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Male
tumbleweed  Male  Gloucestershire 17-Mar-2019 21:33 Message #4737052
If there is another referendum, then Remain should not be an option.

Remain have lost. They have been beaten. They have been knocked out. Put it how you want, but Remain is dead and buried. No more.

Any new referendum should just involve options to leave... The big 2 options?...or maybe 3?...maybe some other specifics in them. Whatever. But only exit options. Full stop.

And then the winner of that should be final. That is it. Nobody to change it...then it needs implementing. With no further messing about. From anyone. at all.

The old remainers would be able to vote as per normal, only there would be no longer a remain option, so they can either abstain, or vote for whichever exit option they think best. Some will act grown up and vote accordingly, some will throw their toys out of the pram and refuse to vote. That is up to them.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 17-Mar-2019 21:38 Message #4737054
It would be more democratic to have a 2nd vote because many people have stated, now they have more information, they would have voted differently. This applies to those who voted remain as well as leave.

Since so many people realise the complexities of their vote, its reasonable to clarify what people want after having time to reconsider.

Also, wasn't there something about the referendum not being binding?
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 17-Mar-2019 21:38 Message #4737055
@tumbleweed
This is a strange type of democracy that you seem to be advocating. It's the type of thing which operates in one-party states or military dictatorships.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 17-Mar-2019 21:42 Message #4737056
Quote from Wiki

"Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign."
UK EU Membership Referendum: 2016
UK AV Referendum: 2011
UK EC Membership Referendum: 1975
Referendums in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 17-Mar-2019 21:42 Message #4737057
Since Mrs May seems to be having THREE goes at forcing thru' her proposals - which breaks all the precedents in
Erskine May: Parliamentary Practice,
the referendum should have all options open.
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 17-Mar-2019 21:44 Message #4737058
Lol,

The paradox is that those who vote leave, have voted for a sovereign state.

Don't you think that funny?
Male
tumbleweed  Male  Gloucestershire 17-Mar-2019 21:49 Message #4737060
not really g2b. When they do the voting for party leader, the losers drop out, and the vote then continues until a 'winner' comes through.

Remain have lost. Simple as.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 17-Mar-2019 21:53 Message #4737062
This referendum is "politically" binding. The pledge was made by Cameron, and 'politicians' are obliged to carry it out. Referendums can be made legally binding, you merely write it into law, its a process in law.
Male
barney  Male  Surrey 17-Mar-2019 22:51 Message #4737066
Bewildered,

You are wasting your breath asking remainer's why they want to stay in the EU and what's so great about the EU as they never give you a answer.
Male
NotHermit  Male  Derbyshire 17-Mar-2019 23:55 Message #4737068
I think its just the remainers on mse that are like that Barney..
Most remainers I know are shocked at what the government is doing.
They (remainers), may not like the result, but they still want democracy.

It was May's deal or no deal, but they voted against no deal.
They also took over 2 years to rule out no deal.
They are not expecting to cancel surely?
What do they think will happen if they do?
The Euro elections would be more enjoyable than the 2016 referendum.
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 18-Mar-2019 06:57 Message #4737070
I don't think people are shocked at what the Government are doing, I think they are shocked at what Parliament are doing.
Parliament rejected May's deal, they rejected no deal and they rejected a second referendum, the only thing Parliament want is an extension.
To do what, exactly?
We are told, May is a staunch remainer, yet she is the only one who has been consistently pushing for us to actually leave, either with her deal or no deal.
Corbyn, we are told, is a staunch leaver and yet he has rejected every option to leave.
No wonder we are in a mess...
Female
Bewildered  Female  Norfolk 18-Mar-2019 08:21 Message #4737075
So are the remainers happy with the LISBON TREATY?

Simple question...
Male
Hierophant  Male  East Anglia 18-Mar-2019 08:41 Message #4737076
Of course, to be fair to May and Corbyn - as Lynn says, people out in the country have changed their minds, so why not MP's too?
Maybe May is now a true leaver believer and Corbyn is a remainer...
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 18-Mar-2019 09:42 Message #4737077
barney,

I'm not an avid remainer. I was tempted to leave and don't mind if we leave.

On the other hand, I must admit, had I voted leave I had never been aware of all the complexities involved in how it would affect many types of business, or some friends who live abroad.

My reason for leaving was in hope of a better and more free leadership who could advance on the EU laws, but in reality, it appears those in Government keen on leaving want to reduce the UK standards.

My reasons to leave were nothing to do with immigration, though I am keen on sovereignty, but to do better, not worse, and this is where my optimism runs out.

Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 18-Mar-2019 09:50 Message #4737078
Hierophant,

Corbyn (you hear) is a staunch Leaver.

No, he voted Remain. I was very interested in how he would vote and was surprised, when I heard his reasons, he was virtually the same as mine. I was tempted to vote to leave (As I was) but felt that after 40 years of the Common Market (that he objected to then), we might as well make the best of it and stay in the EU and fight from within for better standards.

Since then, and having experience with some negotiations, he might have been tempted to change his vote but he doesn't want a second referendum. One of his MP's whose name I cannot recall was interviewed on the split in Labour. She, like me, sees Corbyn as only supporting a potential referendum because most Labour MP support one. Being the democrat he professes to be, he reluctantly will go with the majority, hence why a second referendum is still on the metaphoric table.
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 18-Mar-2019 10:19 Message #4737080
Once upon a time, a couple and their 2 early teen children decided that they were going to go GREEN, sell their car and buy bicycles.
Having sold their car for a lot less than they thought they'd get from the dealer, they took the bus, when it eventually arrived, and found a bicycle dealer.
Unfortunately, all that was left were traded in, old and rusty, heavy metal, Sturmey-Archer hub-geared bikes.
"Don't worry" said the shop-owner "there's another bicycle shop about 5 miles away - no time at all in your car."
An hour and 3 buses later, the family found the next bike shop - closed. And it had started to rain. ...

Counting chickens
Critical Path Analysis
Gantt Charts
Look before you leap
Always do a recce
Don't trust Foxy Fellows promising that they've already baked 40 pies in the sky.


Muttered the two children
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 18-Mar-2019 11:19 Message #4737083
Love it!!
Female
JustLyn  Female  Cheshire 18-Mar-2019 11:26 Message #4737084
I bought an e-bike and a hybrid compact estate.

Though sadly, probably due to reduced police on the beat and free youth services, my commute to work on the Fallowfield Way by bike is high risk mugging by teenagers.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 18-Mar-2019 11:27 Message #4737085
EU is not keen on extension. The EU has other problems to deal with. Like the growing far right populist element, nationalist and euro-sceptics expected to do well in their upcoming elections. Expected in fact to gain enough seats to influence their legislative power. Though I find that difficult to believe. Final decisions lie with the Council, parliament is …. incidental! Unbelievable, what a system.

We just want the trade, not the politics. But they won't let you have one without the other.
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 18-Mar-2019 11:40 Message #4737086
The Lisbon Treaty. I don't think remainers could have read it. Either that or they like being nodding dogs to a higher order, and forget the UK altogether. Ve do as ve are told, no argument! :)
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 18-Mar-2019 14:18 Message #4737088
Just as we are nodding dogs to the higher orders who have sold off most of the country and what's built on it to
* other states/Governments
* money launderers
* more Mafia groups than you can shake a Parliamentary Mace at.
* Russian OilyGarks
* Head & Hand severing oil dictators.

Given the control that these external forces have over the totality of our national infrastructure, we have little if any say in our own destiny.
Almost every other day yet another major pyramid provider of "Out-sourced" services goes bust, leaving CHAOS and massive debt in their wake.
Now "our" motor car manufacturing capability is being parcelled up ready to be posted, via the Privatized Queen's Head Postal Profit maker, to somewhere in the EU = Slovakia, Magyar, Estonia, ...

Rub a dub dub,
Four fools in a tub,
And who do you think they be?
The Leavers of England & Scotland & N Ireland & Wales
Turn them out afore they drown us at sea.
Male
barney  Male  Surrey 18-Mar-2019 15:59 Message #4737089
We never saw a Police Officer in the village where I lived and grew up and there was no such thing as youth services.

I could cycle around the village and local towns without any fear whatsoever of being mugged,
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 18-Mar-2019 16:40 Message #4737090
The EU will go down before this country does. Watch the Euro, its days are numbered. Why is Italy in recession? Are we expected to bail them out, while homeless die on the streets and there's not enough police to stop the stabbings. Germany's largest bank has gone down, has that been on the BBC?

What do we get for the 39b Withdrawal agreement? More talks, no assurances, no deals, no promises, nothing concrete, only promises of more "talk".

Plus hey would have N. Ireland in their rule book, subject to their regs and directives how convenient since the DUP is in coalition with the sitting government. Talks would go on indefinitely, so corporate business, multinational banks and the wealth elitist platform can get their BMWs and champagne free of tarrif.

No thanks.
Male
Good2BWith  Male  West Yorkshire 18-Mar-2019 17:24 Message #4737091
I could cycle around the village and local towns without any fear whatsoever of being mugged,
---
Probably 'coz the word "mugged" hadn't been imported from US(A)?
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex 18-Mar-2019 20:58 Message #4737107
Well, just to be pedantic, which I rarely am, but this one's a sitting duck ...

"The origin is unclear, and earlier than any form of mug. It likely originates from a surname: The surname Muggins is well attested in the names of various characters presented as foolish or easily tricked in 18th- and 19th-cent. popular and comic writing, especially as the name of an exciseman."

Mugged


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