Conversation Religion and Spirituality
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What does the story of Adam and Eve

teach us?

Male
Timmee  Male  Hampshire
26-Mar-2018 11:16 Message #4714115
Putting myself in the shoes of your detractors for moment, Jeff, I suppose it could be argued that your humorous remarks tend to be closer to the George Eliot end of the spectrum than the Groucho Marx end. Sometimes less is more.

If some poor MSE member has to cook the evening meal or process some images in Photoshop (random examples of things people might be doing) then they might well end up with hungry families and rubbish photos - having spent the last 3 hours pursuing your labrynthine references and lines of thought.

PS. Loved the poem- hadn't heard of it before.
PPS. Middlemarch and Mill On The Floss are two of my favourite novels.
Female
nellieredshoes  Female  West Yorkshire
26-Mar-2018 12:45 Message #4714118
Eh up! You lot know some stuff.
Male
Timmee  Male  Hampshire
26-Mar-2018 13:49 Message #4714122
Eeee Nellie - Ah gnaw urrr aright grand lass! x

Ps. Have you seen my latest portrait of Bruv (the notorious) on FB?
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
27-Mar-2018 11:23 Message #4714160
I'm still waiting for an email from the Jehovah's Witnesses. I might go to their meeting on 31 March, which I expect will be about Easter. Their website includes "We believe that our decision to abstain from celebrating Easter is based firmly on the Bible, which encourages the use of "practical wisdom and thinking ability" rather than simply following human traditions". I would like many more of their beliefs to be based on "practical wisdom and thinking ability" excluding traditions rather than on the bible, but I doubt that they'll follow me!


Nellie,

Huge amounts of stuff I don't know. But I am lucky to have interest in the world enough and time to look up some statements from non-coy sources.

For example, many of us have heard the story about Walter Raleigh putting his cloak in a puddle for Queen Elizabeth I. (He should have given her a lift on his Raleigh bicycle.) I didn't know where that story came from or whether it was true. I think that it is good to consider the sources of people's beliefs, (which are often "holy" books), so I looked up the cloak story and on 24-Mar-18 at 15:14 I quoted it for anybody interested.
Thomas Fuller was born in 1608, which was 5 years after Elizabeth's death, so he wasn't an eye witness.


Timmee,

Readers don't have to follow up my references to understand what I write, but I like to give background.

I've never read any George Eliot. As her gender was ambivalent, I wonder if she was related to George Sand or Georgy Girl or Boy George!
Male
Timmee  Male  Hampshire
29-Mar-2018 10:21 Message #4714217
A cornucopia of Victorian literature, feminism, transgender issues, and novels about religious fascism, mind-control, and the maintenance of institutional power.

Jeff:
Your background knowledge of Victorian literary figures far exceeds mine.
I hadn't previously heard of George Eliot's gender dysphoria issues. I did hear that there were such suspicions about the 3 Victorian novelist brothers - Currer, Acton, & Ellis Bell. However, after extensive investigations by famous Scotland Yard detective Mr. Whicher, it was found that they were indeed 3 gruff Northern ex coal miners as they had always claimed. The investigation into the background of the famous literary brothers was so comprehensive that at time one contemporary newspaper described it as "A Bronte-saurus of an investigation."
Boom Boom ...Groan!

I'd have a hard time chosing between Jane Eyre and Middlemarch. I think you should show Charity and Mercy (Pecksniff- ha ha) and stop bothering the poor Jehovah's Witnesses. Instead, you should sit down and read both both novels.

If had to guess, I'd say that the delay in the Jehovah's Witnesses replying to your query is probably attributable to their having decided to prioritise the maintenance of their institutional narrative over any inclinations they might have towards the free-thinking & the pursuit intellectual curiosity for its own sake. That is the position is the one adopted by The Majesterium in Philip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
1-Apr-2018 09:04 Message #4714358
I'm not aware that George Eliot was unhappy about being a woman. She wrote under a man's name for other reasons.

I have never read any of the authors or books that you mention, nor most other Victorian classics. I would love to do so but many other interesting things attract my attention. So your knowledge about them is much greater than mine.

Last night I went to the Jehovah's Witnesses meeting, and the leader talked to the packed congregation for about 45 minutes about Jesus's sacrifice. Wafers and wine were passed to everybody, but not for consumption. He said that he will email me when he gets time. I didn't have the opportunity to ask any questions.
Male
tsunamiwarrior  Male  Hertfordshire
1-Apr-2018 10:07 Message #4714363
Maybe you should broaden your horizons Jeff rather than be obsessed with the bible. You might find life far more interesting.
Male
Timmee  Male  Hampshire
9-Apr-2018 17:01 Message #4714857
Desert Island Discs conundrum:

Would you keep the collected works of your favourite Victorian author OR The Bible?

I'm making a wild guess that Jeff and I would not reply in the same way.
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
12-Apr-2018 22:34 Message #4715013
I haven't yet received a response from the Jehovah's Witnesses. I wonder whether or not they are pondering it.


Tsunamiwarrior: "Maybe you should broaden your horizons Jeff rather than be obsessed with the bible"

For years my profile has listed numerous interests. In various threads I have referred to a wide variety of sources, as well as giving my own opinions. I'm saddened by the small amount of curiosity expressed by many in MSE.
I am not obsessed with the bible, but I am interested in the psychology of people who believe in the bible or qur'an or other "holy" books, and I hope that by quoting from what they believe in, they might see that at least some parts of them are nonsense. I'm also interested in aspects of people's belief in God who don't believe "holy" books.

On many occasions I have asked you a variety of questions closely related to what you have posted, who claim to believe in God but not in "holy" books, clearly expressed as questions and with question marks and in bold and reminded you, but usually you have given feeble or false excuses not to address them.
(For example, in thread "Was sex one of God's mistakes?" http://www.midsummerseve.com/fora/thread.aspx?threadid=189989&page=3 onwards on 10-Dec-17 at 18:07, 13-Dec-17 at 11:01, 18-Dec-17 at 10:30 and 01-Jan-18 at 20:39.)
(That thread also indicates some of my interests in science by giving numerous corrections.)
Male
Jeff  Male  East Sussex
12-Apr-2018 22:37 Message #4715014
Timmee: "Would you keep the collected works of your favourite Victorian author OR The Bible?"

I haven't read many Victorian authors, but possibly my favourite one is Lewis Carroll / Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. His books about Alice are beautifully expressed and some of his poems are wonderful. He also wrote about maths and logic - including a paradox used in a Goon Show (details on request). He invented a primitive Scrabble game, so I could use its letters to write a book!

Another favourite book is Three Men in a Boat by Jerome K. Jerome (1889), which has lovely changes of mood. But it doesn't have enough pages to merit frequent re-reading for years on a desert island.

However, I think I would prefer the bible, although much of it is as fictional as the Alice books, because the bible has many stories by many authors and its language is superb.

But I'm open to other Victorian books instead, preferably having a wide range of facts and some humour.
Male
MrQuiet  Male  Northamptonshire
12-Apr-2018 23:16 Message #4715021
However, I think I would prefer the bible, although much of it is as fictional as the Alice books, because the bible has many stories by many authors and its language is superb

A good yarn but well written.
Female
Addie123  Female  Leicestershire
10-Jan-2019 01:32 Message #4733106
Don't you think Adam had enough of eve's pudding.
Female
Addie123  Female  Leicestershire
10-Jan-2019 01:34 Message #4733107
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Male
badman  Male  Suffolk
10-Jan-2019 07:20 Message #4733111
You can never have enough of Eves pudding. ;-)

Male
persona_non_grata  Male  North London
10-Jan-2019 08:09 Message #4733112
No nuts!
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
10-Jan-2019 15:26 Message #4733147
Doubt if the story was literal. Beware of the serpent of temptation? Forbidden fruit is there for a reason? Written by a man I expect.
Female
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
10-Jan-2019 21:47 Message #4733171
I call my cat no-nuts. He is indeed nut free. Doesn't stop him acting the prat at times though.
Female
Victoriana11  Female  Buckinghamshire
11-Jan-2019 20:27 Message #4733211
well, if Eve was made from Adam's rib, why arent men still doing it...
Female
BunnyGirl  Female  Buckinghamshire
12-Jan-2019 07:45 Message #4733220
Nobody really knows if the bible is true or not but it is up to the individual whether they care to believe or not. Afterall everyone to their own. But whatever people think do not try to change their minds as maybe it makes them have a reason in life to carry on in this world.
Male
walkingman  Male  South Yorkshire
4-Jan-2020 01:25 Message #4767300
The Adam and Eve story holds up equally as well as the great flood and a floating zoo containing polar bears, kangaroos, and penguins. of which there were only two of each, apart from the other bit in the bible where it says there were seven.
Female
NoSaint  Female  Devon
4-Jan-2020 08:21 Message #4767303
BunnyGirl Female Buckinghamshire 12-Jan-2019 07:45 Message #4733220
Nobody really knows if the bible is true or not but it is up to the individual whether they care to believe or not. Afterall everyone to their own. But whatever people think do not try to change their minds as maybe it makes them have a reason in life to carry on in this world.


A good understanding.
Male
SQL  Male  Devon
4-Jan-2020 21:27 Message #4767356
So much could be said and some important issues still left unearthed.

I think BunnyGirl made a good point in her post.

From the King James translation of the Bible:
Genesis 1:27 “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

Now there was direct interference from the Court of St. James in the work of the translators for this version of the Bible. You must also bear in mind the scripts from which our current (King James - KJ) Bible was produced were themselves translations. Thus the probability of the KJ Bible being a valid and true account of the original writings is infinitesimally small.

"And man created God in his own image." The alternative is? Could anyone accept a God that did not look significantly anthropomorphic? Can man (us) really accept and welcome an intelligence that does not look like Homo Sapiens and maybe has an IQ (not the best analogy but it'll do) of 1,000,000?

SQL
Female
Gilpin  Female  Middlesex
6-Feb-2020 15:49 Message #4769937
That God, if he exists, demands total obedience. Or out you go.

The old testament god, presumably. The bible they say is allegorical. A bit of an authoritarian rulership. I've always wondered if Jesus is really the son of god, his philosophy is so completely different.
Female
Minnie-the-Minx  Female  Hertfordshire
7-Feb-2020 15:54 Message #4770001
On the other hand, it's not that unusual for offspring to reject the values of their parents.
Male
Colonel_Blink  Male  Buckinghamshire
7-Feb-2020 16:19 Message #4770003
If Jesus has shared the exact same views as his Dad I would be suspicious that it was just a made up story.


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