided in advance you have made your mind up?
Female
Andromeda  Female  Berkshire 5-Nov-2019 16:12 Message #4761585
I disagree JustLyn and I’m not a hard liner Conservative or someone who is gullible in reading what’s in the press. No surprise that you are here singing his praises.
It’s not just the right wing media but media right across the board which has reported Corbyn’s collusion with our enemies. Press release after press release has reported what he has said and photographed him with his “friends”. Even his own party members are embarrassed by his friendships with terrorists and his lack of any desire to stop the anti semitism in the Labour Party. Anyone objecting is quickly and quietly ejected from the party by Momentum.
I don’t like Johnson but I detest Corbyn.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 5-Nov-2019 17:33 Message #4761591
Andromeda,

It's all old toast.

And if you are not surprised I pop up to defend what Corbyn stands for, why do I pop up?
I have not initiated anything, I merely respond these days.
For every pop up I make, others have popped up before me lol.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 5-Nov-2019 18:39 Message #4761595
You can tell alot about people from the company they keep. Yanis Varoufakis, the late Harry Leslie Smith and Stephen Hawking, Ken Loach, Mark Steel, John Pilger - all people of stature and integrity who support or supported Corbyn.

Meanwhile Rees-Mogg thinks people who burned to death in their own homes "lacked common sense", a guy with brain tumours is apparently fit for work, a tweet showing a cardboard sign held up by a homeless veteran begging people to vote Labour because he can't is doing the rounds, Tories admit the fracking ban is temporary and Tory candidates have been told not to sign pledges on the NHS or the climate emergency.

I wonder how many in this conversation are on Twitter or read the Canary. That's where to look if you want to know what's really going on not the BBC or the Murdoch press.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 5-Nov-2019 18:47 Message #4761596
"Hard core of Stalinists"? Do you know how ridiculous that comment is? Do you know anything about Stalin other than what you've read in a tabloid ?
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 5-Nov-2019 18:53 Message #4761597
On the news tonight how much the need for food banks has increased, reportedly due to the delay in getting Universal Credit.

I thought UC was a good idea, and fair enough, had teething problems, but what government in it's right mind would expect people to wait, initially 6 weeks, now 5 weeks for their payments, especially when rents or mortgages are 4 weekly.
The thing I don't get, is how come it is taking so long to correct the mistakes. The Conservative Government have now had several years to learn and be more sensible, but they are not, they actually justify it.

Then there are those that think food banks are a great solution rather than the consequence of the problem.

I know there are some, but right now I cannot think of any positive policies, and I am trying to remember the few that do exist.

But there is no trouble listing the negative consequences, but I won't list them.

Female
wonderoushen  Female  Gwynedd 5-Nov-2019 18:57 Message #4761598
How old does toast have to be before its binned? Seriously though, how far in the past does something have to be before its stupid to rake it up again? Corbyn has met lots of people that to many are terrorists, whatever his intentions were, if he was trying to find out the truth for himself or whether he supported thier cause, these photos are a stick to beat him with.

The Welsh secretary is in trouble about how long ago he knew an aide messed up a rape trial so badly the judge threw him out of court, this aide was standing as a canadidate for the Tories, he may still be, I'm not sure. But the Welsh Secretary when challenged said he only became aware of it within the last couple of months when theres an email from 2 years ago telling him all about the collapsed trial and his aides part in it.

JRM,'s in trouble for insulting the intelligence of Grenfell families, saying that common sense would tell you to get out of a burning building. He may have meant as he later explained in an appology that he wouldn't trust the Fire Service telling him to stay put, but I do think it was an ill considered thing to say at the begining. I don't think any of us really know what we'd do in a similar situation, you're instinct is to get out and the advice to stay put seems counterintuitive, but if the building is constructed properly thats probably the best advice and you don't know where the fire is situated, if its in a stairwell then trying to run down it will make things worse. The problem for JRM is that people will believe that he meant Grenfell families lacked common sense because he seems to be someone stepped straight out of a Jeeves and Wooster story. People will also have seen him lounging sleepily on the HoC front benches which many will see as contemptuous behaviour, if you wanted to design someone who embodied the phrase 'upper class twit' you'd robably come up with JRM, he dosen't exactly resonate with most ordinary people.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 5-Nov-2019 19:18 Message #4761603
Too many half wit politicians have no common sense, JRM is certainly a half wit.

Todays campaign highlights 5th November 2019.

Lib Dems launch campaign, they will scrap Brexit.
Labour will negotiate another deal, and then have another referendum.

Farage visits Bolsover, a safe Labour seat since it was formed in 1950.
Big mistake today was JRM, makes himself a liabity for the Conservative party.

Got to mention Farage's trousers, he must have visited a charity shop!
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 5-Nov-2019 20:50 Message #4761609
Never thought I would find myself Googling "Nigel Farage's trousers."
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 5-Nov-2019 21:00 Message #4761610
I couldn't survive this Government without the Mash

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/the-conservative-candidates-guide-to-the-unemployed-20191105190449?fbclid=IwAR0W48jABo7LQQnvlL0EP3PjBqaWMkdyVF9ZPRQfwMoagEXjXNxVjdVkHtw
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 5-Nov-2019 21:15 Message #4761612
Upper class twit...lol

Absolute gold.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 5-Nov-2019 22:05 Message #4761615
"I wonder how many in this conversation are on Twitter or read the Canary."

Ah yes the Canary, I remember our good friend Michaelt copied and pasted a load of socialist claptrap from there a while ago, enough said.
Yep I'm on twitter, it's like MSE but with millions more screwed up people with an axe to grind....
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 6-Nov-2019 07:39 Message #4761632
"Farage visits Bolsover, a safe Labour seat since it was formed in 1950."

Hmm it's very noticeable that Farage is making a big thing on twitter about targeting Labour, and Labour alone. Maybe this is part of some plan or agreement with the Tories - him not standing and going after Labour voters only?..
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 6-Nov-2019 11:41 Message #4761653
Classic -

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/05/tories-unrepentant-about-doctored-video-of-keir-starmer-tv-appearance?CMP=sharebtnfb&fbclid=IwAR06ptGkIFSDxWlmfvH8CTw35S8vWCyA1eOG5ipR3Nj_xtHs04gjIWhXI


"The Conservatives have misleadingly edited a video of the Labour MP Sir Keir Starmer to give the impression he failed to answer a question on the party’s Brexit position during an interview with ITV’s Good Morning Britain.

In the Tory version of the video, produced by the party for its social media channels, Starmer is shown unable to speak after being asked about Labour’s position on the EU, with his face appearing under the caption “Labour has no plan for Brexit”.

In reality, the shadow Brexit secretary did provide a lengthy answer regarding his discussions with other EU countries over the past three years and insisted: “A customs union and single market alignment and protection of workers’ rights and environmental rights and consumer rights is something that can be negotiated.”

Good Morning Britain presenter Piers Morgan said that Starmer’s answer may have been “unconvincing” but the way the video was edited by the Tories was “misleading and unfair”. "

Keir Starmer is a class act and a likely successor to Corbyn.
Female
The_Jewess_Rebecca  Female  Herefordshire 6-Nov-2019 12:59 Message #4761659
It's emerged that Rob Maugham QC received a message from a senior BBC journalist admitting that "coded negative imagery" is used to smear Corbyn by portraying him as old, stupid or unpatriotic.

"All the 'another difficult day' stuff and the 'visual grammar on TV' screams OLD MAN OLD MAN OLD MAN . "

Maugham said the conversation was conducted entirely in writing and was with a BBC journalist “whose seniority and sphere of work is such that it could not sensibly be suggested that they are not properly qualified to speak on such matters”.

The journalist talked explicitly and unambiguously about how criticisms of Corbyn that the BBC could not voice were deliberately coded into imagery. - The London Economic December 2018

If you think Corbyn is a traitor, an idiot or a danger to Britain, you've been brainwashed by a handful of foreign billionnaires.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 6-Nov-2019 13:11 Message #4761660
Ahh that's why Corbyn is specifically targeting billionaires?
Why stop there, most people don't need more than a £million, blimey to poor people like me a million quid would be the stuff of dreams. Why not tax them really heavily?

Let's be honest Labour's Brexit policy is a lesson in fence-sitting isn't it? Poor old Sir Keir Starmer must struggle to keep a straight face when he tries to explain it.

PS: Can one of you Corbyn lovers please tell Jeremy to stick his hand in his pocket and buy some glasses that fit? He will gladly spend lots of my money if he becomes PM, so why not get in training by spending some of his first?...
Male
Colonel_Blink  Male  Buckinghamshire 6-Nov-2019 13:19 Message #4761661
If you think Corbyn is a traitor, an idiot or a danger to Britain, you've been brainwashed by a handful of foreign billionnaires.

I disagree and perhaps you have been brainwashed. I believe Corbyn has behaved in a treacherous way throughout his life. He is certainly not an idiot but him and his mob are a danger to Britain. He is incapable of honesty or making a decision and he should never be leader.


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